Cc: Unequiped upgrades and fleet totals.

[Kendraam 230]

7 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I'm gunna say they do count towards your fleet total. Sure, you can take it off, but you still have the points invested in it. Like Dras said, how can you prove you still have the upgrade if you don't record it anywhere? And what's to stop someone from doing gamey meta ****? 

"Oh, my opponent is running his dual MC80s with Ackbar. Better swap my Spinal for my XI7s on all my ships so I can choose to defend him.

Not only that but it's another way of balancing the game so one side doesn't run away with the game.

If you could not equip stuff and have it not count towards your limit a player who has got to 500 points could fairly easily tailor his list to specifically counter other lists.

For example: you could purchase all the Fleet Command upgrades and then decide which one you want to equip on a round by round basis.  You can still do this if you wanted to but ALL the upgrades would count towards your 500 point limit whether equipped or not and I'm not sure it'd be really worth it.

Another example: I have one  GR-75 with Comms Net; I'm thinking it may not be that useful now and am thinking of getting Repair Net for it instead.  I'm only at 495pts so I could do this and just leave Comms Net unequipped.  

If I really needed those extra 2 points I'd have to get the GR-75 killed whilst using Comms Net and then purchase another GR-75 with Repair Net.  Not ideal but a lot of the CC rules are for balancing purposes rather than 'making sense' or being 'realisitic'.

[FourDogsInaHorseSuit 1,486]

16 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I'm gunna say they do count towards your fleet total. Sure, you can take it off, but you still have the points invested in it. Like Dras said, how can you prove you still have the upgrade if you don't record it anywhere? And what's to stop someone from doing gamey meta ****? 

"Oh, my opponent is running his dual MC80s with Ackbar. Better swap my Spinal for my XI7s on all my ships so I can choose to defend him.

Because fleets are constructed and updated at the end of a round but hunting down opponents occurs at the beginning. So if akbar isn't the first Assault you can't garentee your swap would work. 

[FourDogsInaHorseSuit 1,486]

36 minutes ago, pasewi said:

Since the official roster page found in the box doesn't include anywhere mark unequipped upgrades, and since they are "set aside" per the rules, my interpretation is that they don't count toward fleet totals. A player in my campaign has reached 500 points and is threatening to hoard all the uniques from his team.

Sounds like you have a jerko somewhere. 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

1 hour ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Because fleets are constructed and updated at the end of a round but hunting down opponents occurs at the beginning. So if akbar isn't the first Assault you can't garentee your swap would work. 

If you are the defending team, you can easily line up your matches. And if all 6 players are "altering" their lists at the end of each round, you most certainly can run into match ups where your opponent just swapped some upgrades to generate a hard counter.

Plus, the rules do not say where your upgrades exist if you remove them. The rules don't say that they don't count towards the 500 points either. So I am inclined to believe that they do. 

But it is your campaign. You can play it however you want.

[FourDogsInaHorseSuit 1,486]

So each team gets one matchup they like, and one they have no control over?  That doesn't sound like something that needs balancing. 

My group decided that without any guidance that they don't count. 

[OldYogi 19]

On 24/01/2017 at 6:25 PM, Drasnighta said:

Sure does

 

PAGE 5, RRG, "DESTROYED SHIPS AND SQUADRONS"

Additionally, a ship or squadron is destroyed if a portion of its base is outside the play area.

A bit off topic and a fairly unlikely occurrence, but does this mean that if for example a player moves his ship in such a way that displaces his own squadrons, if it is close enough to the edge of the board his opponent could possibly push those squadrons partially off the map therefore destroying them? 

[Drasnighta 26,832]

1 minute ago, OldYogi said:

A bit off topic and a fairly unlikely occurrence, but does this mean that if for example a player moves his ship in such a way that displaces his own squadrons, if it is close enough to the edge of the board his opponent could possibly push those squadrons partially off the map therefore destroying them? 

No.

This is clarified in the FAQ

They cannot be placed off the table due to an overlap displacement.  if there is not enough room to place them touching the ship, then they must be placed touching a squadron that is touching the ship.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

32 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

No.

This is clarified in the FAQ

They cannot be placed off the table due to an overlap displacement.  if there is not enough room to place them touching the ship, then they must be placed touching a squadron that is touching the ship.

