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Anyone else slightly disappointed in the scale of the game?

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31 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

i get more of a satisfaction fielding a giant model than i do fielding a ton of models....

The few times ive put my Ta'unar on the table for 40k i had a massive grin on my face the whole game lol...such a big model

When I had bought my Decimator, just for kicks I had to field it together with slave-1 and the shuttle! The look on my friends face when he got to the table to play me was hilarious!

Of course I didn't stand a chance but it was a **** fun list :)

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52 minutes ago, jek said:

As a new to the world player I find it interesting and different enough, I feel like a lot of people just hear elves/dwarves/undead and think well this is tropey, without looking into the meat of lore, and it really doesn't take that much lore starting to make it unique...just the few darknesses/wars and the creation of the runes made this world unique enough for me to find it interesting, but that may be after growing up on a bunch of books written about a variety of DnD campaign settings you just learn that there is a lot more the a world than just the basic visuals.

Yeah, I agree that there is a lot of uniqueness here, along with just enough generic fantasy to grab new people.  

I'm also not using "generic fantasy" as a pejorative.  So many settings riff on old school D&D or LOTR to such an extent that the settings that are truly different come across as changing things just for the sake of coming up with something different (Eberron), or end up just being wacky as hell (malifaux), or a combination of both (age of sigmar).  

I mean, if you think back to it, even Old World Warhammer Fantasy didn't do a heck of a lot that was all that different or unique, except for Chaos and Skaven.  The rest of the setting has been a trope since Gary Gygax started writing.  I dare say that the only fantasy setting that is really original and widely known in the hobby is Iron Kingdoms.  Ok, fine, Malifaux gets points for originality as well, but it's just so **** weird (no pun intended).

In the Runebound Universe, you have some of the staples of fantasy (undead bad guys, human good guys, elves, dwarves, etc) but there is a unique twist on them.  With my admittedly limited grasp of the lore, here it seems like the Daqan are the weakening empire with glory days long past (instead of using the elves as the whipping boys of history), elves ride giant cats (and are...angels...or something?), while seeming to combine the "woodsy archer" and "arrogant wizard" tropes that other games tend to split into subraces.  Meanwhile Waiqar has the potential to be much more than your standard moustache twirling villain than most undead factions, although it's still early and he could still fall into the "just as planned" trope.  And while plenty of games do the "spiky demonic bad guys" thing, the Uthuk could really be differentiated with their desert nomad tribe vibe and a focus on insectoid demons as well as the "fiery horned dude with an axe" kind of demon.

I guess what I'm saying is that we REALLY need an RPG set in this universe, or at least a nice solid lore book/atlas like they have done with Arkham, Netrunner, and Legend of the Five Rings.

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Im sorry, but thats the first thing I thought of looking for, and was REALLY dissapointed with 200 points.

 

I just made a 200pt list.. it has 3 units, and 1 of those units is just a filler rune golem, which will either do nothing because its so slow, or get murdered quickly.


++ Standard Army (Daqan Lords : Wave 0 (2017)) [198 Points] ++

+ Infantry +

Spearmen [95 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Eagle-Banner Bearer, Front Line Rune Golem, Kari Wraithstalker, Shield Wall, Trumpets

Spearmen [86 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Citadel Weapons Master, Front Line Rune Golem, Raven-Pennon Bearer, Shield Wall, Trumpets

+ Siege +

Rune Golems [17 Points]: 1 Tray

++ Total: [198 Points] ++

 

I wouldnt even call this OP..  this is like standard stuff here.  ... and thats all I need to field it.  Please note that other than the upcoming special character box... I can simply buy another core set, and piecemeal the rest thru btown and ebay ... without buying anything else. 

 

Now they want me to put THAT list on a 3'x6' table..  really FFG... really?

Edited by Trafficman

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If you build a list with as few units as possible, of course you're not gonna have many units on the table.  You literally designed your list that way.

I can just as easily design a list with 12 units.

Building your list at the extremes doesn't make for very good examples.

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9 minutes ago, Trafficman said:

Im sorry, but thats the first thing I thought of looking for, and was REALLY dissapointed with 200 points.

 

I just made a 200pt list.. it has 3 units, and 1 of those units is just a filler rune golem, which will either do nothing because its so slow, or get murdered quickly.


