Flechette Torps, Kallus & Quad Lasers

[Mad Cat 2,250]

Wedge is activated by a squadron token and is already at range 1 of an enemy Raider armed with Flechette Torpedoes, Agent Kallus and Quad Laser Turrets. Wedge is unengaged and wishes to fire at the Raider then move away to pin some Tie Bombers.

Wedge fires and the QLTs give a counter attack of one blue die, added to this is a black die from Kallus.

A Black hit/Crit is rolled and the Flechette crit effect is applied. Would Wedge now be activated immediately and so not able to move as part of the squadron token? A similar situation could occur if Wedge was double tapping the Raider (from Yavaris close by), would he be able to take a second shot if the flechette crit deactivated him after the first?

Edit: Additionally, if the squadron command activating Wedge came from a ship with Adar Tallon on board would the Flechette crit effect negate Tallon's ability to set Wedge back to being inactivated?

Edited January 31, 2017 by Mad Cat

[Thraug 1,066]

I believe once a squad is activated Flachette Torps cannot deny it all of it's abilities, move and fire. Same if it's activated with Yavaaris.

[Mad Cat 2,250]

I see.

So the first thing I should do when spending a squadron token on Wedge is set his activation slider to activated. Then I resolve all his moving and shooting. It hasn't been important but I have always moved the slider at the end of each squadron's actions. That makes things simpler.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Mad Cat

[Drasnighta 26,832]

2 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

but I have always moved the slider at the end of each squadron's actions. 

 

That's because its the rules

 

RRG, Page 12 "Squadron Activation"

• After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that it has activated.

[Gowtah 196]

Even if the tab is set after the squadron activation, Flechette torps doesn't stop an activation in its tracks, because the check on the tab colour is before the squadron is activated:  "A squadron cannot activate if the color and icon of its activation slider do not match the initiative token." (p12).

Also, you can Adar all you want, because Adar tallon happens "after you resolve a squad command".

 

[Drasnighta 26,832]

7 minutes ago, Gowtah said:

Even if the tab is set after the squadron activation, Flechette torps doesn't stop an activation in its tracks, because the check on the tab colour is before the squadron is activated:  "A squadron cannot activate if the color and icon of its activation slider do not match the initiative token." (p12).

That's the answer we came to in December, after all

 

 

[Gowtah 196]

Yeah, I must admit I've been out of the loop

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Its still good to know there's general agreeance out there.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

Flechette Torpedoes should limit a Yavaris double tap to a single attack.

We all agree that the squadron's slider is not toggled at the end of its activation.

The toggling of the slider signifies the end of the squadron's activation.

Thus if a squadron activated by Yavaris attacks, and is subsequently hit by torpedoes, it must toggle is slider prior to what would be the second attack.

However, since the slider has now been toggled, that signals the end of the squadron's activation.

A squadron that has been activated cannot subsequently attack.

 

Timeline:

1) Yavaris Activates

2) Squadron does not move and attacks target

3) Target uses a crit to proc Torpedoes

4) Squadon toggles its slider

5) Squadron's activation is ended because its slider has been toggled

Edited January 31, 2017 by Warlord Zepnick

[Gowtah 196]

4 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

The toggling of the slider signifies the end of the squadron's activation.

No, it doesn't. It is usually done at the end, but it has no effect in itself.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Gowtah said:

No, it doesn't. It is usually done at the end, but it has no effect in itself.

It sure does.

 

RRG, Page 12 "Squadron Activation"

• After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that it has activated.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Warlord Zepnick

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

3 hours ago, Mad Cat said:

Wedge is activated by a squadron token and is already at range 1 of an enemy Raider armed with Flechette Torpedoes, Agent Kallus and Quad Laser Turrets. Wedge is unengaged and wishes to fire at the Raider then move away to pin some Tie Bombers.

Wedge fires and the QLTs give a counter attack of one blue die, added to this is a black die from Kallus.

A Black hit/Crit is rolled and the Flechette crit effect is applied. Would Wedge now be activated immediately and so not able to move as part of the squadron token? A similar situation could occur if Wedge was double tapping the Raider (from Yavaris close by), would he be able to take a second shot if the flechette crit deactivated him after the first?

Edit: Additionally, if the squadron command activating Wedge came from a ship with Adar Tallon on board would the Flechette crit effect negate Tallon's ability to set Wedge back to being inactivated?

No, he may not subsequently move because his activation was cut short by the torpedoes.

[Gowtah 196]

9 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

It sure does.

 

RRG, Page 12 "Squadron Activation"

• After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that it has activated.

Yeah, it lets you track if a squadron has activated. Which has no effect on the current activation because it is checked only before activating a squadron. Have you read the previous posts? Or the thread linked up there?

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

3 minutes ago, Gowtah said:

Yeah, it lets you track if a squadron has activated. Which has no effect on the current activation because it is checked only before activating a squadron. Have you read the previous posts? Or the thread linked up there?

I did.

Can you attack with a squadron if its slider has been toggled to indicate that it has already completed its activation?

That's sort of where I am getting at, but I can see why there is this alternative argument.

