CC list to stop unbeatable (?) Rebel lists

[Democratus 1,698]

We had our pre-campaign shakedown battles this week. The rebels presented two absolutely bonkers lists and we Imperials can't think of a thing we can do to stop them.

Was wondering if anyone has faced these before (maybe even in CC) and had a way to fight them:

Rebel List 1: Mon Mothma Dodgers

MC30(Admonition), MC30(Foresight), CR90A(Jania's Light, Mothma), CR90A (TRC), CR90A (TRC), Flotilla (Slicer Tools), [Shara Bae, A-Wing, E-Wing]

This list seems impossible to stop due to the difficulty landing damage on the attacking ships. Against our ISD/Interdictor/RhymerBall fleet it did about 4 rams combined with a zillion black dice to destroy an ISD while only losing the flotilla before flying away.

Rebel List 2: Rieekan Rammers

CR90B(Rieekan, Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), Flotilla [2x A-wing]

This list just closes with the enemy and does multiple double-rams. Even killing the ships on the way in can't stop the ramming. 8 activations bled our fleet of options and Imperial capitol ships were taking in excess of 8 damage a round from ramming plus the shooting.

The third list is just a Yavaris/Haven/Pelta/BiggsBall fleet. It's crazy hard to beat but doesn't feel impossible like the other two.

--------------------------

Any advice on how to build a fleet so I can have a chance at a win against these fleets? I'll admit to still being a novice with this game and so I might be missing something critical that could crack the case.

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[Drasnighta 26,833]

Just keep Killing the Rieekan Rammers where ever possible.  They bleed resources constantly.  Every one  you kill is 20 points to Repair.  Just.  Keep.  Killing.  

[Democratus 1,698]

Yeah. The problem is when they just always attack Imp bases and so we lose the25 +x resources plus an ISD on every attack, while they gain a new presence for 25/5 +x.

It's like the Russian front in Axis and Allies. Can you bleed for that long and still have a chance of winning? The world wonders.

[Drasnighta 26,833]

So, Don't Lose

Look at advantageous ways to play...  Parking (Yes, Speed 0) behind an Asteroid and Debris field so they have to come through, land on, and take all of that damage to Ram you is one way...  Because their output of fire is minimal in comparison...  Especailly if you're still Gunnery-Team Front Arcing around.  Having tokens to jump your speed around, also valuable in that regard.

Use the Edge of the Tables to your Advantage as much as possible.  Make them weather and come to you.

Close Range Bomber Patrols.



The list is tough, to be sure...  But its not unbeatable.  

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

14 minutes ago, Democratus said:

Rebel List 1: Mon Mothma Dodgers

MC30(Admonition), MC30(Foresight), CR90A(Jania's Light, Mothma), CR90A (TRC), CR90A (TRC), Flotilla (Slicer Tools), [Shara Bae, A-Wing, E-Wing]

Without rerolls, ordnance, or any other upgrade, the shrimp in this one are just survivors.  They'll be hard to kill, but for that opening round, they can't reliably do anything.  They're the tanks of the list--don't give them free shots on you, but don't put yourself in a bad spot just to dodge their arcs. 

The real threats here are those CR90's, with (IMO) the best single-upgrade build possible.  If you're driving something without evades, you're going to have a bad time.  Keep in mind that those evades are both their offense and their defense, so focus on one corvette at a time to bring the evades down.  It feels like overkill to send an entire rhymerball to kill one CR90, but remember, even forcing him to exhaust both evades before he attacks forces the choice of burning them or not using TRC for his attacks.  Focus down one CR90 after another, don't even go for the MC30's, and burn up his defense tokens.
 

14 minutes ago, Democratus said:

Rebel List 2: Rieekan Rammers

CR90B(Rieekan, Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), CR90B(Engine Techs), Flotilla [2x A-wing]

Kill Rieekan early and from far away is the only workable solution I've ever seen to Rieekan CR90B's.  This one is nasty.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ardaedhel

[Democratus 1,698]

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I just got unlucky.

I was flying: ISD II (Moti, Gunnery Team), Interdictor Suppression (Scramblers), Flotilla (Comms Net) [Rhymer, Fette, Bossk, Zertik, 2x JumpMaster, Tempest, TIE Advanced]

The two shrimps went straight at my ISD at speed 4, rammed it (2 ramming damage) and 8+ damage each with double-arcing weapons fire in a single turn (even after using Targeting Scramblers). I know they are tanks, but they have real teeth. And with 1st player, the second round of fire saw me finished off with a double-arc from Foresight before it flew off into the ether.

I went after the corvettes with my bombers () but they failed to kill a single vette even at short range with the re-rolls and re-directs. Came close to killing one with my Interdictor! The flotilla with the Slicer tools caused much grief and took a round of fire from both the Interdictor and the front arc of the ISD to finally kill.

I'm going to keep trying. Imperials don't give up!  I may switch my list to 2x ISD + RhymerBall as the Interdictor feels like a poor ship for 90 points.

 

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

If you're worried about this list specifically, I'd go for XI7 on the ISD.  Bank a CF token as bad-roll insurance and then nav the rest of the game.

The big ships are all gonna have a tough time with the CC opening round:  they make their money on maximizing the efficiency of individual upgrades, but the tradeoff for that is that you want a lot of them (as a very broad rule) to make the ship itself effective.  With the build constraints of the opening round, large ships have it rough.

