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jonboyjon1990

Anyone else slightly disappointed in the scale of the game?

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10 hours ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

I'm not really talking about the starter set. I'm talking about the scale of the game in general. 200 points is the 'standard' list and it will at most include around 8 units and 50 figures. That's more like warband vs warband, rather than huge epic army vs huge epic army

Well, one of the reasons that Warhammer Fantasy 'died' and was reborn as Age of Sigmar is that you needed MASSIVE quantities of models.  People don't like buying, assembling and painting 100 of the same goblin...  for one unit.  Huge Epic Army vs. Huge Epic Army is just a hard sell in 28mm scale.  It's easier in 6mm scale, but then the models are tiny and with very little detail, so it instead becomes a hard sell for people who care about the models.

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The more I read you guys, the more my knowledge of the minis games grows up. My main problem with Warhammer was clearly that. You buy a full unit or a full set of minis to reinforce your actual units and you find yourself with a lot of work to do before aligning your soldiers on the table. Oh well, I did it with my Bretonnian army and don't regret it as I see my dozens of knights/bowmen/men at arms and my heroes facing the ennemy. Knowing that that army has gone away by now and that rumors piled upon rumors, it doesn't seem to be able to find them officialy cast one day... I don't regret nor my buy nor the time engulfed in making them playable. But then... I think I'm done with it. 

I don't really care about the amount of micro-details actually.  Because i become quickly bored of painting details upon details. Even glueing small belt bags or potions or I don't know which small item we are able to equip every mini with. So yes, everyone knowing my life so far has understood that i like minis game for the sole word of "game"...more or less, I like painting for fun and following the idea of the moment :P

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I really think Runewars is going to be a great game with a lot of hobby potential, but comparatively little hobby requirement.  In other words, I'm pretty sure that 2x core sets worth of one faction, which is roughly a "standard game" will require at most 30-60 min of assembly before you're ready to play a game.  You can spend far more time converting (reposing) and painting models if you want, but that's optional.  For a Warhammer 40k "standard game", you'll need 1850 points of models, which costs $$$ and takes days and days to assemble.

In other words, if you want to paint/convert/snazz up your models, you can...  but you don't have to.

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16 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

You can spend far more time converting (reposing) and painting models if you want, but that's optional.

Interestingly, at one of the GenCon videos they said that while the infantry units have four sculpts each they may look at having adjustable poses in the future to boost variation.

Edited by Muz333

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Going on the original idea of this post I really don't get the whole complaint, every miniature game you will see played has a sliding scale of game size and then a STANDARD size for tournament play.  I like that FFG is sticking to a lower point size, though I could easily see it increasing like Armada did once they have more than the starter box units released, because it means game time will be kept down and thereby tournament time will be kept down.  Fast brutal action with devastating results is far more fun to me than several hour long games where each action I roll 40 dice then you roll 20 then 10 then 5 then 2 models are removed.  

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4 minutes ago, jek said:

Going on the original idea of this post I really don't get the whole complaint, every miniature game you will see played has a sliding scale of game size and then a STANDARD size for tournament play.  I like that FFG is sticking to a lower point size, though I could easily see it increasing like Armada did once they have more than the starter box units released, because it means game time will be kept down and thereby tournament time will be kept down.  Fast brutal action with devastating results is far more fun to me than several hour long games where each action I roll 40 dice then you roll 20 then 10 then 5 then 2 models are removed.  

It should also be noted that the Escalation event at launch will feature a lower point size to allow people time to build up their armies to the new tournament standard.

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Just now, Muz333 said:

It should also be noted that the Escalation event at launch will feature a lower point size to allow people time to build up their armies to the new tournament standard.

Super excited for that by the way!

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And while it's right to come back to the original topic, I must tell you a small story that maybe some among you don't know :

If anyone has played Memoir'44, they know that the core set was composed of the stricly minimum yet fully operational material. Minis are not top notch but good enough to play. Memoir'44 and the original Battlelore (also edited by DaysofWonder) were made by Richard Borg who has moved I don't know where to make a 1st WW of his Memoir'44 System (the original Battlelore was abandoned after a few expansions, the fire didn't lit up...I still have two core sets and one expansion at home...). Memoir'44 then expanded with new themed boards, new armies (British, Japanese, Russian, Resistance, Special units), new minis packs featuring a lot of replay value (tiles, tokens, cards, new historical missions, etc.) And then went the overlord format who was technically putting two standard bards aside. And to bring depth to it, they edited large scaled boards cfor the game format called "Breakthrough" and finishing the expansion of the game to the "Overthrough" format (3 breakthrough boards adding and depth vertically and lenght horizontaly) and with the pre-printed battlemaps who align the equivalent of 6 breakthrough boards...

So let's begin with or halve armies of skeletons and Daqans and let's see if FFG find it affordable and benefic for their wallet to offer us an expansion to their new minis game. Fingers crossed :)

Edited by Elrad

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The smaller scale is actually a plus for me.  Fewer miniatures to paint, store, and transport.  Quick games that don't take 3 hours to play.  Slightly smaller play area needed.  as a WFb veteran I feel you. I often fielded armies consisting of about 200+ minis in that system.  It looks awesome, but it's also a reason why I don't play it anymore and shied away from getting into kings of war as well.  

I think it will hopefully make it far less intimidating to get into for both veterans of mini games and new players.

