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AndrewMM

Call of the ravens timing (and Bounty Hunter related topic)

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I was playing this weekend, and used this card for the first time. It reads: "Exhaust this card at the start of your turn...". Following the step-by-step OL turn on the manual, first, all the "start of turn" things happen, and then cards are refreshed. Does that mean that as soon as this card is exhausted, is refreshed again on the next step? Not that one can use it again on that turn, but just to confirm if this is the timing.

On the Bounty Hunter topic, the question is on the Lie in Wait card. This card is exhausted during your turn, and then it takes real effect on the next one, "When you refresh this card...". So, could you track a monster "at the start of your turn", before attacking him with Lie in Wait?

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1) Yes, cards exhausted during the start of turn phase refresh before the perform actions step begins. This has no real relevance for Call of Raven but it is sometimes crucial for other cards. For example the OL can exhaust Staff of Shadows twice in his turn - once in the start of turn step and once in the perform actions step or end of turn step.

2) No, not possible. "During your turn" abilities may be used in the perform actions step only. This was an older uFAQ by FFG. 

Edited by Sadgit

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3 hours ago, Sadgit said:

For example the OL can exhaust Staff of Shadows twice in his turn - once in the start of turn step and once in the perform actions step or end of turn step.

The stuff of nightmares!

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Because this "tap - untap immediately" seemed weird to me, I asked FFG for a ruling about it last year. Below is my question and FFG's answer.

Dear FFG, How is the new errata on page 2 of the FAQ about the Overlord turn summary played out? Do overlord cards like Raven's Call and Plot cards like Enthrall that are exhausted during the start of turn unexhaust right after they are exhausted (at II. Refresh cards), or do they unexhaust only the next turn? Thank you for the answer and kind regards.

Answer: Plot cards do not refresh on the turn when they’re exhausted. This appears to have been an oversight when plot cards were first created, I’ll look into adding it in the next FAQ.
 
Thanks for playing,
Kara Centell-Dunk
 
Unfortunately she only answered for plot cards, not for other cards like Call of the Ravens or Staff of Shadows (which I didn't ask about). It might be worth asking for clarification. But whatever ruling is made, I do hope for a same ruling for all types of cards for the sake of consistency.

 

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I do not like the idea of plot cards not refreshing like other cards. Adding another layer of complexity it definitely not what Descent needs at this point.

With the current rules, only plot cards are effected that do not have explicit timing triggers and may be used at the start of turn and in additional steps later in the OL turn. I looked through all available plot cards (200 atm) and found 16 that may be used twice during a turn. Note that many of those can only be used twice in very special situations, e.g. when another OL card or a quest rules affects heroes at the start of the OL turn.  I doubt that the advantage the OL gets is not counter-balanced with the threat cost.

 

Fight with Honor (Belthir)

Hazard Play (Belthir)

Make your Own Luck (Belthir)

Pins and needles (Mirklace Zarihell)

One of Us (Rylan Olliven)

Weakened Spirit (Bol' Goreth)

Nefarius Power (Zachareth)

Dangerous Knowledge (Kyndrithul)

 

Only possible when a hero is charmed at the start of the OL turn

1. When OL uses  Dark Charm or similar to attack with a hero at the start of his turn.

2. During the normal activation of a monster

Misdirection (Ariad)

Scent of Blood (Eliza)

Meat Shield (Splig)

Pacify (Serena)

Solidary Prey (Queen Ariad)

Broken (Kyndrithul)

Explosive Fall (Tristayne)

Only possible in quests that allow reinforcements at the start of turn and in later steps.

Infestation (Verminous) 

Edited by Sadgit

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2 hours ago, Sadgit said:

16 that may be used twice during a turn

Although such shenanigans do allow some cards to be used twice in a given turn, it should also be noted that no extra usages are gained this way — only timings of existing ones are shifted, as the card in question either was not used in the previous turn, or will not be usable in the next one. Right?

2 hours ago, Sadgit said:

Pins and needles (Mirklace)

Zarihell, not Mirklace.

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Thanks for that correction, d20familiar.

You are right, of course. No additional usages would result.

Edited by Sadgit

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On 31/01/2017 at 6:30 AM, Sadgit said:

Meat Shield (Splig)

 

Let me see if I get it straight.

Once Dark charm lands (failed willpower test):

  • That hero ceases to be a hero and became a monster instead for the duration of the effect
  • After the move or attack action is made, the effect instantly ends - the figure return to the role of hero once again, it does not count as a monster for any purposes in the remaining of the OL turn.

Ok, now, to get Goblin uprising - Meat Shield in line to be used, the charmed hero must attack himself adjacent to a monster, then, after the attack vs defense roll is made, any damage suffered by the hero will be transferred to that monster instead. And I get Meat shield gotta get refreshed after that.

The point is... Am I not seeing the whole picture for a better use from this plot card in this situation, or this example is supposed to be just illustrative?

Edited by Dommus

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Above I just listed all plot cards I found that can be used twice in an OL turn with the current set of rules.

I agree that Meat Shield does not make much sense to be used on a charmed Hero in most situations. However, in some situations it might be beneficial to kill a monster (e.g. to get it reinforced somewhere else) or maybe there are certain quest rules where damage done to a certain monster is good for the OL.

Edited by Sadgit
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Quote

Meat Shield & Dark Charm

Another usecase. Let's say we have a high-defence hero (Alice) and a low-defence high-health monster (Bob). Dark Charmed hero-now-monster Alice attacks monster Bob. Poor defence roll ensures lots of hearts for Bob to suffer. The OL uses Meat Shield on monster Bob and chooses a-hero-but-still-a-monster Alice to suffer all the hearts instead.

Best case scenario — Bob is a Dark Elf with Riposte and Alice suffers up to twice the hearts rolled.

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57 minutes ago, d20familiar said:

Dark Charmed hero-now-monster Alice attacks monster Bob.

I don´'t think this would be a legal move, since a dark charmed hero (who counts as a monster while under dark charm) may only attack enemy figures (and himself, but this is a special exception given by the dark charm card) by the core game rules. So attacking a monster is not allowed in this case.

Quote

Declare Weapon and Target: The attacking player chooses which
of his equipped weapons to use for this attack and declares the target
of the attack (a space containing an enemy figure).

 

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1 hour ago, d20familiar said:

Another usecase. Let's say we have a high-defence hero (Alice) and a low-defence high-health monster (Bob). Dark Charmed hero-now-monster Alice attacks monster Bob. Poor defence roll ensures lots of hearts for Bob to suffer. The OL uses Meat Shield on monster Bob and chooses a-hero-but-still-a-monster Alice to suffer all the hearts instead.

Best case scenario — Bob is a Dark Elf with Riposte and Alice suffers up to twice the hearts rolled.

You can't, since both Alice and Bob are both monsters in your example. Attacking another monster is not a valid action for Alice while dark charmed.

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