I have got my copy of Miskatonic Museum Mythos!

[Meretrix 98]

Wait, the setup instructions are not on cards like the PoDs but on folded up inserts?

[KrisWall 966]

22 minutes ago, Meretrix said:

Wait, the setup instructions are not on cards like the PoDs but on folded up inserts?

Correct.  Remember that the PoD ones are produced in house.  It's probably easier to include a series of cards with the scenario setup and outcome if they're doing it in house.  With their normal outsourced production, they can include an insert and don't have to "waste" cards on rules.

[Noccus 324]

20 minutes ago, Meretrix said:

Wait, the setup instructions are not on cards like the PoDs but on folded up inserts?

Yes, like the LotR APs, there is a foldable sheet inside the pamflet cover of the pack. Just pop it open, fiddle between the cover paper and voila.

Only the PoD scenario's have instructions written on cards.

 

 

[Matthos 11]

12 hours ago, Buhallin said:

 I don't even know where the whole "It's a myyyyyysssteerrryyyyyy!  OOOOOoooooo!!" thing comes from.  It's not like they print the pamphlets with invisible ink that can only be revealed by dousing it with the blood of a virgin who'd completed the scenario.

Thematically keeping the rules offline allows the designer to keep some surprise for when they open the box and dive into them without any knowledge.  It's called unboxing and many players want that experience.  And it's something many designers want their customers to enjoy.  I do agree that having them online in the future is a good thing, but having them released later isn't going to hurt you.

12 hours ago, Buhallin said:

But they've also decided to stop doing that.  And why?  Other than sheer laziness on their part, there's really no reason not to provide them in PDF format.

And again, I don't think you know how much cost and time goes into creating an LCG so it comes in on budget. Someone creating your PDF doesn't just magically happen. Creating something in different formats takes time and shockingly money. You think it's fairly simple, but again you don't know.  Work sometime in production and design and you'd understand the demands of pushing out an almost bi-annual project.  Coordinating artist, copywriters, editors, translators, printers, and an ever present accountant/producer down your neck trying to keep costs down since they have to pay all the people in writ list to keep them employed to keep creating the games you like to play.  Oh yeah, and many of these same people work on multiple projects spilling their time between games to fulfill the demand.

9 hours ago, Buhallin said:

First day on the internet, eh?  Don't worry, you'll get used to people having opinions you disagree with eventually.

And I'm not looking for an online utopia, but if you want to turn someone else's thread into something critical, that had no baring to the original topic, best etiquette would be to start a different thread instead.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Matthos

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, Matthos said:

Thematically keeping the rules offline allows the designer to keep some surprise for when they open the box and dive into them without any knowledge.  It's called unboxing and many players want that experience.  And it's something many designers want their customers to enjoy.  I do agree that having them online in the future is a good thing, but having them released later isn't going to hurt you.

Anyone who wants the unboxing and surprise experience can avoid digital versions even more easily than they can the paper versions.  I'm holding off playing Dunwich until enough packs are out that we can get through it without having to wait.  I've even started scanning the ones we've got, so I'll have my own digital copies.  Somehow, I've managed to do that without reading.  Shocking, I know.  Honestly, if the priority is maintaining the surprise, putting them online would be BETTER.  That would make it an on-demand thing rather than something that you push to players.

You'll also note that I've asked FFG about this, and they've stated that they won't be providing them digitally at all.  So it's not just "later", it's never.

1 hour ago, Matthos said:

And again, I don't think you know how much cost and time goes into creating an LCG so it comes in on budget. Someone creating your PDF doesn't just magically happen. Creating something in different formats takes time and shockingly money. You think it's fairly simple, but again you don't know.  Work sometime in production and design and you'd understand the demands of pushing out an almost bi-annual project.  Coordinating artist, copywriters, editors, translators, printers, and an ever present accountant/producer down your neck trying to keep costs down since they have to pay all the people in writ list to keep them employed to keep creating the games you like to play.  Oh yeah, and many of these same people work on multiple projects spilling their time between games to fulfill the demand.

