Undimensioned and Unseen: Dunwich Legacy Part 4!

[Covered in Weasels 587]

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/1/25/undimensioned-and-unseen/

The next part of the Dunwich Legacy was just announced!

The article hints at the existence of Abomination enemies impervious to ordinary weapons and spells, and shows off an Esoteric Formula which just may help defeat them.

Additionally, there are a pair of new Investigator cards spoiled in the article: a very potent but dangerous upgraded Rite of Seeking and the versatile new Rogue skill Quick Thinking.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Covered in Weasels

[Eruantalon 17]

My few cants about the preview:

http://shuffle-oos.blogspot.com/2017/01/undimensioned-and-unseen-preview.html

[Xenu's Paradox 40]

"Despite their many uses, neither Quick Thinking nor any of the other player cards from Undimensioned and Unseen will provide you the means to damage the Abominations you must destroy. No weapon nor science will suffice. So how do you prepare to defeat the impossible?"

I'm sure we'll manage to find the solution somehow...

[Notturno81 6]

Ha! Probably you're right:)) Mystery solved?

[Doma0997 72]

I doubt it. If strange solution was mandatory, it makes the campaign impossible to solo with some characters. 

[Vlad3theImpaler 514]

I don't think anyone is saying that strange solution is mandatory, only theorizing that it will help you gain access to a useful card.

[awp832 447]

My first reactions to Quick Thinking were:

1.  Can I use it during the mythos?  (I dont see why not-  so long as the conditions are met)
2.  Can I abuse that somehow?

I'm not sure there is anything game breaking....  yet.  It's interesting that you could theoretically get a clue and advance the Act card right in the middle of the mythos phase.  If your action involved a skill check you could throw in another Quick Thinking and get yet another action.  Can Skids activate his ability?  I mean, Skids ability is on his turn, but Quick Thinking says you are taking an action "as if it were your turn".   I'm thinking not, but... maybe?   Still, I wouldn't be surprised if this showed up as a problem card later.

[Network57 561]

I don't think you could advance the Act in the middle of the Mythos Phase. Technically you're still in the Drawing Encounter Card step, and there's no Fast Action window to trigger the advancement.

[xchan 66]

6 hours ago, Doma0997 said:

I doubt it. If strange solution was mandatory, it makes the campaign impossible to solo with some characters. 

(It's just an act, not the whole campaign), but that would be a problem because?

The game is designed as a cooperative 2 players game that can also support solo play as an auxiliary mode (sustained by the fact that there are cards that only work in multiplayer) . So some acts will not be ideal for solo with some investigators. You can't expect to be able to solo everything with everybody successfully (getting the good outcome). That's not how acts are being tested/designed either, or flexibility would be comprosized. They however, can add some getaways (Resign is an existing feature, but also they can come with some alternate endings that don't revolve around defeating the Abomination) for those investigators to bypass the act and keep the campaign going.

There's also a reason why all the Dunwich Investigators have access to the Strange Solution. If it wasn't important to the campaign, why bother with it?

[Doma0997 72]

6 minutes ago, xchan said:

(It's just an act, not the whole campaign), but that would be a problem because?

The game is designed as a cooperative 2 players game that can also support solo play as an auxiliary mode (sustained by the fact that there are cards that only work in multiplayer) . So some acts will not be ideal for solo with some investigators. You can't expect to be able to solo everything with everybody successfully (getting the good outcome). That's not how acts are being tested/designed either, or flexibility would be comprosized. They however, can add some getaways (Resign is an existing feature, but also they can come with some alternate endings that don't revolve around defeating the Abomination) for those investigators to bypass the act and keep the campaign going.

There's also a reason why all the Dunwich Investigators have access to the Strange Solution. If it wasn't important to the campaign, why bother with it?

But what about the characters that can't use it from the core set? That would seem pretty bad to say, oh hey, you have 0% chance of getting an ending because you can't take this card. Plus, you can use strange solution in every campaign you want. You can take it in the core set campaign, and every future one you wish, so if the result is tied to the Dunwich Legacy campaign, I feel it really diminishes the point. My current theory on it is that there will be a higher level card that says you can't use it unless you've discovered the solution. Or, if anything, I think the designers are going to mess with us really hard, and make it have a negative impact in the campaign. 

[unlimitedpower 52]

One thing to consider is that cards like Strange Solution will VERY likely only be relevant to the campaign in which they appear.  It is bad customer service to put out new content that requires non-core content to make sense.  New stuff can be used backwards but old stuff (non-core) usually isn't required moving forward.  Being an LCG - you can pick and choose which story or stories you want to play.  

That being said there is a lot of this game that breaks the LCG mold so we will see.  My prediction is that we will only see this card relevant (in a game changing kind of way) in the Dunwich Legacy campaign.  

Additionally the core investigators are up a creek if it is critical as others mentioned.  Not that being doomed isn't thematic, it just isn't as fun as having hope and then failing. 

[Molinext 18]

An easy fix it strange solution is mandatory for a win is to have a scenario rewaRd permanent that allows adding of 1, 0 xp card to deck. Especially if the additional card is not counted as part of card limit.

[BD Flory 695]

re: Quick Thinking it only allows you to take an action as if it were your turn. Any effect that isn't an action doesn't qualify, such as fast cards or free triggers.

These cards are legal to play per tgeir normal rules, of course. But you couln't, for example play a fast card that required it to be your turn during the Mythos phase, because it's not an action.

[xchan 66]

3 hours ago, Doma0997 said:

But what about the characters that can't use it from the core set? That would seem pretty bad to say, oh hey, you have 0% chance of getting an ending because you can't take this card.

But why is that a bad thing? Every investigator works differently, so why should you expect to be able to get every possible ending with them? As long as you can reach the best ending at the end of the campaign, the path each investigator took during the numerous acts can be different. It's not as if there was just one path to victory in this game.

