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Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Eventual Spoilers)

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9 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Nice movie that, I am sure, will grow with multiple viewings.

A solid 7.5 out of 10.

I did miss that Star Wars feeling that TFA had in spades, but I think it is a much better movie than Rogue One (which I still think is an inferior movie, but a great SW experience.)

You sold me on the movie. At least to watch it once on the big screen. Rogue One turned me off so hard that I really questioned for the first time if I go and watch the movie. I don't expect much now, which is fine, so I really hope that I am not getting disappointed with that 7.5 out of 10 of yours. 

BTW, what is TFA for you? ;-)

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Becayse I know that you are all waiting on what I think of Kung Fu Monks with Laser Swords Part Eight. It only confirmed that JJ Abrams is a hack and that Episode Seven was a steaming pile of garbage. 

Every problem that I had with Episode 7 was swept away with one stroke of a mighty hand. Weak characters that I didn't give a crap about, a story that leaned way too heavy on the Nostalgia Button, a terrible soundtrack - none of this was present. The story was funny when it needed to be, it was dramatic when it needed to be. There was nostalgia - but it was in service of the story and not just for fanwank "Look at this thing you remember!" Oh, and I wasn't expecting Star Wars: Roshomon. That was a nice twist.

Luke was goddamned badassed, Kylo was menacing and had teeth to him, the supporting cast all had stuff to do, the art direction was gorgeous. This thing hit all the marks.

As far as the rankings go, I'll re-evaulate once the honeymoon is over, but as it stands at this moment, I'll go:

1) Empire
2) Rogue One
3) Last Jedi
4) New Hope
5) Sith
6) RotJ
7) Clones
8) Phantom Menace
9) Being devoured by fire ants
10) Force Awakens
 

More discussion later. I must decompress and sleep!

EDIT - Oh, one last thing:

Porgs are GODDAMNED AWESOME!!! That is all.

 

Edited by Desslok

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BAH! Fine - one last for the night

20 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

5. Most criticism I read online is that Finn and Rose's storyline is unnecessary while it actually sets up one of the most important messages of the film.

I loved that the theme of stories and storytelling was so important to the - um, well - story. Luke moving from just a man to an Beowulf ledgend of the ages, the young slave telling stories of great daring do to the others, inspiring the others to look to the horizon. Seriously powerful stuff that was handled well. 

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11 hours ago, Endersai said:

I saw it. 6/10, and enjoyed TFA more. I need a second viewing to process my thoughts, but I could really tell Rian Johnson liked the prequels and that is absolutely not a positive.

 

Things I liked

Luke - Thought his 'I F-ed up and the **** with it' was decent.

Rose - Mostly because they showed us her motivation so she's more believable than Poe.

Space Donkeys - F the X-Wings, the resistance should stock up on space donkeys that can run through buildings, climb vertical surfaces, and keep going

Benicio Del Toro - An honest to goodness Edge character

Kylo - Barely, but because he's less whiney and  more ambitious/devious

Leia - Not because of her super vacuum Force survival powers, but just because she got some more lines and Carrie Fisher seemed more comfortable in the role.

Things I didn't like

Poe - He's an action figure toy and that's about it

Snoke - A disappointing dummass

Hux - Vader crossed people off for making honest mistakes, he needed to end.

Phasma - Was dumb in TFA and was dumb in TLJ imo.

Rear Admiral what's her face - Not because of the notion of her as rear admiral or any of her lines or what she did, who in the F on that ignorant production decided to dress her in an evening gown?!?!?  She looked like the hostess at a wine tasting party in Manhattan, not a rear admiral in the Resistance.

Finn - Unfortunately also, because I really liked him in TFA, but his good lines were few and far between.

The plodding space chase scene - Resistance ship in the the nothingness flying sub-light with the First Order lobbing endless useless shots at them.  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  Asteroids?  Nebula? Space Mine fields??!? Something, hello?!?! I feel like the screen writer should read some posts on the forum about adding terrain to your space combat encounters to make them more interesting.

And finally, the plot - Sorry, but the average GM could come up with a better session plot on a sticky note riding the bus to the game store for game nite.  The whole thing was silly.  We have to fly to another star system away from our fleet moving at sub-light to get a hacker that we have to bring back and infiltrate aboard the First Order flag ship so that it won't track us after we go to light speed.  We need to hurry before our fleet runs out of gas, but for now it's ok since it's too fast for the 1st Order at sub-light speed.  Good thing apparently the immense First Order that is seizing control of the galaxy can't spare a few ships to pop in front of the fleeing Resistance ships, although I'm not sure why if they've got the majority of the systems they want seized seems like they could spare one or two ships to get the only people left apparently fighting them.