They currently are providing about half the pages of the campaign guide, split into two PDFs.  Are you seriously arguing that that is somehow easier than just providing the whole thing?  And, again, they manage to do this for all their other games just fine.  They seem to think it's worth the value everywhere else, what but here - where it's more important that players have them - they don't?  That makes no sense at all.

I may not be fully informed on the full design process (not that you are either), but I do know that FFG has demonstrated the capability to handle this as recently as LAST WEEK.  It's not unreasonable to think that it would be within their powers to do so for AH too, but maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

1 hour ago, Matthos said:

 

[soullos 147]

Wait, FFG is not going to provide rules inserts as PDFs for Mythos packs???

[xchan 66]

2 hours ago, soullos said:

Wait, FFG is not going to provide rules inserts as PDFs for Mythos packs???

That's exactly what we are discussing. Buhallin asked FFG about them and they said they won't be putting them up. 

I don't know what were they thinking, but if by the time the second chapter pack gets released the full rule sheet for the previous one is not available online, then they are forcing people to infringe copyright (by asking for scans of the whole rules) or to buy all the chapters to be able to play the new one by the standalone rules provided by the book. If the later is their intention, then they are commiting false advertising as right now, the chapters only list the Core and the Deluxe as mandatory to be able to play the new chapters not the whole cycle.

[BD Flory 695]

If miskatonic is any example, you can play standalone fine without previous packs. They included relevant log entries in the standalone instructions.

[soullos 147]

3 hours ago, xchan said:

That's exactly what we are discussing. Buhallin asked FFG about them and they said they won't be putting them up. 

I don't know what were they thinking, but if by the time the second chapter pack gets released the full rule sheet for the previous one is not available online, then they are forcing people to infringe copyright (by asking for scans of the whole rules) or to buy all the chapters to be able to play the new one by the standalone rules provided by the book. If the later is their intention, then they are commiting false advertising as right now, the chapters only list the Core and the Deluxe as mandatory to be able to play the new chapters not the whole cycle.

That is lame. FFG are going about this the wrong way. Remove or blur out the story if they must in favor of no spoilers nonsense, but at least give us the rules for setup/resolution that are vital for playing the game. Especially, as you said, for stand alone play. What if someone buys Mythos pack 3, maybe because it was the only one in stock, or that's the only one that interests them from the cycle, budget constraints, or any other reason? Obviously buying out of order means no campaign play, but are they also stuck with a scenario they can't play if FFG won't provide them with online resources?

I'm not going to cry foul just yet, but I'm not exactly liking what I'm hearing. We'll see how this develops as more Mythos packs are released and how integral the setup/resolutions are for stand alone play. This might even be a bigger problem years down the road. Just look at LotR, many new players can't buy in progression order because they're waiting for reprints, but at least they can play whatever AP they do buy that is in stock.

I wonder if we'll see a quest companion similar to that for LotR? That would be a very useful solution, IMO.

[xchan 66]

3 hours ago, BD Flory said:

If miskatonic is any example, you can play standalone fine without previous packs. They included relevant log entries in the standalone instructions.

Care to explain it further? Do the insert contain the rules for standalone play?

[BD Flory 695]

3 hours ago, xchan said:

Care to explain it further? Do the insert contain the rules for standalone play?

It does, including a chaos bag loadout. It's not the starting Dunwich bag, but you could get to it with appropriate resolutions.

There's one previous resolution listed, because it impacts the scenario, and you're told which to use.

I just want to be careful of spoilers since the pack just dropped.

Essentially the standalone rules override the normal "pick your outcome" method in the RRG and assigns a value to anything that might matter in this scenario.

Edited February 18, 2017 by BD Flory

[Khudzlin 734]

The insert omits one campaign note you get in the resolutions implied (which are the worst ones you could get). Probably because it doesn't have an impact on the pack's scenario.

