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More Awakening in April....

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2 hours ago, whiteshark17 said:

You would have thought they had looked at the trouble with the first run of Dicemasters and realized demand would be very, very high. Not to mention it is Star Wars. I think groups like Team Covenent might be part if the problem too. How many boxes are they buying to sell these complete sets they offer? The lack of supply has lead to hyper inflation on the second hand market. Print more product and get it here pronto.

 

Think about this statement for a second.  If TC would have not done Saga Sets there would be more sealed product available, that's a given.  But everyone that bought a Saga Set would have been in the market for sealed product instead.  So you've increased supply, but you'be also proportionally increased demand.  Arguably you've actually increased demand more then supply as it takes an individual more boxes to create a Saga Set equivalent then it does per Saga Set when you're making hundreds of them like TC did.

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On 2/21/2017 at 10:24 PM, agentc13 said:

From what I have heard from store owners/distributors, FFG made many times what was pre-ordered by the stores when Awakenings was in production (i.e. they did their homework and made more than what they showed the demand to be at the time).  Once it released and demand was shown to be much higher than expected they did what they could (which wasn't a whole lot since they were already going on set #2).  I know many stores blamed FFG for not making enough product when they failed to pre-order any when it was first being printed (and what FFG based their production on).  Who's fault is that?  I can't say it all rests on FFG, although they are not free from blame either.   

5 stores within 1 hour and a 1/2 of me. Table sizes 40/20/20/5/2 virtually no SWD. All of these stores tell me they got very little product.

Talking to the owner of the 40 table store. The pre orders were small, but he received them all, as well as 2 boxes and a handful of starters, not equal to his total order. Then they got one box of boosters right before Xmas. 

He doesn't blame FFG for print run, exactly. What he said was FFG does a poor job of estimating period. He attributed this one to FFG making starters that people regularly bought multiple of. For example, Arkham Horror LCG, and SWD. Then FFG has no real good idea how many individuals bought one, or two, or even three. 

Look at SWD. They chose to put the light saber in the starter only. This pushes ppl to buy more than one starter. 

The second thing he said was FFG failed to provide ANY flare for his store. No posters, banners, etc. basically ppl his hand made sign said check out SWD on YouTube. 

Third he hated the roll out. This is a store that plays magic 5 days a week, with pickup games everyday. As well as a weekly X wing night. He said if the roll out boxed event had been a reasonably priced, with some exclusive artwork, some door prize, he wagered he could have gotten 25-30 people to do the event. As it was, no event. And virtually zero regular SWD players. 

This was similar to a talk I had with one of the 20 table stores. He said he personally loves destiny, but runs zero events or schedules at his store!?!? 

ALL of these stores run MTG everyday. 

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1 hour ago, ScottieATF said:

 

Think about this statement for a second.  If TC would have not done Saga Sets there would be more sealed product available, that's a given.  But everyone that bought a Saga Set would have been in the market for sealed product instead.  So you've increased supply, but you'be also proportionally increased demand.  Arguably you've actually increased demand more then supply as it takes an individual more boxes to create a Saga Set equivalent then it does per Saga Set when you're making hundreds of them like TC did.

This assumes that everyone who bought the Saga sets would have bought an equivalent amount of random packs. I don't think that's a given.  It also ignores that what it took to build the sets was not even, and that excess has vanished down the TC black hole when it could have been used to spread basic needs for local groups.

There is pretty much zero doubt that online retailers especially have been happily gouging the singles market while most people struggle to find any product at all.  There's a ton of fail to go around in this bit of FUBAR, but no part of the supply chain for this game has done the least bit of good by their customers.

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7 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

 

Think about this statement for a second.  If TC would have not done Saga Sets there would be more sealed product available, that's a given.  But everyone that bought a Saga Set would have been in the market for sealed product instead.  So you've increased supply, but you'be also proportionally increased demand.  Arguably you've actually increased demand more then supply as it takes an individual more boxes to create a Saga Set equivalent then it does per Saga Set when you're making hundreds of them like TC did.

You think everyone would have bought that many? How many booster boxes is that goimg to take? 5? 10? Not to mention they are also selling individual cards/dice still and on top of that are also offering subscriptions for booster boxes. Lets say it takes 5 boxes to pull a full set. If they had only 20 orders for the saga set that is 100 boxes of boosters. Add on the subscriptions and the individual orders and you can see this number bumping up quite a bit. I dont blame them per say but you would think FFG would have been able to see what they were doing and combine it with the Dicemasters thing and produced a decent first run.

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9 hours ago, whiteshark17 said:

You would have thought they had looked at the trouble with the first run of Dicemasters and realized demand would be very, very high. Not to mention it is Star Wars. I think groups like Team Covenent might be part if the problem too. How many boxes are they buying to sell these complete sets they offer? The lack of supply has lead to hyper inflation on the second hand market. Print more product and get it here pronto.

