Kylo Ren - I'll Show you the Dark Side Questions

[Hawkstrike 5,410]

So some questions came up last night with Kylo Ren and ISYTDS:

(1) If I'm playing Kylo and put ISYTDS on my opponent, does the Pilot damage card attached to ISYTDS come from my opponent's damage deck or mine?

(2) When applying ISYTDS, does the crit card-through-shields take the place of all damage rolled, or just the uncancelled crit die?

(3) Assuming (2) is just one die, if there are multiple uncancelled crits, do the remainder resolve normally (ie, if the target ship still had shields, they would remove shield tokens first)?

(4) If ISYTDS is on an opponent's ship, and Kylo Ren is desptroyed, what happens to the ISYTDS condition?

(5) How do Chewbacca pilot and Leebo pilot abilities interact with ISYTDS? I assume Chewie flips the assigned card face down; does Leebo allow a second card to be selected and chosen?

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

1: His.

2: Just the crit die

3: Normally - the condition is discarded once the crit has been dealt.

4: It stays until it is dealt - nothing says to discard it, so you don't.

5: Chewie works as normal.  Leebo needs an FAQ, the interaction is really not clear just from the cards.

[StevenO 2,996]

5.  Leebo has to be "dealt" a face-up card to activate.  ISYTDS instructs you to "deal" that card; this becomes a dealt card and then Leebo should get to go to work.

 

[PHRAETUS 93]

Where is the assertion that this condition ignores shields?

 

[DR4CO 6,234]

3 minutes ago, PHRAETUS said:

Where is the assertion that this condition ignores shields?

The condition states it goes off when the target suffers "critical damage". Critical damage that would be absorbed by shields is still critical damage, which means the condition replaces it with the faceup damage card.

[StevenO 2,996]

16 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

21 minutes ago, PHRAETUS said:

Where is the assertion that this condition ignores shields?

The condition states it goes off when the target suffers "critical damage". Critical damage that would be absorbed by shields is still critical damage, which means the condition replaces it with the faceup damage card.

That was my issue with that condition as well.

I had understood it as something akin to "if you'd deal this ship a face-up damage card you instead deal the card off of the condition."  My idea of "suffer damage" is that it doesn't care about the type until after the shields are gone but that isn't the case.

 

[Engine25 2,910]

"When you suffer critical damage from an attack, you are instead dealt the chosen face up damage card."

Instead of suffering the critical damage, which would remove a shield token, you get dealt the card.  It's not an assertion; it's plainly written on the rules card for the condition. Instead of suffering critical damage, you are dealt the face up damage card.

[PHRAETUS 93]

But you only suffer Critical Damage after shields have been accounted for?

From the 'Timing Chart for Performing an Attack' found in the FAQ:

7. “Deal Damage” step

i. Remove shield tokens to cancel Hit results

ii. Remove shield tokens to cancel Crit results

iii. The defender is dealt facedown damage cards for remaining Hit results

iv. The defender is dealt faceup damage cards for remaining Crit results

Edited February 6, 2017 by PHRAETUS
Bold specific text

[DR4CO 6,234]

21 minutes ago, PHRAETUS said:

But you only suffer Critical Damage after shields have been accounted for?

No, you get dealt face-up damage cards for each critical damage you suffer after shields have been accounted for. Critical damage being dealt to a shield is still critical damage.

29 minutes ago, PHRAETUS said:

From the 'Timing Chart for Performing an Attack' found in the FAQ:

7. “Deal Damage” step

i. Remove shield tokens to cancel Hit results

ii. Remove shield tokens to cancel Crit results

iii. The defender is dealt facedown damage cards for remaining Hit results

iv. The defender is dealt faceup damage cards for remaining Crit results

The bolded part is where IWSYTDS steps in. You're about to suffer critical damage, which would normally remove a shield. Instead, the condition's replacement effect kicks in and deals the face-up damage card instead.

[Smuggler 556]

RRG P9 under both "Damage" and "Critical Damage" makes it pretty clear that you "suffer critical damage" regardles if the effect is to remove a shield token or deal a face up damage card.

 

Quote

During an attack, a ship suffers one critical damage for
each uncanceled (crit icon) result. If a ship is dealt a Damage
card due to suffering critical damage, that card is
dealt faceup and its text immediately resolves.

 

[StevenO 2,996]

ISYTD turning the critical damage into a card is going to be like the same mechanic that lets an uncancelled kaboom be stolen from a ship using Draw Their Fire.  It's just that more of us are probably more familiar with the "uncancelled kaboom result" than we would be "suffer critical damage."

 

[BlodVargarna 4,041]

That begs an interesting question: how would IWSYDS and draw their fire interact?

And to be clear: the card is dealt 'past shields' so you don't lose a shield and suffer the card, just he card correct?

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

Draw Their Fire on an ally of the ship with ISYTDS would work as normal - the target doesn't take the crit, and the DTF ship takes a shield.

DTF on the ship WITH ISYTDS I think would work as normal (the source of the crit is DTF not an attack would be the argument), but again, I think it needs FAQing to be sure.