++ Standard Army (Daqan Lords : Wave 0 (2017)) [198 Points] ++

+ Infantry +

Spearmen [95 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Eagle-Banner Bearer, Front Line Rune Golem, Kari Wraithstalker, Shield Wall, Trumpets

Spearmen [86 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Citadel Weapons Master, Front Line Rune Golem, Raven-Pennon Bearer, Shield Wall, Trumpets

+ Siege +

Rune Golems [17 Points]: 1 Tray

++ Total: [198 Points] ++

 

I wouldnt even call this OP..  this is like standard stuff here.  ... and thats all I need to field it.  Please note that other than the upcoming special character box... I can simply buy another core set, and piecemeal the rest thru btown and ebay ... without buying anything else. 

 

Now they want me to put THAT list on a 3'x6' table..  really FFG... really?

So...are you just trying to make the smallest amount of units you could to max out the points value? I'm sort of lost on the point you are trying to make here. Is it that you feel 200pt is low because you were able to cram 90% of your army points into two units? that seems like like a bad game issue and more like a list building issue, not sure why you would ever make a list like this as it is easy to get around and hard to defend against...but hey I am not sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish besides being mad about the game based on the list YOU made...

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11 minutes ago, jek said:

So...are you just trying to make the smallest amount of units you could to max out the points value? I'm sort of lost on the point you are trying to make here. Is it that you feel 200pt is low because you were able to cram 90% of your army points into two units? that seems like like a bad game issue and more like a list building issue, not sure why you would ever make a list like this as it is easy to get around and hard to defend against...but hey I am not sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish besides being mad about the game based on the list YOU made...

Agreed jek, you can easily fit a good number of decent units in 200 points.  Granted, this is what's out now, but I'll adjust as more releases and I have more options

Kari Wraithstalker - Wraith Step

3x3 Spearmen - Front Line Rune Golem, War Crier, Shield Wall, Trumpets

1x2 Rune Golem

1x2 Oathsworn Cavalry - Master Crafted Weapons, Rank Discipline

1x2 Oathsworn Cavalry -  Master Crafted Weapons, Rank Discipline 

195 points

 

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33 minutes ago, Trafficman said:

Im sorry, but thats the first thing I thought of looking for, and was REALLY dissapointed with 200 points.

 

I just made a 200pt list.. it has 3 units, and 1 of those units is just a filler rune golem, which will either do nothing because its so slow, or get murdered quickly.


++ Standard Army (Daqan Lords : Wave 0 (2017)) [198 Points] ++

+ Infantry +

Spearmen [95 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Eagle-Banner Bearer, Front Line Rune Golem, Kari Wraithstalker, Shield Wall, Trumpets

Spearmen [86 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Citadel Weapons Master, Front Line Rune Golem, Raven-Pennon Bearer, Shield Wall, Trumpets

+ Siege +

Rune Golems [17 Points]: 1 Tray

++ Total: [198 Points] ++

 

I wouldnt even call this OP..  this is like standard stuff here.  ... and thats all I need to field it.  Please note that other than the upcoming special character box... I can simply buy another core set, and piecemeal the rest thru btown and ebay ... without buying anything else. 

 

Now they want me to put THAT list on a 3'x6' table..  really FFG... really?


I don't think you've actually played Runewars much, if your complaint is that you want to fill up all the space on the board.

I'll say again; there are games for this. Go play them if that's what you want.

Runewars is a game of position, maneuver, and bluff.

Pretty hard to maneuver or bluff if the entire board is covered in trays. The table size exists to give you options, not for you to cover.

EDIT: The list you put forward is also pretty much terrible, both at straight combat AND at most objectives, so... I guess I'm not seeing the issue. Are you complaining that the game lets you be bad at building lists?

Edited by Tvayumat

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35 minutes ago, Trafficman said:

Im sorry, but thats the first thing I thought of looking for, and was REALLY dissapointed with 200 points.

 

I just made a 200pt list.. it has 3 units, and 1 of those units is just a filler rune golem, which will either do nothing because its so slow, or get murdered quickly.


++ Standard Army (Daqan Lords : Wave 0 (2017)) [198 Points] ++

+ Infantry +

Spearmen [95 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Eagle-Banner Bearer, Front Line Rune Golem, Kari Wraithstalker, Shield Wall, Trumpets

Spearmen [86 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Citadel Weapons Master, Front Line Rune Golem, Raven-Pennon Bearer, Shield Wall, Trumpets

+ Siege +

Rune Golems [17 Points]: 1 Tray

++ Total: [198 Points] ++

 

I wouldnt even call this OP..  this is like standard stuff here.  ... and thats all I need to field it.  Please note that other than the upcoming special character box... I can simply buy another core set, and piecemeal the rest thru btown and ebay ... without buying anything else. 

