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Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Eventual Spoilers)

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23 hours ago, Jetpack said:

Saw the movie a few days ago, and absolutely loved it.   Would put it at #3 on my list behind Empire and Rogue One.

Luke was perfect in it.    Loved Leia finally getting a force moment (it was something like 25 years later, why so hard to believe she learned something in that time?).

Wasn't a fan of the bombers initially, but went around to the argument that the Resistance used what they had.     Still iffy on it, but oh well.

Really hoping we dont' get a Kylo Ren/Rey toxic relationship.  Ugh.   What I do want is Chewie to get some revenge for Han.  I'd pay double for a Chewie beat down scene.   

Luke and R2 was perfect.   

Regards to the RT user score, passing these along if not already listed.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12/20/the-curious-case-of-the-last-jedi-and-its-rotten-tomatoes-audience-score

Note this part from an actual poll of movie viewers:

"comScore surveys almost a thousand audience members in 20 markets immediately after they view the film, including The Last Jedi. So, while Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic showed audience scores in the 50s or lower, comScore showed a score almost at 90 which was in line with both The Force Awakensand Rogue One. comScore was kind enough to allow me to provide you with some of their exit polling data on these three films:

star_wars_shapiro_1200_992_s.png

Lots of good data to unpack here, but most importantly, this data shows the audience liked The Last Jedi a great deal. Rating a movie as either “excellent” or “very good” tends to be the key metric in most Hollywood evaluation of content, both in testing and in exit polls. Anything over a score of 80 in the “top two boxes” is concerned a great score, and The Last Jedi has a top two box score of 89. So, if 89% really liked the film, the amount of people who would score the film “poor” or the equivalent of a zero or one score on Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic would be a very small, single digit percentage."

 

http://mashable.com/2017/12/20/last-jedi-poll.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Anyone can certainly dislike the movie.    Totally fair.  Saying it split the fanbase though.....well, that's a reach.    Not even going to touch the "real fan" bit.

How negative were the people who didn't like it, though?

If 90 percent liked it and 10 percent despise it, that is a lot different from 90 percent liking it and 10 percent being underwhelmed. And it could indeed fit the description of splitting the fandom.

Edited by DaverWattra

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Of course I agree that it's entirely likely that political motivations explain some of the backlash. In today's polarized environment, that would be no surprise at all. We've seen it from the right with attacks on great movies like Twelve Years A Slave, and also from the left with attacks on films like American Sniper and I Love You Daddy. It's a rough time to be a filmmaker who has something to say that might offend someone.

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18 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

How negative were the people who didn't like it, though?

If 90 percent liked it and 10 percent despise it, that is a lot different from 90 percent liking it and 10 percent being underwhelmed. And it could indeed fit the description of splitting the fandom.

That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works. 

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On 24/12/2017 at 2:51 PM, themensch said:

I could swear he misses with his first shot, but it is entirely possible I am misremembering, and that just Mary-Sues him up that much more!  

 

The lesson here is that the Force is no joke, people.  

 

Edit:  You are in fact correct.  Luke only has one shot.  

 

You're thinking of either the original script, or the novelisation. In both of those, Luke makes two runs.

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The Star Wars Underworld’s poll of The Last Jedi closed today, conforming what was basically common knowledge by this point. 31,600 Star Wars fans voted with 78% liking the movie and 22% disliking it. 

So apparently it is not as controversial as some (including Squeeky McTwitchy in the above video) would have you believe. 

Solidly in the “like” camp, even on social media where, let’s be honest, the good of humanity isn’t always apparent 

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On my end The Last Jedi gets a passing grade with 4 of 6 stars.  It's entertaining enough for me, and I find that it at least respects what's gone before, without outright contradicting it.  That being said, the movie does have some issues for me.  It is still MILES better than VII though, which I absolutely LOATHED WITH PASSION, and frankly never want to see or hear about again.

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On 24/12/2017 at 10:51 PM, Seguleh said:

For example why do we build deathstars if we can just build a hyperspace propulsion in a large asteroide and smack it into a planet...

Rocks are Not free Citizen!