Also, do you have just an ISD, Interdictor, and Rhymerball?  I feel like you should have some more points in there...  BCC up?

[Democratus 1,698]

ISD II (Moti, Gunnery Team),

Interdictor Suppression (Targeting Scrambler),

Gozanti Flotilla (Comms Net)

[Rhymer, Boba Fett, Bossk, Zertik, 2x JumpMaster, Tempest, TIE Advanced]

That's 400 points on the nose.

 

I'm thinking that I will switch to this instead:

ISD II (Motti, Gunnery Team)

ISD II (Motti, Gunnery Team)

[Bossk, Tempest Squadron, Boba Fett, Zertik Strom, TIE Bomber, Major Rhymer, JumpMaster, TIE Fighter]

Maybe the first round or two will just be tough due to the large ships - and then will get better as we proceed? One can only hope!

 

 

[Green Knight 9,746]

Not being flippant here, but it seems the main problem is losing base defense assaults. That's always going to be a problem.

[Gottmituns205 1,601]

You need to look at this from another way: Captain Jonas + Gunnary Team + H9....get through those evades before Mothma can wave middle fingers at you. 

They will cluster...but throw in Jonas and you can start vaporizing those weak ships rapidly. 

[Democratus 1,698]

Those combos sound good. Guess we just have to eat our losses on turn 1 and look to try and get multiple upgrades in the following turns that will help us close the gap.

[Parkdaddy 626]

For dealing with the mothma list, engine teching gladiators. Two double taps and they're gone (ironically, the CR90B list is the perfect counter to Mothma)

[Parkdaddy 626]

For dealing with the mothma list, engine teching gladiators. Two double taps and they're gone (ironically, the CR90B list is the perfect counter to Mothma)

[Jamborinio 138]

Those are some extreme Rebel lists!  Makes me fairly glad of our somewhat limited resources allowing us only 2 of each ship.

Based on what you have, I think what I'd try is what Dras said above and try to hug the edges of the map to force those fast flying ships into some tricky manoeuvring. 

[Milienius 143]

The ramming thing is vicious and a cheap tactic of cowardly rebs. Best of luck

[Cusm 466]

Were you able to stop the Rebel scum? Did they just add more rams to the zombie train?

[Democratus 1,698]

The Mothma list was killed by inundating it with bombers - those defense tokens can't last forever. Last battle saw a total wipe of everything except Admonition and Jania's Light.

The Ramming list was just taken as a loss for each given turn and the opponent just worked to inflict maximum damage (sometimes hypering out if need be).

Our third fleet was our Screed/Demo/MSU attack fleet and it stomped around doing Show of Force and base assaults getting us money and killing Rebel bases.

 

So we contained the threat and forced an overwhelming economic victory that eventually saw us at 500 points per fleet with a massive resource bank - while our enemies had to field multiple scarred units.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Democratus

[Norell 1,198]

Rebel 1 can be countered by a DeMSU or a Pulsetap fleet. Raiders have better maneuverability than CR90s and they can hunt flotillas too. Pulsetap works similarly except that you use your ISD to OHKO Rebel ships after they were hit by Overload Pulse.

Rebel 2 is more tricky but I would suggest a Motti fleet of ISD/Interdictor/VSD. They have no AA so a Rhymerball may be effective too.

[Green Knight 9,746]

Rieekan's rammers is just such a lame archetype. Sure, you have to account for him in tournaments, but do you really want to waste your CC games on him. Sigh.

[Green Knight 9,746]

On 29.1.2017 at 4:14 AM, Drasnighta said:

Just keep Killing the Rieekan Rammers where ever possible.  They bleed resources constantly.  Every one  you kill is 20 points to Repair.  Just.  Keep.  Killing.  

Rammers. Die. But. Flee. Into. Hyperspace. Cost to repair = 0 

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Against Rieekan Rammers. Run away repairing heavily.

Let rogue squads deal with the corvettes. 

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

17 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Rammers. Die. But. Flee. Into. Hyperspace. Cost to repair = 0 

If they're not ramming until they can escape to hyperspace, they're wasting their two prime ramming turns and giving you those two turns to kill corvettes.

A different type of weakness is not no weakness.  I hate that this fleet is a thing as much as the next guy does, but it's not unstoppable.

[Milienius 143]

19 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Rammers. Die. But. Flee. Into. Hyperspace. Cost to repair = 0 

I can tell you right now I houserule at the beginning of every CC campaign that a zombie can not hyperspace and even if it does it is destroyed. Period. That is the cheesiest **** and I am not ok with it. Luckily we don't have anyone in the area who really likes ramming fleets. Its generally frowned upon. 

[Truthiness 5,698]

8 hours ago, Milienius said:

I can tell you right now I houserule at the beginning of every CC campaign that a zombie can not hyperspace and even if it does it is destroyed. Period. That is the cheesiest **** and I am not ok with it. Luckily we don't have anyone in the area who really likes ramming fleets. Its generally frowned upon. 

I'm of this opinion as well. A Rieekan ship is still destroyed. Destroyed ships become scarred. That's clearly how it's meant to be played, rule lawyering aside. Otherwise Rieekan is far too powerful in a CC environment.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

I'm of this opinion as well. A Rieekan ship is still destroyed. Destroyed ships become scarred. That's clearly how it's meant to be played, rule lawyering aside. Otherwise Rieekan is far too powerful in a CC environment.

Why? Sure you have to repair less, but if you use Rieekan in this way you are heamoraging campaign points or bases.