 

Now they want me to put THAT list on a 3'x6' table..  really FFG... really?

What exactly is your complaint here?  Is it that you can't fit a ton of max size units loaded to the brim with upgrades in a standard size list?  And some gripe about the size of the play surface?

I mean, I don't know what to say.  Upgrade slots are options, not mandates.  There are very few examples in any of FFGs miniatures games where going whole hog on the upgrades is anything approaching a good idea.  Units also don't have to be max size.  

What are you trying to show with this list?  It really isn't clear.

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6 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

What exactly is your complaint here?  Is it that you can't fit a ton of max size units loaded to the brim with upgrades in a standard size list?  And some gripe about the size of the play surface?

I mean, I don't know what to say.  Upgrade slots are options, not mandates.  There are very few examples in any of FFGs miniatures games where going whole hog on the upgrades is anything approaching a good idea.  Units also don't have to be max size.  

What are you trying to show with this list?  It really isn't clear.

What? This doesn't look fun to you? Look at all the tactical depth!

BOTBG-ROTK.jpg.d5352300d70f698a7715b8ee7a250c21.jpg

/s, because the internet broke Poe's law

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45 minutes ago, Trafficman said:

Im sorry, but thats the first thing I thought of looking for, and was REALLY dissapointed with 200 points.

 

I just made a 200pt list.. it has 3 units, and 1 of those units is just a filler rune golem, which will either do nothing because its so slow, or get murdered quickly.


++ Standard Army (Daqan Lords : Wave 0 (2017)) [198 Points] ++

+ Infantry +

Spearmen [95 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Eagle-Banner Bearer, Front Line Rune Golem, Kari Wraithstalker, Shield Wall, Trumpets

Spearmen [86 Points]: 3x3 Trays, Citadel Weapons Master, Front Line Rune Golem, Raven-Pennon Bearer, Shield Wall, Trumpets

+ Siege +

Rune Golems [17 Points]: 1 Tray

++ Total: [198 Points] ++

 

I wouldnt even call this OP..  this is like standard stuff here.  ... and thats all I need to field it.  Please note that other than the upcoming special character box... I can simply buy another core set, and piecemeal the rest thru btown and ebay ... without buying anything else. 

 

Now they want me to put THAT list on a 3'x6' table..  really FFG... really?

 

That list looks very easy to outmaneuver and youll have little to no gain from objectives.

Whatever size FFG decide to do tournaments though, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from playing regular games of any size you can agree upon. 200pt right now seem to be a sweetspot for allowing everything from few tank units (as your above) to plenty of weaker more maneuverable units with enough room to actually use strategy and yet finish the game withing resonable time.

It might change though, Armada went up in points officially a few waves in unless im mistaken and RMG might very well do the same.

 

Dont make a big deal out of something that is not.

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its a good idea to have one giant tarpit of units, not as many as you can fit in the list. Objectives, MSU's, activation numbers, and of course upgrades are all a major factor.

I actually expect more mid-tier size units than large blobs. Two 2x2s rather than a 3x3 decked out for instance, it gives you multiple activations and split-threat syndrome for your opponent (Which do i go for first!??!?!)

A 3x3 pretty much will never flank anyone either. And there are objectives based on getting a flank so GL with that.

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Yeah, I imagine they picked 200 pts to allow for fast tournament play.

There's no reason at all that people couldn't bust out a 300, or even 400 pt game if they wanted something truly epic.
That just wouldn't be very good for tournament play with timed rounds.

...and even then, there's nothing stopping a community from running an all-day epic-scale tournament with 300 or 400pt lists.

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Armada now plays at 400pts, but on Saturday I played in the finale of a Corellian Conflict campaign - 3vs3, 1500pts on either side. OOOOOooooh boy, it was glorious.

But it also took seven hours. If you and five friends want to get together and run a mammoth game on a 12ft board, the game lets you do that - hell I wouldn't be surprised if it encouraged it in campaingn play, further down the line.