So you know that in act 6 of the campaign, your investigator will need to settle for a different outcome that the one you could have aimed if he had the solution. Why's that any different than knowing that no investigator will be able to defeat all 6 cultists solo in scenario 2 of the core campaign? You just settle for a different ending and try your best on the next scenario (or are you telling me you have been able to defeat all 6 cultists with all investigators playing solo?). 

 

3 hours ago, Doma0997 said:

Or, if anything, I think the designers are going to mess with us really hard, and make it have a negative impact in the campaign. 

What would be the point in that? Screw you the first time around and then the card is a total trash forever and ever. I don't see them doing something like this. There's already too much wasted cards in this game, no need to add more just for "fun".

 

[awp832 447]

2 hours ago, BD Flory said:

re: Quick Thinking it only allows you to take an action as if it were your turn. Any effect that isn't an action doesn't qualify, such as fast cards or free triggers.

These cards are legal to play per tgeir normal rules, of course. But you couln't, for example play a fast card that required it to be your turn during the Mythos phase, because it's not an action.

So, if you choose to say, make an attack off of a QT, then no Hard Knocks?

[SuperMarino 138]

28 minutes ago, awp832 said:

So, if you choose to say, make an attack off of a QT, then no Hard Knocks?

No, that would be fine.  What you couldn't do is bring Switchblade in with Fast and then use the Fight on that.  You could, however, do Fight, and then on the Player Window in the Skill Test, bring Switchblade out.. it just wouldn't have any practical impact.  Using Hard Knocks, assuming it is already in play, would be fine, you just use it in the Player Window as part of the SKill Test.

[Gaffa 673]

5 hours ago, unlimitedpower said:

One thing to consider is that cards like Strange Solution will VERY likely only be relevant to the campaign in which they appear. 

FFG has already said that Strange Solution is not campaign-dependent.

 

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, xchan said:

But why is that a bad thing? Every investigator works differently, so why should you expect to be able to get every possible ending with them? As long as you can reach the best ending at the end of the campaign, the path each investigator took during the numerous acts can be different. It's not as if there was just one path to victory in this game.

So you know that in act 6 of the campaign, your investigator will need to settle for a different outcome that the one you could have aimed if he had the solution. Why's that any different than knowing that no investigator will be able to defeat all 6 cultists solo in scenario 2 of the core campaign? You just settle for a different ending and try your best on the next scenario (or are you telling me you have been able to defeat all 6 cultists with all investigators playing solo?). 

I think there's a difference between "This will be really challenging for some investigators" and "It's impossible to complete this unless you have one very specific card in your deck."

The latter is very bad game design.  In addition to basically shelving a lot of investigators, you now make this card required in every deck because you'll never know you need it until you need it.  Are you going to include Strange Solution in every deck you build, forevermore?  That's honestly dumb.

I'm perfectly fine with the Solution giving you some benefit at some point as you progress.  But requiring specific cards in order to pass anything is really, really bad game design.

 

[Gaffa 673]

Given that Strange Solution lets you "identify the solution", and that is a permanent mark in your Campaign Log, and given that FFG has says that "identifying the solution" will not be campaign dependent, obviously "identifying the solution" will unlock a certain set of cards, that you can include in any campaign, but only purchase if you have got that thing identified.

[Kentares 169]

Am I the only one whos loving that card? (the Strange Solution I mean)

[Doma0997 72]

1 minute ago, Kentares said:

Am I the only one whos loving that card? (the Strange Solution I mean)

No way, I love how it shows what they can do with this game, and risks and odd things they are willing to do. The concept is great, plus it keeps sparking debate about what it can do, which keeps people talking about the game. 

[Buhallin 4,563]

24 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

Given that Strange Solution lets you "identify the solution", and that is a permanent mark in your Campaign Log, and given that FFG has says that "identifying the solution" will not be campaign dependent, obviously "identifying the solution" will unlock a certain set of cards, that you can include in any campaign, but only purchase if you have got that thing identified.

Not necessarily.  It could have campaign-specific results that emerge at different points, and I can think of any number of possibilities.  Access to certain cards, certain cards starting in play, searching your deck at the beginning, starting with clues, extra clues in play, different Act or Agenda cards, more experience, removing weaknesses...

They're really trying to do something different here, and I'm thinking they're going to go big on the idea.  "Complete this card to unlock those other cards" as a flat ability doesn't sound all that interesting, especially since there's already a great deal of progression in the game.

[Kentares 169]

Ill laugh very hard if in one year from now that card still doesnt do anything... but thats exactly why I love it... keep people guessing...

[BD Flory 695]

3 hours ago, awp832 said:

So, if you choose to say, make an attack off of a QT, then no Hard Knocks?

As SuperMarino notes, your action still works normally. So if it opens free trigger window during a skill test, your'e then free to use free triggers during that window as normal (provided they don't say, "during your turn" or similar).

Same for fast effects. If it's a fast event that's appropriate -- say, you miss an attack on an enemy with Retaliate, you can play Dodge when it attacks to cancel the attack.

But QT lets you take an action (and only an action) as if its your turn. So anything that's not an action that must be played during your turn (fast assets, for example, or any fast or free trigger effects that specify "during your turn") can't be used.

Edited January 27, 2017 by BD Flory

[rsdockery 537]

2 hours ago, Gaffa said:

Given that Strange Solution lets you "identify the solution", and that is a permanent mark in your Campaign Log, and given that FFG has says that "identifying the solution" will not be campaign dependent, obviously "identifying the solution" will unlock a certain set of cards, that you can include in any campaign, but only purchase if you have got that thing identified.

My money is on a POD where it suddenly becomes relevant.