 

 

 

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I am in a bit of a rush so I can't talk much; but I had to say I quite enjoyed the movie in that; much of the time I couldn't see what was coming next. The source of the Kylo Ren Tragedy was indeed very fascinating. My only complaint is that we are still none the wiser as to who snoke was; but like the Emperor, I guess it wasn't important! XD

Just Luke's stand against the entire imperial ground force was incredible. It's exactly the kind of action that tales would be spoken of for many years; and ultimately would have struck terror into the first order hearts. 

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What saddened me most: The Star Wars films have finally stopped telling an epic saga. This was just a protracted TV show episode, on par with Clone Wars and Rebels. 

What riled me most: Second rate elementary school Three Stooges' comedy on Auto-Fire. I understand the virtue and even necessity of a comic relief, now and then, but every other minute, honestly? Relieving oneself is necessary and healthy; when it is getting pathologically frequent, it's called diarrhoea and needs to be treated.   

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I watched it wednesday night.

I really enjoyed it, though the first third of the movie was really weak and had me worried, especially the overly "funny" beginning.

There were also some sequences that really weren't necessary to make it into a two and a half hour movie.

 

The most awesome stuff:

 

*EDIT* GOD DAMNIT I MISSED A SPOILER THING AND NOW EVERYTHING IS IN THE TAG AND I WHY DOES IT SHOW ME THE BOXES INSTEAD OF THE TAG THINGYS WHEN I TRY TO EDIT IT WHY IS THIS FORUM TECH SO BAD

 

The Resistance cruiser lightspeed crashing into the First Order fleet. Breathtaking.

Rey and Ren vs the Praetorian Guard. These two teaming up was SO awesome. My personal prediction went a bit farther though. I hoped they would team up permanently and do their own force thing because Snoke and Luke are old and smelly.

I really, really couldn't be happier that they offed Snoke like they did. The very concept for his character (another mysterious puppet master) had me really bothered since TFA. And now that he's just gone I couldn't care less about his origin.

I love Kylo Ren. An ambiguous "bad guy" is just so refreshing. He was less corrupted and more pushed away from the light side by the perceived betrayal of everyone around him.

Luke not being a one dimensional good guy was also cool in my opinion. Judging by most of my friends that certainly is a point of contention.

The not as awesome stuff:

 

I really don't know how I feel about Leia pulling herself through space. On one hand, it was cool to see her use the force at all, wich was a missed oppertunity in the character as a whole with the whole "my sister has it too" from RTJ. On the other hand that's the kinda fanfiction that we literally played out at the table when we were about 14 years old, so it's just weird to see it on the big screen.

Also on Leia. They had a really good oppertunity to put her into the Resistance Cruiser to crash into the FO fleet, but I guess they didn't want or have the time to reshoot it with a CG Leia. Now her character just vanishes or dies in the textcrawl of Episode 9 I guess, unless they CG her into EP9. (please don't)

The very opening scene takes all credibilty out of General Hux. I thought he had potential in TFA. But after that..  good thing he is literally being flung around now by Kylo.

I was really disappointed that the casino and the arms dealers were so brushed over that they might as well have left that entire sequence out.

The neutral stuff:

 

Yoda. His scene was pretty long so it doesn't really qualify as a cameo anymore. Also I guess force ghosts have quite a bit of influence over the material world, or at least the potential, it is Yoda after all. I still have mixed feelings about his appearance, but I was pretty giddy about it in the moment.

Luke projecting his presence across the galaxy. It's a pretty gnarly skill, though something that again blew the frame of what is possible with the force. But I guess its really hard to do for extended periods of time if it makes you vanish into the force afterwards.

Poe and Finn didn't really do anything worthwhile, and their bromance was again cut too short. Finn attempt at sacrificing himself to destroy the cannon made me think: "thank god, a movie that isn't afraid to kill of a main character" but of course that was interupted by Rose.

Wich brings me to her. She had good development and motivation, but I can't help but feel like she was there to fill a diversity quota and will be downgraded to generic love interest for Finn going forward.

I also really hope the race track would be a Podrace track, but alas.

 

The most frustrating thing? All of my friends absolutely hate it. The movie supposedly ruined Star Wars and it literally destroyed their childhood. To the point that I'm not sure at the moment if we will even keep our Game going...

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

The year is 2017 and nuance is dead. 

Edited by RicoD

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I loved this movie.  Lots of nods and little twists and unexpected things.  Only really had 1 part that I didn't like, but won't spoil it for everyone, just that it had to do with Princess Leia.  