[iGniGhted 113]

sometimes on this forum, i have to remember I'm not reading a thread of complaints from whiney 10 year olds.

there are already multiple admissions from cheap crybabies who refused to buy a second core set that printed out copies of cards, FFG is well within their right imo to protect their intellectual property, and at least, for some time, hold off on the release of some scenario specific rules. if you own the game why do you care? you have a copy already.

 

i can't wait to see the next big complaint about this game. the Box, the rules, next people will start complaining about the art, or that the cards aren't cardboardy enough.

FFG really needs to do a big box expansion of tissues for everyone who find these little things and hangs on to them like they're even remotely important or change the game in any way.

 

it's a card game, so play the card game and stop complaining, or stop playing the card game. pretty easy.

who else needs a tissue?

Edited February 18, 2017 by iGniGhted

[Network57 561]

4 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

The insert omits one campaign note you get in the resolutions implied (which are the worst ones you could get). Probably because it doesn't have an impact on the pack's scenario.

Can guy post that here with spoiler tags? I'm curious which note you mean.

[Kentares 169]

2 hours ago, iGniGhted said:

who else needs a tissue?

I do. Got a terrible cold and already run out of tissues...

[Khudzlin 734]

17 minutes ago, Network57 said:

Can guy post that here with spoiler tags? I'm curious which note you mean.

I'm not sure how to do spoiler tags on this forum, so I'll just say it comes from The House Always Wins.

[Meretrix 98]

3 hours ago, iGniGhted said:

sometimes on this forum, i have to remember I'm not reading a thread of complaints from whiney 10 year olds.

there are already multiple admissions from cheap crybabies who refused to buy a second core set that printed out copies of cards, FFG is well within their right imo to protect their intellectual property, and at least, for some time, hold off on the release of some scenario specific rules. if you own the game why do you care? you have a copy already.

 

i can't wait to see the next big complaint about this game. the Box, the rules, next people will start complaining about the art, or that the cards aren't cardboardy enough.

FFG really needs to do a big box expansion of tissues for everyone who find these little things and hangs on to them like they're even remotely important or change the game in any way.

 

it's a card game, so play the card game and stop complaining, or stop playing the card game. pretty easy.

who else needs a tissue?

There's nothing wrong with posting concerns or complaints about a game on a game forum.

[Network57 561]

41 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

I'm not sure how to do spoiler tags on this forum, so I'll just say it comes from The House Always Wins.

Just surround it in [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] tags (just without the spaces!)

you mean that the insert for Miskatonic Museum doesn't mention what to do if the O'Bannion gang has a bone to pick with you? It also doesn't mention the Experiment or not saving the students from Extracurricular Activity. Probably because those will affect setup for a later scenario instead.

[Khudzlin 734]

Thanks.

 

The setup implies that the following notes are true:

1. Professor Warren Rice was kidnapped (since he's not available)
2. Dr. Francis Morgan was kidnapped (since he's not available)
3. the investigators failed to save the students (since the Tablet token has been added to the chaos bag)
4. the investigators were unconscious for several hours (since that's the only way Dr. Henry Armitage was kidnapped)
5. the investigators cheated in The House Always Wins (since the Elder Thing token has been added to the chaos bag)

and that the following notes are false:

• the investigators have rescued Professor Warren Rice (exclusive with 1)
• the investigators have rescued Dr. Francis Morgan (exclusive with 2)
• the students were rescued (exclusive with 3)
• the Experiment was defeated (exclusive with 3)
• the investigators have rescued Dr. Henry Armitage (exclusive with Dr. Henry Armitage was kidnapped)

Either of the following notes could be true, since they're exclusive with each other, but each is compatible with at least one valid combination of the others:

• the O'Bannion gang has a bone to pick with the investigators
• Naomi has the investigators' backs

Edited February 18, 2017 by Khudzlin

[Noccus 324]

4 hours ago, iGniGhted said:

or that the cards aren't cardboardy enough.

This! I want more cardboard in my cardboard! Make it happen FFG!