[Gowtah 196]

 

3 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Can you attack with a squadron if its slider has been toggled to indicate that it has already completed its activation?

Yes, because "completed its activation" is language that is nowhere to be found in the rules under the relevant section regarding the tab being switched, i.e. you're not reading the rule bit you quoted right.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

Your interpretation would completely swallow the rule.

If you're saying that I can attack with a slider that has been already toggled, then I can have unlimited attacks.

So that can't be the case. Once the slider has been toggled, the squadron can take no further action.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

The only time you "Check" to see if a Squadron is Activated, is at the Start, when you go to select it to Activate it.

Sure, you can make me Toggle the slider halfway through the activation if you want...  But nowhere does that say it stops an activation already started.

 

Because I activated - and activated says I get to Move and Shoot, in any order.  Full Stop.  If I was activated with Yavaris, I may shoot twice if I did not Move.

If the intent for Flechette Torpedoes was to stop an activation in process, then it should say so.  It does not say so.  That is in inference of rules that has no place or precedent in the squadron rules.

 

Your argument of "unlimited attacks" is a fallacy at best, because all I get to do with an Activation is MOVE (once) and ATTACK (once) in either order....   HOW do you get Unlimited attacks?  There's NO way that can happen, ebcause you attack ONCE, and then MOVE once - Or MOVE once, and then ATTACK once, and then you are Toggled ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, either by Flechettes, or by your Own Activation.

Then I am activated, net result is done.  Dusted.  Activated.

ADAR TALLON can let me do it AGAIN, again, ONCE.  But that's a 10pt upgrde that only works ONCE.  So it **** well better work.

 

 

 

Note:  I specify Squadron activation, because they are entirely different, and have entirely different rules, and an entirely different section in the RRG to a Ship activation.

[Gowtah 196]

Heh, it's not an interpretation, just basic comprehension.

The only rule regarding sliders is that you cannot activate a squadron that is not of the current round colour.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Gowtah

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

The only time you "Check" to see if a Squadron is Activated, is at the Start, when you go to select it to Activate it.

Sure, you can make me Toggle the slider halfway through the activation if you want...  But nowhere does that say it stops an activation already started.

 

Because I activated - and activated says I get to Move and Shoot, in any order.  Full Stop.  If I was activated with Yavaris, I may shoot twice if I did not Move.

If the intent for Flechette Torpedoes was to stop an activation in process, then it should say so.  It does not say so.  That is in inference of rules that has no place or precedent in the squadron rules.

 

Your argument of "unlimited attacks" is a fallacy at best, because all I get to do with an Activation is MOVE (once) and ATTACK (once) in either order....   HOW do you get Unlimited attacks?  There's NO way that can happen, ebcause you attack ONCE, and then MOVE once - Or MOVE once, and then ATTACK once, and then you are Toggled ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, either by Flechettes, or by your Own Activation.

Then I am activated, net result is done.  Dusted.  Activated.

ADAR TALLON can let me do it AGAIN, again, ONCE.  But that's a 10pt upgrde that only works ONCE.  So it **** well better work.

 

 

 

Note:  I specify Squadron activation, because they are entirely different, and have entirely different rules, and an entirely different section in the RRG to a Ship activation.

It does not need to expressly state that the activation is stopped. It is heavily implied from the core mechanics of the game.

 

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

2 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

If you're saying that I can attack with a slider that has been already toggled, then I can have unlimited attacks.

Wait, where do you get that?  

Squadrons are activated during the Squadron Phase. Squadrons can also be activated during the Ship Phase when a ship resolves a [squadron] command.

• When a squadron is activated during the Squadron Phase, it can move or attack, but not both.
• When a squadron is activated by a [squadron] command, it can move and attack in any order.
• After a squadron activates, toggle its activation slider to track that it has activated.
• A squadron cannot activate if the color and icon of its activation slider do not match the initiative token.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

It does not need to expressly state that the activation is stopped. It is heavily implied from the core mechanics of the game.

 

Sorry.  The Rule States:

• A squadron cannot activate if the color and icon of its activation slider do not match the initiative token.

 

I'm not Activating it.  I'm finishing my Activation.

 

Your "Heavy  Implication" is Gross BS at best.

[Gowtah 196]

Also, "after a squadron activates" does not necessarily mean after it is done with the activation. And any sane person will figure out that sliding the tab right as you pick the fig to place it in range will save you a lot of hassle.

[Warlord Zepnick 324]

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Sorry.  The Rule States:

• A squadron cannot activate if the color and icon of its activation slider do not match the initiative token.

 

I'm not Activating it.  I'm finishing my Activation.

 

Your "Heavy  Implication" is Gross BS at best.

Still salty about RLBs I see.

 

Looks like yet another card will have to be FAQed.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

Still salty about RLBs I see.

 

Looks like yet another card will have to be FAQed.

 

**** it.  I'm done.;  That's the last disrespect I'm taking.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

You don't normally change the slider after an attack.

You normally change it after the activation.

So, if the color of the slider is what's preventing you from making infinite attacks, it's not working, because the first attack doesn't trigger the switching of the activation slider.