My favorite thing they did though, is to let Luke Skywalker be Mark Hamill.  Sarcastic and snarky.  I loved it!

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1 hour ago, Grimmerling said:

The Star Wars films have finally stopped telling an epic saga.

I totally disagree. The entire story was all about the deconstruction of an epic saga. Pardon me while I shamlessly steal from Tvtropes:

We are introduced to Luke Skywalker, moisture farmer, restless young man, seemingly stuck on the planet Tatooine with little to no hope for the adventure he craves. We truly begin to see this when, after having bought two droids from Jawas, Luke goes out of the hovel he lives in with his aunt and uncle, and watches the twin sunset. In that moment, we see it: the yearning for adventure, the bravery, and the heart that will carry Luke's story into history. Over the next X years, Luke becomes a mythical figure, part-Buddha, part-Christ, part-Olympian. The stories of his exploits become legendary and the very name 'Skywalker' becomes synonymous with the word hero. But he's not happy. Nor is he a Messiah.

For every victory, there has been tragedy; for every life saved, there have been countless deaths. The heroic exploits and his near-mythological status has left Luke isolated from everyone in the universe, but such is the price of apotheosis. And then, fearing great catastrophe, Luke makes a grave mistake which costs him his followers, his academy, and his nephew. Disillusioned with the universe that he failed to make a better place, Luke instead turns to Ach-To, the ancient home of the very organisation which ruined Luke's life. he turns bitter and apathetic, seemingly waiting to die.

Then comes Rey, a young woman very much like Luke in her own way. And although he tries, Luke just can't sway her over with his cynicism. For every time Luke tries to convince her that the time of the Jedi has come to an end, Rey fires back with the kind of heartfelt logic that Luke himself used when turning Anakin Skywalker back to the light side of the force. Yes, the Jedi were flawed, but they did a lot of good, too. Yes, Luke did make mistakes, but no one is beyond redemption. Finally, Rey herself goes to confront the enemy, and Luke goes to destroy the last of the knowledge of the Jedi, until Yoda seemingly does it for him and they talk as master and apprentice, one last time. Luke decides to the fray. There, on the field of battle, without hesitation, Luke admits his mistakes and provides enough distraction for his friends to escape. Kylo Ren, newly crowned Supreme Leader of the First Order, goes to strike his uncle down, but he can't: Luke isn't there.

But this illusion and distraction has cost Luke. The myth has been pulled away to reveal the man who was once there. Not a god, not a wise and all-powerful Jedi Master, but the same heartfelt and brave man who left his home all those years ago. A man just as mortal as all of us. And so, in the last moments of his life, Luke Skywalker, safe in the knowledge that his friends and family are safe, looks up to the twin suns of Ach-To, just as he did on Tatooine all those years ago, and becomes one with the force. And although the war isn't over, we know that he has made the universe a better place.

1 hour ago, RicoD said:

The Resistance cruiser lightspeed crashing into the First Order fleet. Breathtaking.

That was a stunning moment. I loved how the sound dropped out for a moment during that.

 

1 hour ago, RicoD said:

I really, really couldn't be happier that they offed Snoke like they did. The very concept for his character (another mysterious puppet master) had me really bothered since TFA. And now that he's just gone I couldn't care less about his origin.

I loved how Snoke was a total bait and switch, subverting the audience's expectations. I also loved how Rey's parentage just wasn't a thing - it's not who you come from, it's who you are that counts.

 

1 hour ago, RicoD said:

I still have mixed feelings about his appearance, but I was pretty giddy about it in the moment.

I loved that he was a puppet that moved and looked exactly like he did in Empire. I loved that in the space of three minutes, he was still the loki/coyote trickster that talked S to his student. 

 

1 hour ago, RicoD said:

The very opening scene takes all credibilty out of General Hux.

Eh, I was never impressed with Ginger Tarkin from the get-go. So throwing his character under the bus for the (second) best opening of a Star Wars movie ever was worth it. Also I love that while Kylo now has teeth and menace and has moved beyond whiny spoiled brat, that he still can't command respect/fear/loyalty from the First Order. That he still very much lives in the shadow of Vader.

 

1 hour ago, RicoD said:

I also really hope the race track would be a Podrace track, but alas.

You too, huh?

 

1 hour ago, RicoD said:

All of my friends absolutely hate it.

You need better friends.

Edited by Desslok

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42 minutes ago, Edgookin said:

I loved this movie.  Lots of nods and little twists and unexpected things.  Only really had 1 part that I didn't like, but won't spoil it for everyone, just that it had to do with Princess Leia.  