[Network57 561]

27 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Thanks.

  Hide contents

The setup implies that the following notes are true:

1. Professor Warren Rice was kidnapped (since he's not available)
2. Dr. Francis Morgan was kidnapped (since he's not available)
3. the investigators failed to save the students (since the Tablet token has been added to the chaos bag)
4. the investigators were unconscious for several hours (since that's the only way Dr. Henry Armitage was kidnapped)
5. the investigators cheated in The House Always Wins (since the Elder Thing token has been added to the chaos bag)

and that the following notes are false:

• the investigators have rescued Professor Warren Rice (exclusive with 1)
• the investigators have rescued Dr. Francis Morgan (exclusive with 2)
• the students were rescued (exclusive with 3)
• the Experiment was defeated (exclusive with 3)
• the investigators have rescued Dr. Henry Armitage (exclusive with Dr. Henry Armitage was kidnapped)

Either of the following notes could be true, since they're exclusive with each other, but each is compatible with at least one valid combination of the others:

• the O'Bannion gang has a bone to pick with the investigators
• Naomi has the investigators' backs

Not sure I understand...

so the rescuing and kidnapping of the various professors are wrapped up in Dunwich - basically whether or not you can add them your deck. This has no bearing on the Museum's setup. Once you earn a story asset, it's yours until stated otherwise.

The Tablet token and Elder Thing token are only added in setup in standalone mode. In traditional campaign mode, it's dependent upon resolutions in Dunwich - and again, once they've been added via resolution, they stay there until stated otherwise.

Maybe you need to reread the Dunwich resolutions. It sounds like you're confusing how campaign mode functions.

[Network57 561]

34 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Thanks.

  Reveal hidden contents

The setup implies that the following notes are true:

1. Professor Warren Rice was kidnapped (since he's not available)
2. Dr. Francis Morgan was kidnapped (since he's not available)
3. the investigators failed to save the students (since the Tablet token has been added to the chaos bag)
4. the investigators were unconscious for several hours (since that's the only way Dr. Henry Armitage was kidnapped)
5. the investigators cheated in The House Always Wins (since the Elder Thing token has been added to the chaos bag)

and that the following notes are false:

• the investigators have rescued Professor Warren Rice (exclusive with 1)
• the investigators have rescued Dr. Francis Morgan (exclusive with 2)
• the students were rescued (exclusive with 3)
• the Experiment was defeated (exclusive with 3)
• the investigators have rescued Dr. Henry Armitage (exclusive with Dr. Henry Armitage was kidnapped)

Either of the following notes could be true, since they're exclusive with each other, but each is compatible with at least one valid combination of the others:

• the O'Bannion gang has a bone to pick with the investigators
• Naomi has the investigators' backs

Ooh wait. Do you mean in standalone mode? I completely misunderstood, apologies. Yes, you are correct. It assumes the worst resolutions -- in standalone, you can't use any story asset you may have earned previously. The one resolution it specifically states is so you know which version of the prologue to read, but both versions have the same setup, so it's just story flavor text.

[Khudzlin 734]

Oh yes, I mean in standalone mode. If you're continuing the campaign, you already have all the relevent information. By the way, I just noticed that the instructions for suggested setup in standalone mode include "and do not wish to refer to any other setup/resolutions". So they're meant as an alternative to the standard "pick your outcomes along the way" rule.

[xchan 66]

7 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Oh yes, I mean in standalone mode. If you're continuing the campaign, you already have all the relevent information. By the way, I just noticed that the instructions for suggested setup in standalone mode include "and do not wish to refer to any other setup/resolutions". So they're meant as an alternative to the standard "pick your outcomes along the way" rule.

That's really great. I wasn't digging the standalone rules in the book. Knowing each pack might come with standalone rules of their own gives me some reassurance.

[Khudzlin 734]

You still need the Core Set and the Deluxe for the encounter sets, though. Specific standalone instructions only allow you to play without the previous mythos packs in the same cycle.