The math already proves that TC had nothing to do with the shortage. Best case scenario of not pulling Legendary dupes, one would have to open three booster boxes for a full set. There's no way TC was able to do that multiple times to equate to the amount of SS they sold. The math and profit just isn't there. Likely, they bought the complete sets from FFG direct as part of some deal. Which means zero impact on booster boxes.

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5 hours ago, Hawkman2000 said:

The math already proves that TC had nothing to do with the shortage. Best case scenario of not pulling Legendary dupes, one would have to open three booster boxes for a full set. There's no way TC was able to do that multiple times to equate to the amount of SS they sold. The math and profit just isn't there. Likely, they bought the complete sets from FFG direct as part of some deal. Which means zero impact on booster boxes.

Except that now you are taking actual product that could be put into boosters and removing it from that supply. Thevwhole thing is just baffling though. Name me a Star Wars FFG product that didnt over perform the projections. We are three months out from launch and unless you were all in on Day One or willing to throw $100's at single cards you cant enjoy the game. I was skeptical but played with a friend and loved it. Now I cant get a starter set and have just pieced together a few boosters because some guy couldnt figure out Star Wars+Dice+Collectable Game=Money Printer

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13 hours ago, whiteshark17 said:

Except that now you are taking actual product that could be put into boosters and removing it from that supply. Thevwhole thing is just baffling though. Name me a Star Wars FFG product that didnt over perform the projections. We are three months out from launch and unless you were all in on Day One or willing to throw $100's at single cards you cant enjoy the game. I was skeptical but played with a friend and loved it. Now I cant get a starter set and have just pieced together a few boosters because some guy couldnt figure out Star Wars+Dice+Collectable Game=Money Printer

what this guy said

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23 hours ago, whiteshark17 said:

Except that now you are taking actual product that could be put into boosters and removing it from that supply. Thevwhole thing is just baffling though. Name me a Star Wars FFG product that didnt over perform the projections. We are three months out from launch and unless you were all in on Day One or willing to throw $100's at single cards you cant enjoy the game. I was skeptical but played with a friend and loved it. Now I cant get a starter set and have just pieced together a few boosters because some guy couldnt figure out Star Wars+Dice+Collectable Game=Money Printer

Team Covenant and saga sets are a part of the supply, not separate from it. People who bought saga sets bought into the game just as much as people who bought booster boxes.

People need to be patient. It seems some people contend that Destiny is worth playing, but not worth waiting to play. It's not like everybody who gets into the game has to get in the first 4 months after its release. How are new players going to get into the game 2 years from now? Did everybody that plays MtG today buy in within a year of alpha being released? 

 

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On 2/20/2017 at 10:23 PM, Keigi said:

Remember, "The people playing the game are not complaining on the fourms."

Agree 100%.

Remember, "The people playing the game have product" - at least enough to build decks with.  All local retailers here have strict purchasing limits on # of boosters whenever they get some.

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I own at least 2 of every card. No stores within 1.5 hours of me plays with any regularity yet. That's the thing, it's not just dependent on some getting product, it has to have a big community, or it'll just be a side thing for most places. To my local stores it looks like a side game, GOT like. A situation where they don't run events, don't have regular nights. X-wing, Armada, now Arkham Horror has more followers at these stores than SWD. 

As a result, I considering moving on and finding something else to play. I have pre order for set of SOR too. 

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6 hours ago, Viper1dragon said:

I own at least 2 of every card. No stores within 1.5 hours of me plays with any regularity yet. That's the thing, it's not just dependent on some getting product, it has to have a big community, or it'll just be a side thing for most places. To my local stores it looks like a side game, GOT like. A situation where they don't run events, don't have regular nights. X-wing, Armada, now Arkham Horror has more followers at these stores than SWD. 

As a result, I considering moving on and finding something else to play. I have pre order for set of SOR too. 

Sounds like you need to start organizing some play nights or days at a LGS since you have enough for more than one to play. I mean someone has to get the ball rolling, why not you? 

I live in a small city of about 400,000 that's been hit hard by the shortage. We have a couple of LGS and I have multiple opportunities to play each week even though I only attend oqnce a week. These opportunities to play exist not because our stores are holding events, but because players with product organize them or put notices in the local Destiny Facebook page.

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On 2/27/2017 at 10:22 AM, Starbane said:

Sounds like you need to start organizing some play nights or days at a LGS since you have enough for more than one to play. I mean someone has to get the ball rolling, why not you? 

I live in a small city of about 400,000 that's been hit hard by the shortage. We have a couple of LGS and I have multiple opportunities to play each week even though I only attend oqnce a week. These opportunities to play exist not because our stores are holding events, but because players with product organize them or put notices in the local Destiny Facebook page.

I do. I've talked to two store owners, and shown up to show off the game. Your city is actually bigger than mine, and we have 5 stores here! The reaction is, hey that looks cool I might play if I could ever even buy a single starter! Lol Followed by then trying to get my to play MGT, which I use to play. 