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19 minutes ago, Dosiere said:

The smaller scale is actually a plus for me.  Fewer miniatures to paint, store, and transport.  Quick games that don't take 3 hours to play.  Slightly smaller play area needed.  as a WFb veteran I feel you. I often fielded armies consisting of about 200+ minis in that system.  It looks awesome, but it's also a reason why I don't play it anymore and shied away from getting into kings of war as well.  

I think it will hopefully make it far less intimidating to get into for both veterans of mini games and new players.

KoW is super quick once you have the rules down. Nothing like the potential snooze fest that every WFB game had the potential to become. 

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True, the gameplay is super quick.  The movement phase in particular is shockingly superior to WFB imo.  I was referring to the scale of the game though, regarding the number of miniatures.  I really wanted to start a new army for KoW, but just couldn't bring myself to do it as it was roughly on par with what. WFB army is.  In my case I was looking at about 140 minis to paint, and I just couldn't get myself motivated to plow through it.  

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Just now, Dosiere said:

True, the gameplay is super quick.  The movement phase in particular is shockingly superior to WFB imo.  I was referring to the scale of the game though, regarding the number of miniatures.  I really wanted to start a new army for KoW, but just couldn't bring myself to do it as it was roughly on par with what. WFB army is.  In my case I was looking at about 140 minis to paint, and I just couldn't get myself motivated to plow through it.  

I'm sure eventually we will all reach the point of having 150+ models and possibly running ridiculous pt games but it is nice to only have 50ish models to paint to have a tourney army...

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1 minute ago, Dosiere said:

True, the gameplay is super quick.  The movement phase in particular is shockingly superior to WFB imo.  I was referring to the scale of the game though, regarding the number of miniatures.  I really wanted to start a new army for KoW, but just couldn't bring myself to do it as it was roughly on par with what. WFB army is.  In my case I was looking at about 140 minis to paint, and I just couldn't get myself motivated to plow through it.  

The nice thing about KoW is you don't have to have all the minis required for a unit. For a regiment (20) you could have roughly 15 figs. Make a sweet diorama.

The miniature count is a big plus for RW.

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6 hours ago, Kubernes said:

If people really want to, just say that a miniature actually represents several. It's what a lot of historical games will do at certain scales or time frames.

But it still works better at 15mm, where you have more minis per base or simply more bases (even if they die a bit faster) and the ratio of model size to distance between units is more realistic (it does not look like a spitting contest).

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9 hours ago, costi said:

But it still works better at 15mm, where you have more minis per base or simply more bases (even if they die a bit faster) and the ratio of model size to distance between units is more realistic (it does not look like a spitting contest).

Bro, sorry but I want more 28mm guys, I dont' care about 15mm figs.  they're completely uninteresting to me and I won't buy them.  I'm not alone, in fact, I'm in the majority, which is why 15mm games don't do as well as 28mm

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9 minutes ago, Taki said:

Bro, sorry but I want more 28mm guys, I dont' care about 15mm figs.  they're completely uninteresting to me and I won't buy them.  I'm not alone, in fact, I'm in the majority, which is why 15mm games don't do as well as 28mm

Are sure about that? Aren't there many historical games in 15 or even 10mm and as far as i now that is also no small market.

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Just now, Iceeagle85 said:

Are sure about that? Aren't there many historical games in 15 or even 10mm and as far as i now that is also no small market.

I've gone to a fair few historical minis conventions, it may be just my area but htere aren't many 10-15mm games that were being played.  I remember DBM and DBA, and one Napoleonic game, but the vast majority of the tables were playing 25-28mm, who knows, maybe overseas it's different 

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1 hour ago, Taki said:

Bro, sorry but I want more 28mm guys, I dont' care about 15mm figs.  they're completely uninteresting to me and I won't buy them.  I'm not alone, in fact, I'm in the majority, which is why 15mm games don't do as well as 28mm

I'm not saying this should be in 15mm, just that 15mm gives a better impression of large armies.

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1 hour ago, Taki said:

I've gone to a fair few historical minis conventions, it may be just my area but htere aren't many 10-15mm games that were being played.  I remember DBM and DBA, and one Napoleonic game, but the vast majority of the tables were playing 25-28mm, who knows, maybe overseas it's different 

Ok i could be wrong but Flames of War is quite sucessful and they are 10 or 15mm same for Dropzone Commander. And what about the games from Spartan Games, many of them are 10/15 or whatever non 28mm scale they are.

Edited by Iceeagle85

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Trays and Bases are all that matters in the game, essentially.

No reason why you couldn't basically find your generic 'thing' (Human Soldier, Skeletal Archer, et al), scale it down, and have it printed 2-3 or even 4 to a "Base" in the smaller Scale.

Substitute the Models.  You're still going "Model to model" effectively, its just that your "model" depicts a number of soldiers rather than an individual.

Boom.

Visually Large Army.

Doesn't make a difference to the Rules.

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9 minutes ago, Iceeagle85 said:

Ok i could be wrong but Flames of War is quite sucessful and they are 10 or 15mm same for Dropzone Commander. And what about the games from Spartan Games, many of them are 10/15 or whatever non 28mm scale they are.

I'd forgotten about those, good point.  Still though, I don't think they really match the sales for 28s

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7 minutes ago, Taki said:

I'd forgotten about those, good point.  Still though, I don't think they really match the sales for 28s

You're probably right but at least Flames of War exists for quite some time although you have companies like Plastic Soldier Company (or something like that) which are producing cheaper models in the same scale, so i think they are quite sucessful.

Who knows if this game is sucessful we might perhaps see a 15mm Runwars game.

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