My favorite thing they did though, is to let Luke Skywalker be Mark Hamill.  Sarcastic and snarky.  I loved it!

I am very sure I have put it into a single song for you. XD

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9 hours ago, Desslok said:

 

GODDAMNED AWESOME

 


I was going to say that about Luke's crowning moment of glory. 

My big concern walking into this movie last night was that Luke would not be given his due. I was five when I saw ANH in the theater and I grew up on Star Wars. Luke was the first fictional hero I connected to. We were introduced to Star Wars through Luke and learned about the Jedi with Luke. At the end of ROTJ he embodies everything we know about the Jedi Order. Luke is a legend and deserved to "finish" his story, while leaving the rest to Rey, as a legend. He did. 

Two words: shoulder flick.

My made up Yoda quote: "Swagger a Jedi must have to be called a Master, hm?"

I felt the backstory of his "failure," his embitterment, his deepened perspective of The Force, and his finally shrugging it off to be a hero again was a micro Hero's Journey in of itself.  And, for me, any half-way decent Luke, let alone Awesome Luke (TM), puts me on Cloud-9.  I also feel Luke's explanation of the Force to Rey was handled right. It adds nuance to canon without completely blowing it up.

That said, Rey has really grown on me and she deserves to be carrying this trilogy into IX. In fact, DR is young enough, they could probably do an anthology film with her after that. She's really turning into an old-fashioned Hero in her own right. I agree her "team up" scene with Kylo was incredible.

I felt Po's character growth arc from trigger-happy flyboy to leader was well handled. With Leia's major role no longer possible in IX he is going to have to carry a lot of water. His meeting with Rey at the end and the way the two looked at one another was amazing. This is not to say I want to see anything more than implication and nuance between the two of them. Rey's trajectory would lose something with a romantic subplot.

Save that for shipper fanfic, novels, or an anthology film!

Carrie did a great job with "older and wiser" Leia and she had a great part to play, but I feel like the fire and edge that defined and illuminated the character was gone rather than blunted. Still, she carried her water, had an enjoyable wryness, and had a few key moments we could cheer for.

Hux was well characterized and Snoke's descriptor of "cur" was perfect for him. His reaction in the throne room when Kylo pushes himself up? Perfect.

I expected Pokemon to be really annoying but they showed just the right amount of restraint. They interplayed with Chewie, and the action beats, perfectly.

Benicio Del Torro put on a great performance and gave us a really gray character. I'm wondering whether we see him again, and in what capacity. 

An Observation:

I know people don't think much of Phasma, but let's be frank, Boba Fett was also oversold and went down like a Punk A-- B----! He's an expanded universe legend more than he was an on-screen legend. That said, I was left feeling nothing about Phasma one way or another.

Some criticisms:

I felt Rey and Poe had strong character arcs,, but Finn's role while very important plot-wise, didn't develop him very much. Rose was a better character in this movie.

Snoke was a missed opportunity. It was a long movie and an exposition dump to explain him would have been "off," but who the **** is he? Evil dues ex machina.

I wasn't super-happy with Yoda's facial rendering and felt that his characterization was uneven. Odd considering how little screen time her got, but I felt it just didn't quite hit the right note.

What was with Vice Admiral what's-her-face's evening gown? She's not Mon-Mothma or Leia or Padme. She's a fricken' space admiral! I liked her role, but... what?

My rating: 8/10.

  1. A New Hope
  2. Empire Strikes Back
  3. The Last Jedi
  4. Return of the Jedi
  5. Rogue One
  6. Revenge of the Sith
  7. The Force Awakens
  8. Attack of the Clones
  9. The Phantom Menace
Edited by Vondy

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32 minutes ago, Desslok said:

I loved that he was a puppet that moved and looked exactly like he did in Empire. I loved that in the space of three minutes, he was still the loki/coyote trickster that talked S to his student. 

I didn't hate Yoda in this movie and felt his scene was essential.

But...! I also felt they tried to cram to many "faces of Yoda" into too short a scene and that, as a result, he was just a touch off-key.

I think they should have evened it out just a little.

 

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It also occurs to me that Rose gave us the key to Star Wars morality.

Our heroes don't fight to destroy what they hate.

They fight to preserve what they love. 

That works far better for Jedi Knights than the weird laser sword space pacifism so often postulated.

Rose may just be the Rosetta Stone for the "Jedi Code."

Edited by Vondy

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I didn't like the movie. I rather watch ep II or III (never I). Is not all the movie, there are genuine good scenes.