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8 minutes ago, banjobenito said:

Armada now plays at 400pts, but on Saturday I played in the finale of a Corellian Conflict campaign - 3vs3, 1500pts on either side. OOOOOooooh boy, it was glorious.

But it also took seven hours. If you and five friends want to get together and run a mammoth game on a 12ft board, the game lets you do that - hell I wouldn't be surprised if it encouraged it in campaingn play, further down the line.

Wow.  I was so pumped about the games release that I never even thought about a CC style campaign.  Having four factions allows ideas like striking alliances, having massive free for all battles, and even making unique "units of renown" cards for existing units.  Like a Citadel Elite unit of spearmen, higher cost, different dial, different upgrades, different stats....

Man.  I can't believe that thought never crossed my mind.

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Back when I used to play Warhammer/40K (2010 at the most recent) both allowed for huge armies and didn't really start to get fun till the 1K points mark. Meaning anything less was boring or too clunky. At least with Runewars, the small scale works great and can ramp up easily, whereas wargames that start large have a harder time of ramping down. 

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2 hours ago, Ecgtheow said:

This game is going to be perfect for campaign play, I'm really hoping FFG jumps on it sooner rather than later. 

They have explicitly stated their intention to do so in the launch kit, both with quarterly challenge kits, and a free to download core set campaign that they haven't published yet.

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2 hours ago, Hawkman2000 said:

Back when I used to play Warhammer/40K (2010 at the most recent) both allowed for huge armies and didn't really start to get fun till the 1K points mark. Meaning anything less was boring or too clunky. At least with Runewars, the small scale works great and can ramp up easily, whereas wargames that start large have a harder time of ramping down. 

It's all about when you got in I guess.  When I started playing 40k (Just after 2nd edition dropped)  it was still essentially a platoon level game.  Folks would play big battles but they got reaaaally slow. Wasn't til 3rd edition that big games became the preferrable option.

8 hours ago, Wispur said:

Nope.  Not at all disappointed.

For larger fantasy games, I have Kings of War.
For mid-size, I now have this.
For skirmishes, I have Malifaux (though I wish that was more traditional fantasy)

Agreed.  KoW is my go to game for company/battalion level and Song of Blades and Heroes for skirmish.   Truth is I already had Dragon Rampant for Runewars size games, but Runewars is a completely different gaming experience with a great ruleset.

I don't need another KoW size game.  Runewars is a great in-between size.

Edited by eilif

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7 hours ago, Wispur said:

If you build a list with as few units as possible, of course you're not gonna have many units on the table.  You literally designed your list that way.

I can just as easily design a list with 12 units.

Building your list at the extremes doesn't make for very good examples.

Did that. 6 Lancers and add a few more. 

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The scale of Runewars is a kind of compromise.  I recall in the Warhammer Fantasy days the amount of models on the table mostly worked against the game.  There was too much book keeping and far too much rules complexity to play a game without a ton of errors and oversights.  Plus the assemble/paint requirements where absolutely ridiculous for some armies.  

Runewars has a very simple mechanic but a lot of tactical/strategic decision is driven by the knowledge of what is possible on the dials (two sided dials mind you).  Its really such a critical thing and even with just the core set its hard to remember what each army can do with its dials without a reference.  I think if there was any more on the table its just going to get out of hand.  With experience I imagine people will be able to up the points but right now even a game sub 200 points requires you to remember an overwhelming amount of information to make wise decision and I'm constantly finding out things like "oh you can attack on initiative 3?" Such a vital piece of information that can completely turn the tide of the entire game in a single moment, yet its hidden on a dial that your not able to look at on your opponents side of the table.  In a lot of ways this is far worse than Warhammer in terms of complexity.  I'm sure in time we will get intimately familiar with it but imagine the game 5 years from now when we have 60 different dials to contend with or 5 or 6 different armies!  It will be impossible to play this game without player index cards and player aides.

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I think as well it's partly been designed so it's not just the same game as other war game style miniatures games recreated by a different company with different pieces but not really offering anything new, FFG have gone for their own take on the genre to bring something new to the table (I'm quite pleased with that so I'm unashamedly not editing it out!) which is sounding great so far.

 

Plus the limitations may give it a nice balance of being a tabletop miniatures battle but with some restrictions and dynamics that also give it some of the challenges of a boardgame perhaps missing from some of its rivals, a sort of merger of the two almost, overall I think this will work well and hopefully set it apart from the others so it plays differently but in a way that's its strong point.

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