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RookieOne

Can Heroes use any items types?

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Hey guys thanks for any help on this one. We're about to start our first campaign (so I imagine a few more questions may follow on!) and I had a quick question. Can heroes use different item types, so if there's a ranged character they can use pistols and or blasters?

 

Many thanks

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6 hours ago, Spidey NZ said:

each hero is restricted to 2 weapons, 3 equipment, 1 Armour, 1 helmet

The restriction is on bringing it to a mission, you can have additional equipment "in storage."  Further weapon mods are limited to no more than 1 of a type per weapon, although this rarely comes up.

Edited by Union

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Yeah, there are no general restrictions in terms of items (other tha  the number you can carry) but the abilities and cards of a character will often specify ranged or melee and sometimes even the type of weapon. Jyn and Verena both have skills that require pistols specifically, but there not yet any skills that require rifles or heavy blasters.

Onar is notable for being the only non-support character with no weapon restrictions on any abilities or skills, which makes him pretty versatile in terms of items.

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On 2/2/2017 at 8:03 AM, Deadwolf said:

Yeah, there are no general restrictions in terms of items (other tha  the number you can carry) but the abilities and cards of a character will often specify ranged or melee and sometimes even the type of weapon. Jyn and Verena both have skills that require pistols specifically, but there not yet any skills that require rifles or heavy blasters.

Onar is notable for being the only non-support character with no weapon restrictions on any abilities or skills, which makes him pretty versatile in terms of items.

Onar is def a support character. Or at leadt not a non-support character.But yes if you choose to go with an offensive build, he is fine with any weapon and probably does better with melees since his offensive abilities feed off being adjacent.

Edited by Tvboy

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3 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Onar is def a support character. Or at leadt not a non-support character.But yes if you choose to go with an offensive build, he is fine with any weapon and probably does better with melees since his offensive abilities feed off being adjacent.

 

I don't think I would really call him support.  He has two support type cards, Get Down, which is decent, but weak, and Stay Behind Me which is terrible.

He doesn't have the bonus attack like you expect from a damage dealer, but he has Don't Make Me Hurt You, which makes his attacks far more effective instead.

I went straight for Don't Make Me Hurt You which made him the heavy hitter while still in tier 1 weapons... red red green when everyone else is rolling blue yellow or blue green...  Then I went for Black Sun Armor to make him survivable.  He'll probably end up with an electrostaff for red red green blue cleave 2.

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1 hour ago, Union said:

 

I don't think I would really call him support.  He has two support type cards, Get Down, which is decent, but weak, and Stay Behind Me which is terrible.

He doesn't have the bonus attack like you expect from a damage dealer, but he has Don't Make Me Hurt You, which makes his attacks far more effective instead.

I went straight for Don't Make Me Hurt You which made him the heavy hitter while still in tier 1 weapons... red red green when everyone else is rolling blue yellow or blue green...  Then I went for Black Sun Armor to make him survivable.  He'll probably end up with an electrostaff for red red green blue cleave 2.

You're forgetting about Brute Strength, which is a very strong support card and makes Onar into an excellent objective/crate gopher. He can go pure support with Brute Strength, Black Sun Armor, Get Down, Stay Behind Me and Keep Up, maybe with Mutual Destruction mixed in to let him finish off figures without having to attack. 

He supports the team by clearing crates, doors and objectives with ease, which is aided by Rush being able to clear away blocking figures (one of the only things that ability is actually good for by itself) adding defense to his comrades, and just being difficult to wound (and thus keeping the Rebels from losing) once he's got Black Sun Armor, Stay Behind Me and Get Down.

I'm not saying he can't be good as an offensive hero, I'm saying he should not be dismissed as for the support role because of how good Brute Strength is. 

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6 hours ago, Tvboy said:

You're forgetting about Brute Strength, which is a very strong support card and makes Onar into an excellent objective/crate gopher. He can go pure support with Brute Strength, Black Sun Armor, Get Down, Stay Behind Me and Keep Up, maybe with Mutual Destruction mixed in to let him finish off figures without having to attack. 

He supports the team by clearing crates, doors and objectives with ease, which is aided by Rush being able to clear away blocking figures (one of the only things that ability is actually good for by itself) adding defense to his comrades, and just being difficult to wound (and thus keeping the Rebels from losing) once he's got Black Sun Armor, Stay Behind Me and Get Down.

I'm not saying he can't be good as an offensive hero, I'm saying he should not be dismissed as for the support role because of how good Brute Strength is. 

Plus he can't get negative conditions, so he never has to worry about stun or bleed slowing him down

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Rebels don't have the luxury of turning a character into a dedicated crate monkey, particularly one with only 4 speed.  Most of my crates have been opened by Shayla because she can move 5 squares and still have 2 actions.  For 3 XP I can't ever see taking Brute Strength, Jynn, Mak and Loku's versions are all 1 XP, and this might be a bit stronger, but not 2 more XP worth of better.

In Jabba's realm interacts are often replaced by spending movement points and the few doors usually need to be shot, so even more so is Brute Strength bad.  I'd say the card is a trap card in Jabba's Realm because it's trying to "fix" the high cost of interacts in previous campaigns that Jabba's Realm already "fixes" by removing them.

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You're wrong that interacts are completely replaced in Jabba's Realm, there are a lot of missions in JR where heroes must interact with doors and terminals and pass attribute tests to win story missions, including the intermission and at least one of the finale missions. There's also side missions as well.