[Mitthraw 0]

1. What happens when another ship attacks the Upsilon-class Shuttle with Kylo as the pilot, and the ISYTDS card is already assigned to an enemy ship? Do they both get the condition, or is it on one ship.

2. Kylo Ren crew, when you do the action of assigning the ISYTDS to a ship when it already is assigned to another ship what happens?

Basically can only 1 ship have the condition or multiple? 

[joeshmoe554 839]

Only one ship can have the condition (since it is a unique condition) and if it is re-assigned, then the damage card that is currently on the condition will stay on the condition.

[StevenO 2,996]

56 minutes ago, MItthraw said:

1. What happens when another ship attacks the Upsilon-class Shuttle with Kylo as the pilot, and the ISYTDS card is already assigned to an enemy ship? Do they both get the condition, or is it on one ship.

2. Kylo Ren crew, when you do the action of assigning the ISYTDS to a ship when it already is assigned to another ship what happens?

Basically can only 1 ship have the condition or multiple? 

You move the Condition card to the new ship.  The same thing would happen if you used Kylo-crew to target a new ship while ISYTDS was already in play.

This is why you only get to search for a card to put on ISYTDS when the card is put into play with no other copies in play.  You put it in play and pick a card for it but then can move that card around until you finally see it pop or otherwise go away at which time you can start the process all over again.

[Mitthraw 0]

2 hours ago, StevenO said:

You move the Condition card to the new ship.  The same thing would happen if you used Kylo-crew to target a new ship while ISYTDS was already in play.

This is why you only get to search for a card to put on ISYTDS when the card is put into play with no other copies in play.  You put it in play and pick a card for it but then can move that card around until you finally see it pop or otherwise go away at which time you can start the process all over again.

So once the "searched" critical hit card is applied to a ship, you can search again and apply it to another ship (Once all conditions are met, pilot ability/ship attacks or crew card does action)

[WWHSD 9,273]

5 hours ago, MItthraw said:

1. What happens when another ship attacks the Upsilon-class Shuttle with Kylo as the pilot, and the ISYTDS card is already assigned to an enemy ship? Do they both get the condition, or is it on one ship.

It is important to note that in the case of Kylo pilot, applying the condition is not optional. The first ship that hits Kylo in a round gets the condition whether you want them to or not. 

If Kylo gets popular as a pilot, I'm going to smack a high PS pilot with Determination in my squads. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by WWHSD
I totally typed pilot. digitalbusker is fake news.

[StevenO 2,996]

19 minutes ago, MItthraw said:

3 hours ago, StevenO said:

You move the Condition card to the new ship.  The same thing would happen if you used Kylo-crew to target a new ship while ISYTDS was already in play.

This is why you only get to search for a card to put on ISYTDS when the card is put into play with no other copies in play.  You put it in play and pick a card for it but then can move that card around until you finally see it pop or otherwise go away at which time you can start the process all over again.

So once the "searched" critical hit card is applied to a ship, you can search again and apply it to another ship (Once all conditions are met, pilot ability/ship attacks or crew card does action)

The when the condition is FIRST applied you search for a card which remains on the condition until the condition no longer has a card on it as is then removed.  After the Condition is no longer in play Kylo may again do what ever is needed to put the condition back into play at which time it will search out a new card.

Note that at any time when you search for a card to put on ISYTDS you "may" choose (or be forced to choose if you can't find a card) not to place a damage card on the condition which then causes the condition to be removed from the game having only allowed you to search the DD.

 

[digitalbusker 2,248]

58 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It is important to note that in the case of Kylo crew pilot, applying the condition is not optional.

Pretty clear what you meant from context, but you switched that around.

[Lobokai 1,518]

Does the act of receiving the card deal damage? If a ship just had 1 hull and was hit with this condition, would it also have been destroyed?

[DR4CO 6,234]

Only once the condition is triggered and the card is dealt to the ship. Being assigned the condition does not count as damage. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by DR4CO

[NiamLeeson 2]

On 21/02/2017 at 2:18 AM, Lobokai said:

Does the act of receiving the card deal damage? If a ship just had 1 hull and was hit with this condition, would it also have been destroyed?

This is related to a question I have. Fair enough if the card bypasses the shield, but each face up card still subtracts from the hull right? So dealing the pilot criteria would also reduce the hull without ever reducing the shields? 

Or am I missing something? 

[muribundi 406]

It does not reduce the hull, this is not a concept that exist. Card do not deal damage, THEY ARE the damage

Your are dealt damage card. When the number of damage card on your ship exceed the hull number your ship explode... whatever they are face up or face down or the source they come from or the number of shield you still have.

Edit: removed a wrong part

Edited February 27, 2017 by muribundi

[NiamLeeson 2]

So effectively you could keep assigning this card to a ship over and over after you've used it to destroy it without ever touching the shields. 

Example: Turn one action, Kylo puts ISYTDS on Whisper. Turn one combat, Kylo pushes a crit through on Whisper, gives them a pilot card (let's say blind pilot). 

Turn two action, Kylo puts ISYTDS on Whisper again. Turn two combat, another crit, another pilot card goes on Whisper (injured pilot). 

Whisper is now destroyed as she has two crit cards on her but no shields depleted. It affectively makes Whisper a 2hp ship?