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On 2/27/2017 at 7:22 AM, Starbane said:

Sounds like you need to start organizing some play nights or days at a LGS since you have enough for more than one to play. I mean someone has to get the ball rolling, why not you? 

How exactly do you grow a community when nobody can buy anything?  You run a demo day, you show off the game, the new player says "This is great!" then you say "Awesome!  Keep an eye on the preorders, the next set is two months out and it's already showing sold out most everywhere but you might be able to get some more of this set come June..."

 

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8 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

How exactly do you grow a community when nobody can buy anything?  You run a demo day, you show off the game, the new player says "This is great!" then you say "Awesome!  Keep an eye on the preorders, the next set is two months out and it's already showing sold out most everywhere but you might be able to get some more of this set come June..."

 

You set up regular gaming times and share the game with those that don't have it. If they get in they will eventually need to buy their own product, but there is no reason they can't use other people's cards and dice until then.

People share games all the time.

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38 minutes ago, Starbane said:

You set up regular gaming times and share the game with those that don't have it. If they get in they will eventually need to buy their own product, but there is no reason they can't use other people's cards and dice until then.

People share games all the time.

This sounds nice, but just doesn't work.  For one, the appeal of customizable games is being able to build your own decks.  How many people can my collection support?  What happens when (inevitably) something goes missing?  Or the weeks that I can't make it?

Unless you're going to go full-on communal with your card pool, this isn't at all realistic.

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 6:46 PM, soviet prince said:

If they start deleting criticism post then I am out of here......

 

it's not that we hate the game it's the exact opposite, we see the potential but instead of living up to there full potential we have to sit and watch FFG screw it all up. I want to promote the game but I am not getting anyone into the game just to tell them there is no product to buy.

I'm in the same boat as you.  It's hard to promote this game when there isn't any product out.  My best bud fell in love with this game when he visited prior to Christmas and we played a bunch of games with the starter sets and boosters that I bought.  He was extremely interested in the game and even gave me a $100 to pick him up everything to get started the next time I visited the LGS since he lived out of town.  Well, two months later my store still hasn't received any starter packs and he's actually asked for his money back.  FFG has definitely lost one potential customer just because of this disastrous rollout.

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 2:11 AM, Keigi said:

Remember some x-wing waves that were supposed to come out in November not hitting stores till January.

"It's on the boat"

The Imperial Raider that was released 6 months late...argh.

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:35 AM, SoonerTed said:

If it is anything like the Awakenings roll-out, expect only 1 or 2 booster boxes per store (if any at all).

...and they're immediately bought up by the store employees (all four boxes).  The next shipment didn't come in until three or four days before Christmas.  It just so happened that a buddy and myself happened to be in the store when they were unpacking their inventory before we were on our way to watch the movie Rogue One.  With a little luck on our side we were able to buy and split the one box they did receive.

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16 hours ago, Buhallin said:

This sounds nice, but just doesn't work.  For one, the appeal of customizable games is being able to build your own decks.  How many people can my collection support?  What happens when (inevitably) something goes missing?  Or the weeks that I can't make it?

Unless you're going to go full-on communal with your card pool, this isn't at all realistic.

I've been building 4 decks and bringing them to my LGS at least one day every weekend since release save one. I also bring the rest of my dice and cards so we can make changes to the decks 

You are correct in that eventually potential players need to buy in. Until then I want them to be able play the game and stay interested. Is this sustainable for the life of the game? Absolutely not. Can it work until June? Sure. If June comes and goes with insufficient availability of product I suspect it to to dwindle to only those with product playing the game.

Edit: I'm the only person to own Ashes, Conquest, Doomtown, and GoT amongst the people I play those games with and that has never been a problem. Of course in these cases we are not talking about building a community, only having people to play the game with.

Edited by Starbane

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2 hours ago, Starbane said:

I've been building 4 decks and bringing them to my LGS at least one day every weekend since release save one. I also bring the rest of my dice and cards so we can make changes to the decks 

Our of curiosity, how many of the people you're supporting like this are already friends?

It's certainly nice of you, but I stand by the original statement - even doing this, you cannot grow your community.  You're realistically capped at 4 players on a given night, unless people are waiting in line to try your decks.  Maybe you get one or two extra, but even as good as Destiny is I don't expect that you'll consistently have an extra 4 or 5 people showing up to do that.  You certainly won't have consistent growth.

 

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55 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Our of curiosity, how many of the people you're supporting like this are already friends?

It's certainly nice of you, but I stand by the original statement - even doing this, you cannot grow your community.  You're realistically capped at 4 players on a given night, unless people are waiting in line to try your decks.  Maybe you get one or two extra, but even as good as Destiny is I don't expect that you'll consistently have an extra 4 or 5 people showing up to do that.  You certainly won't have consistent growth.

 

1 person was already a friend. We do have other people with product who show up so it's not like everyone who plays uses my stuff.

We have actually had 2 people buy product online despite the cost because of this.

I totally agree this isn't sustainable. We just need to be able to keep people's interest until June. If they can't get product then they will presumably give up.

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