You argued that Shyla is better at getting crates because she gets 5mp (for 5xp and 2strain) without using an action. When Onar uses Brute Force, which is 3xp and 0 strain, he gets 4 movement points for free. The real kicker though is by wasting Shyla's action opening a crate, you weren't using her expensive equipment on attacking, while a support character doesn't spend credits on weapons so doesn't care about losing an opportunity to attack. Also being able to guarantee getting every crate on the map is a bonus, but getting an extra 150-200 credits per mission will improve your teams offense by giving you access to more and better equipment.

Jabba's Realm is also not the only campaign you can use Onar Koma in by the way.

Im saying that both offensive Onar and support Onar are equally viable, and perhaps the offensive Onar is the better build, but if you only see Onar as offensive-only, you're unnecessarily limiting yourself and might get screwed when he's in a team with 3 other true non-supports and you don't have enough credits to get premiere equipment for everyone and can't win a mission because you can't clear a non-damage based objective.

Union, not everything is a black-and-white, right-or-wrong answer.

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1 hour ago, Tvboy said:

You're wrong that interacts are completely replaced in Jabba's Realm, there are a lot of missions in JR where heroes must interact with doors and terminals and pass attribute tests to win story missions, including the intermission and at least one of the finale missions. There's also side missions as well.

You argued that Shyla is better at getting crates because she gets 5mp (for 5xp and 2strain) without using an action. When Onar uses Brute Force, which is 3xp and 0 strain, he gets 4 movement points for free. The real kicker though is by wasting Shyla's action opening a crate, you weren't using her expensive equipment on attacking, while a support character doesn't spend credits on weapons so doesn't care about losing an opportunity to attack. Also being able to guarantee getting every crate on the map is a bonus, but getting an extra 150-200 credits per mission will improve your teams offense by giving you access to more and better equipment.

Jabba's Realm is also not the only campaign you can use Onar Koma in by the way.

Im saying that both offensive Onar and support Onar are equally viable, and perhaps the offensive Onar is the better build, but if you only see Onar as offensive-only, you're unnecessarily limiting yourself and might get screwed when he's in a team with 3 other true non-supports and you don't have enough credits to get premiere equipment for everyone and can't win a mission because you can't clear a non-damage based objective.

Union, not everything is a black-and-white, right-or-wrong answer.

 

I said often replaced, you then claim I said completely.  What I said is a fact, there are very few interacts in Jabba's Realm.  You can pretend otherwise if you want, but numbers.  Also the fact that other characters can arrive at the few interacts before Onar means he won't be doing the interacts anyway.  In the interlude other characters got to the terminal first, and the weak points are then done with 2 movement points.  In the Luke Skywalker mission the fact that Shyla can move 15 squares meant she flipped the terminal on turn 2, something Onar wouldn't be able to do until turn 3.

 You then claim I'd be "wasting Shyla's expensive equipment"... uh...?  YOU are wasting Onar's ability to attack RED RED GREEN with his starter weapon by buying him shitty cards.  Shyla's movement on the other hand also gives her recovery, defense and gets her into position to make attacks, Onar's card... lets him open doors for free sometimes... if there is a door... and if he can get to it before the faster people on the team.  Uh huh.

"Support Onar" doesn't exist, why would you even think that?  He can't give surges, remove strain, give extra attacks, give rerolls, give focus, remove conditions etc.  He can shift damage, but only while beside the target and only if healthy, horrible, and he can push 1 figure 1 space if he moves beside the figure.  Horrible.  He doesn't have any actual support abilities.  If you're calling him support then you can call Mak support too as he has Expertise and Supply Network for free interacts and more crate items.

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If you want to talk about numbers, I just checked my JR book and only 2 story missions that cannot both be played in the same campaign use the movement points interact mechanic you mentioned, while there are 5 story missions that either require multiple interact actions to win or require interact actions with high difficulty attribute tests, which includes the intermission and one of the finales.

I think you have a bit of a narrow definition of what a "support character" is, or maybe my definition is more broad than most. For me, support character is someone who can help accomplish the mission without attacking, thus freeing up the the other heroes credits and actions for offense which makes the whole team more efficient. You tried to use Mak as a strawman, but he can't be a support character because he can't fill out an 11xp build without including an ability that requires attacking, but Onar can. 

Edit: Also, maybe try calming down and being less intense, we're just talking about a game.

 

YOU are wasting Onar's ability to attack RED RED GREEN with his starter weapon by buying him shitty cards.

 

Edited by Tvboy

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Brute Strength is more of a utility skill than a support skill as true support skill affects your teammates in some way. If Onar actually functioned as a tank, then I could get behind the idea, since tanking is a form of support but really, he only has 2 of these skills: Get Down and Stay Behind me, none of these are impactful enough for him to truely "support".

Onar's only "great" skill is Don't make me hurt you: This places him fully in the dps camp. Now, which other cards you buy (which range from okay to good) changes his flavour: You can go full offense with cards like mutual destruction and Hold Still, Bulky Offense with Black Sun Armor, Get Down, & Stay Behind Me, and finally the Brute Strength build. None of these could fill the support role in a group, and while I guess you could consider 1 of the 3 dps/support (tho I think dps/utility is more accurate), I bet the Brute Strength build is the least played of the 3.

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