Flechette Torps, Kallus & Quad Lasers

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

You don't get to finish your activation once your activation slider has been toggled....

Because it signifies the end of the squadron's activation.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

You don't get to finish your activation once your activation slider has been toggled....

Because it signifies the end of the squadron's activation.

Does not logically follow.

The end of the activation triggers the changing of the slider.

The changing of the slider does not trigger the end of the activation.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

2 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

You don't normally change the slider after an attack.

You normally change it after the activation.

So, if the color of the slider is what's preventing you from making infinite attacks, it's not working, because the first attack doesn't trigger the switching of the activation slider.

Forget the thing about infinite attacks. I made that comment to address the significance of the activation slider.

 

Toggling the activation slider signifies the end of the squadron's activation.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

5 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Does not logically follow.

The end of the activation triggers the changing of the slider.

The changing of the slider does not trigger the end of the activation.

"The changing of the slider does not trigger the end of the activation."

What is the explanation for this?

Also, I said nothing about the act of toggling triggering the end of the activation.

I simply said that toggling the slider signifies the end of activation because a squadron which completes an activation must toggle its slider.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Warlord Zepnick

[Gowtah 196]

1 minute ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Toggling the activation slider signifies the end of the squadron's activation.

No, toggling the squadron activation slider is done at any point after the squadron activates to signify it has activated.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Gowtah said:

No, toggling the squadron activation slider is done at any point after the squadron activates to signify it has activated.

Right, and Flechette Torpedoes requires you to toggle the slider to signify that the squadron is activated and can take no further action.

[Gowtah 196]

Sure, add your own rules.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

 

2 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

"The changing of the slider does not trigger the end of the activation."

What is the explanation for this?

Because the rules don't say that it does...?

I pasted them above.  I'm not pasting them again...

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

4 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

 

Because the rules don't say that it does...?

I pasted them above.  I'm not pasting them again...

"After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that is has activated." (RRG)

Therefore, a squadron whose slider has been toggled, has been activated.

A squadron that has been activated, cannot take further action.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Warlord Zepnick

[Undeadguy 5,749]

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

A squadron that has been activated, cannot take further action.

Where is this?

[Gowtah 196]

That's not how the game works. Or English, for that matters.

A squadron that has activated has not necessarily "completed its activation."

 

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Where is this?

TIL squadrons can activate multiple times in the same turn.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

TIL squadrons can activate multiple times in the same turn.

Well that's certainly not in the rules. Squads can activate once per turn, unless Adar toggles them back.

[Gowtah 196]

This is hilarious btw, and I like those new forums.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Well that's certainly not in the rules. Squads can activate once per turn, unless Adar toggles them back.

Exactly, Undeadguy. That's why the toggling of the squadron ends its activation.

 

Because if toggling the slider didn't signify the end of the squadron's activation, we wouldn't have sliders.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

21 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

 

**** it.  I'm done.;  That's the last disrespect I'm taking.

Here I go again, making "logical leaps."

[Undeadguy 5,749]

5 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

"After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that is has activated." (RRG)

Therefore, a squadron whose slider has been toggled, has been activated.

A squadron that has been activated, cannot take further action.

So if we played a game, and I activated a squad and toggled the slider when I picked it up to move, would you stop my movement and attack? Because that is what I tend to do so I can reduce the amount of times I need to pick up the squads.

This is also supported by the RRG. I activated it, and toggled the slider after I activated it. No where does it say I toggle it at the end of the activation.

 

For your reference:

• After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that it has activated.

• A squadron cannot activate if the color and icon of its activation slider do not match the initiative token.

• An “after” effect occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

 

So my interpretation of the RRG is correct. When you reveal a squad command and activate something, you immediately toggle the slider.

I believe you are saying when you activate something, you toggle the slider after you attack and move. Which is a logical thing to do, because I guess you can lump the attack/move into the entirety of the activation, and we have never had to worry if that is actually true or not. Flechette Torps has changed this.

Just so you understand, I am saying the squad activation is broken into timing windows. If you could refer to, or add/subtract what you think happens to this timing flow chart, I think we can figure out where the disconnect is.

1.Reveal squad command/squad phase

2. Activate a squad

3. Toggle slider

4. Attack/Move 

5. End activation

[draco193 491]

We also see in the learn to play guide the toggle is just a visual for helping players keep track of what squadrons have activated.  It's a tool, not an actual state

Edited January 31, 2017 by draco193
stupid forum on phone

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

So if we played a game, and I activated a squad and toggled the slider when I picked it up to move, would you stop my movement and attack? Because that is what I tend to do so I can reduce the amount of times I need to pick up the squads.

This is also supported by the RRG. I activated it, and toggled the slider after I activated it. No where does it say I toggle it at the end of the activation.

 

For your reference:

• After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that it has activated.

• A squadron cannot activate if the color and icon of its activation slider do not match the initiative token.

• An “after” effect occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

 

So my interpretation of the RRG is correct. When you reveal a squad command and activate something, you immediately toggle the slider.

I believe you are saying when you activate something, you toggle the slider after you attack and move. Which is a logical thing to do, because I guess you can lump the attack/move into the entirety of the activation, and we have never had to worry if that is actually true or not. Flechette Torps has changed this.

Just so you understand, I am saying the squad activation is broken into timing windows. If you could refer to, or add/subtract what you think happens to this timing flow chart, I think we can figure out where the disconnect is.

1.Reveal squad command/squad phase

2. Activate a squad

3. Toggle slider

4. Attack/Move 

5. End activation

"So if we played a game, and I activated a squad and toggled the slider when I picked it up to move, would you stop my movement and attack?"

"After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that it has activated."

It says AFTER the squadron activates. So if you're moving and shooting, you move, shoot, then toggle the slider because of the word "after."

After the squadron activates. After. After. After. After. I really cannot stress this enough.

So, no I wouldn't be a **** and stop you from moving and shooting because it would be immaterial in the example you gave me. I realize that people activate the squadrons in advance by habit (myself included), but its creating a misconception about how his process actually works.

So with Yavaris:

1) choose squadron to activate

2) shoot

3) flechette torpedoes

4) toggle slider

5) end of squadron's activation

 

 

[Gowtah 196]

You know what else you do after a squadron activates? Move and/or shoot.

[Democratus 1,698]

That's not correct, due to the specific meaning of the word "after" - which is "immediately after"

1) Activate a squadron (only if it's slider color is correct)

2) Toggle slider (due to "immediately after" clause)

3) move or shoot

4) shoot or move

5) done

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

7 minutes ago, draco193 said:

We also see in the learn to play guide the toggle is just a visual for helping players keep track of what squadrons have activated.  It's a tool, not an actual state

Interesting point Draco.

So is the effect of Flechette Torpedoes to remind us that a squadron has been activated by toggling its slider, or is the effect of Flechette Torpedoes to forcibly activate a squadron to prevent it from further action?

Edited January 31, 2017 by Warlord Zepnick

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Democratus said:

That's not correct, due to the specific meaning of the word "after" - which is "immediately after"

1) Activate a squadron (only if it's slider color is correct)

2) Toggle slider (due to "immediately after" clause)

3) move or shoot

4) shoot or move

5) done

Where does it say "immediately" after?

[Gowtah 196]

1 minute ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Interesting point Draco.

So is the effect of Flechette Torpedoes to remind us that a squadron has been activated by toggling its slider, or is the effect of Flechette Torpedoes to forcibly activate a squadron?

Just like Dutch, the effect is here to prevent an unactivated squadron to be subsequently activated.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

Everyone here seems to be missing the point of Flechette Torpedoes also.