... to the despair of evil, crafty bastards everywhere.

Fortunately, the "stick it on top of the Firing Lanes tokens and engage it all game" gambit still works. >:}

[Drasnighta 26,832]

2 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

... to the despair of evil, crafty bastards everywhere.

Fortunately, the "stick it on top of the Firing Lanes tokens and engage it all game" gambit still works. >:}

I watched someone systematically park 3 Fire Lanes Tokens underneath an Enemy TIE Bomber that was tied up with, and only with, Ciena Ree...

Edited January 28, 2017 by Drasnighta

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

Just now, Drasnighta said:

I watched someone systematically park 3 Tokens underneath an Enemy TIE Bomber that was tied up with, and only with, Ciena Ree...

"Oh, my counter? No thanks, I don't think I'll take the shot. Thanks for the reminder, though!"

[thecactusman17 3,192]

On 1/23/2017 at 9:11 PM, Ardaedhel said:

I flew a squadron off the board in my last game because my opponent refused to kill it.

You can't legally do this though.  Squadron rules say you have to place it in the play area.

 

Don't get me wrong I think it's the smart play and if your group is cool with it you should take advantage.  Just, it's stupid we have to do things like that.

[Kanawolf 56]

Hopefully there will be a FAQ on this at some point.

 

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

6 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

You can't legally do this though.  Squadron rules say you have to place it in the play area.

Reference? Because the RRG doesn't say any such thing.

Squadron Movement

To move a squadron, its owner proceeds through the  
following steps:
1.     Determine Course: Place the range ruler flat on the  
table with the distance side faceup. The center of the  
distance 1 end of the ruler must be in contact with the  
squadron’s base.
2.     Move Squadron: Pick up the squadron and position it  
anywhere along the center of the ruler up to the line  
that marks the end of the distance band matching the  
squadron’s speed value. The squadron’s base cannot be  
placed beyond that line. Then remove the range ruler  
and place the squadron in the final position.
•     A squadron cannot be placed with any part of its base  
overlapping another squadron or ship.
•     A squadron can move through ships, squadrons, and  
obstacles without issue. Only its starting and final  
positions matter.
•     If the range ruler cannot be placed in the play area due  
to other ships and squadrons being in the way, hold  
the range ruler above the play area and estimate the  
squadron’s final position.
•     When a squadron moves, it can choose to remain in its  
current position and is still considered to have moved.

[zerogeesus 0]

Here are my thoughts on why I think upgraded cards not equipped don't count:

1)  If you can buy upgrades, but they don't count, I get the impression that this could work out as a sort of "mix and match" style.  For example, let's say I buy a Repair Crews, but instead I want a Comm Net.  I un-equip Repair crews, and they float out there; if I want them next turn, I can swap them out during the appropriate Phase.  I do it before assaults are declared, so I can try to gamble that I get a matchup where my choice pays off.  Obviously this doesn't count for Title or Unique cards.

2) If I replace an upgrade 4 times (extreme, I know), that means 3 upgrades are not doing anything, but count towards my total.  Why would you ever swap something out if you are going to lose points for it?  Sometimes it may be useful, yes, but for any advantage, I don't see how "upgrading" from Reinforced Blast Doors to ECMs is cost effective; unless of course, that's the trade off of being able to swap equipped upgrades?

3) Let's take this to an extreme.  I have two souped up MC80 Home Ones.  I take off all their upgrades, and buy a CR90.  It would still mean I can't get upgrades that put me past the 500 points, so I'd have to lose a ship to get access to those upgrades.  I don't see this as being terribly unbalancing, because of what extra benefits upgrades can bring to the table.
 

I agree on a lot of the points above regarding whether the un-equipped upgrades could count toward the total, I'm just offering my perspective.

[thecactusman17 3,192]

18 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Reference? Because the RRG doesn't say any such thing.

 

 

Odd.  I could swear I've read that squadrons must be placed in the play area.  Perhaps it's an FAQ or in regards to another situation.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

7 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Odd.  I could swear I've read that squadrons must be placed in the play area.  Perhaps it's an FAQ or in regards to another situation.

It is in the FAQ, and it is In regards to another Situation:

 

Specifically, placing Squadrons after an overlap by a ship.

In that instance, they must be placed on the table - they cannot be placed off the table to kill them...