Alright, so it's not...exactly the same, but the point still stands. Ultimately, it would be WAY too much effort and WAY too much hassle to bother doing when you can just bring in a star destroyer and orbital bombard the planet to sludge. 

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8 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

That your metric makes no sense. 

A small minority despising a movie is not a reason to speak of a divide. 

This may just be a semantic dispute.  What counts as "a divide"?

I think when people speak of TLJ causing a divide, they mean that TLJ is more divisive than other Star Wars movies.  They aren't saying that most fans dislike it, or that it's 50/50.  They're saying that a sizable minority of fans really hate it, whereas the other non-prequel Star Wars movies are all considered at least mediocre/OK by pretty much all fans.

10% is a sizable minority in my book, if most of that 10% hates the movie instead of just finding it meh.

8 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

The Star Wars Underworld’s poll of The Last Jedi closed today, conforming what was basically common knowledge by this point. 31,600 Star Wars fans voted with 78% liking the movie and 22% disliking it. 

 

It's hard to know what to make of this number without knowing whether that 78% is lower or higher than the percentage of fans who liked Force Awakens or Rogue One.  My sense is that most Star Wars fans like Star Wars movies, so it's no surprise that a majority of them liked TLJ.  The interesting question is whether TLJ is hated by more fans than TFA or Rogue One--my personal sense from anecdotal evidence is that it has more haters than those movies, but as you say, polls are a better way to learn the answer to that question.  But to accomplish that the polls need to ask the right questions.  Not just "Do you like TLJ?" but "How much do you like TLJ?" and "How much did you like the other recent Star Wars movies?"

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On 10/9/2017 at 10:57 PM, Desslok said:

What, not a big Porg fan? They don't offend me, but we'll have to see them in action and how much screen time they get before I pass final judgement.

So, now that I saw the movie, and I am only on page 10/53 of this massive thread, I got to ask: what is your verdict on Porgs?  :)

Amazon Porg Plushie ; yeah, I know I need to buy my wife one for her birthday next year.

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I should say, by the way, that I am not myself a TLJ hater.  It's definitely a good movie, and I especially loved everything that happened with Luke, Kylo and Rey.  I would like the see the fan criticism taken seriously, though, because I think there are some things the movie got really wrong, namely the overall visual and musical atmosphere of the series.  Johnson is a great director, a much better director than JJ Abrams, but my sense is that he doesn't really "get" what makes Star Wars Star Wars in the same way that Abrams and Gareth Evans get it.  However high an opinion I have of TLJ as a movie, I don't want to see another whole trilogy of Star Wars movies that don't quite capture the feel of the Star Wars universe.  So I hope that Johnson and Disney listen to the legitimate criticisms, while ignoring the stupid ones and the politically-motivated ones.

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11 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

I would like the see the fan criticism taken seriously

This is a TERRIBLE idea. That way lies madness. You'll never be able to please "The Fans", and if you let the inmates run the asylum like that, you'll wind up with 80's Doctor Who. Make the movie(s) you want to make and F the fandom and what they think.

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11 minutes ago, Desslok said:

This is a TERRIBLE idea. That way lies madness. You'll never be able to please "The Fans", and if you let the inmates run the asylum like that, you'll wind up with 80's Doctor Who. Make the movie(s) you want to make and F the fandom and what they think.

On the contrary, after the prequel trilogy, Star Wars fans were mad and rightly so. Disney set out to address the fan complaints in the new movies and have largely succeeded, leading to better movies.

I am not saying listen to every last fan criticism, I'm saying listen to the reasonable ones.

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11 minutes ago, Desslok said:

This is a TERRIBLE idea. That way lies madness. You'll never be able to please "The Fans", and if you let the inmates run the asylum like that, you'll wind up with 80's Doctor Who. Make the movie(s) you want to make and F the fandom and what they think.

It seems like a lot of folks decrying TLJ won't admit that Lucasfilm approved all this.  I think LFL has come to realize that "haters gonna hate" and that no movie they make will bring back the joy 6-year-old me had seeing A New Hope in the theater for the first time, and trying is futile.  

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