So, in the slowest chase in the history of the galaxy, why they didn't use more Tie fighters?

Why crushing ships at light speed is not a thing in every battle? use a few droids in some cargo ships and destroy the other fleet.

Why Rey is now the last Jedi? she didn't receive any training except some word of wisdom from Luke.

So Snoke... Do I need to buy a novel to see where this guy came from? Why the movie can't tell us?

 

Overall, disappointing movie with some golden nuggets.  

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So as far as I currently understand it...

 

Snoke blew up Hosnian Prime so his Loyalist Senators not present when the world went bye bye assumed control effectively meaning the First Order has WON!

Because the Resistance was dependant on ships supplied by "allies" in the New Republic they were tagged by Snoke's Agents so could track them wherever they went.

Once Hosnian Prime was blown up when the Resistance took SKB out the First Order sent a fleet after them since the New Republic are essentially First Order now.

Finn is sent to contact someone who can locate and hack the First Order database deleting the records that allow them to track the Resistance ships since with the destruction of Hosnian Prime they won't have backups to rely upon once they're deleted.

I'd throw in Yoda deleted the records regarding Luke's hiding place but the recent Darth Vader comic showed the Librarian did that!

They meet DJ he helps them get aboard the Supremacy actually deleted the records but they're caught shortly after.

Holdo thinking they've failed makes a suicidal attack on the Supremacy damaging it enough so they can escape.

Meanwhile Luke desperately trying to give time for his new academy to move offworld keeping Rey busy so she doesn't notice for although he trusts Chewie his previous academy was destroyed by an unprovoked attack by New Republic Forces goaded by Snoke using the NR fear of Darth Vader to his advantage.

Ben carries a tracking beacon and ends up assumed the only survivor becoming Kylo Ren and blamed for the destruction so the NR can avoid the blame for being duped.

The Falcon however cannot be tracked, but after Rey leaves when Snoke uses images of Finn being tortured to bring her out of hiding Luke lets her leave before joining the others to complete their evacuation.

Snoke is a former Inquisitor like the Grand Inquisitor a former Jedi Temple Guard presenting Rey to Snoke Kylo uses the distraction to catch Snoke offguard neatly ripping him from his throne and life support he and Rey barely manage to beat him with Kylo killing Snoke and than claiming the throne revealing how badly he tricked Rey!

Finn helps Rey escape we learn Luke has arrived driving off the FO forces before talking to Leia and heading off to join the others.

He leaves Rey the Journals mentioning when she's ready she'll find him and we end the movie with them jumping out of the Crait system with FO forces starting to react recovering from Kylo's ascension.

No that is not what happens, that's what I picture when I read about it maybe you can explain why people are raving about it because I certainly don't get it!

Edited by copperbell
Spoiler bit isn't working properly and it won't let me correct it!

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23 minutes ago, Rithuan said:

Why Rey is now the last Jedi? she didn't receive any training except some word of wisdom from Luke.

Because even Luke couldn't do it right; he tried to hide his mistakes, not use them as teaching tools. Rey is the new hope for a better Jedi Order. Start fresh.

23 minutes ago, Rithuan said:

So Snoke... Do I need to buy a novel to see where this guy came from? Why the movie can't tell us?

He's just a supporting character who only matters insofar as his actions tell us more about the main characters. Where he came from is irrelevant to the movies.

 

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From someone who definitely isn't a fan of any non-RPG SW stuff in the last 20 years...

My crew got me drunk and forced me to see it.  And it was...

...

...drum roll!....

**spoilers**

It was...

 

... okay.

 

I guess. 

Critters were cute, a few funny lines.  I learned that rich people are evil (totally called that one, guyz!) and that Leia is so cool she can fly in space.    

This being Disney, it all felt terribly predictable and a retread of everything we've seen before, but if you're okay with zero risks, this film will make the money it's supposed to make.

Oh, and all the villains suck. Darth Snoopy, like whatever the Emperor was supposed to be, isn't even a character, he's a cardboard cutout that provides the motivation for a real character.

Daisy Ridley is still pretty.  

Oscar Isaacs is still handsome.

Laura Dern hasn't aged that well and purple isn't her colour. :(

Mark Hamill looks smexier now than he did in 1977.  Better actor too.

Actually liked Benicio Del Toro's character.  Felt pretty MarcyVerse.  

When the ATAT's all lined up, everyone whispered the same thing; that a single Move roll could knock them over like dominos.

Nice touch about Rey's parents, but I'd still bet my funny-shaped dice that the 'big reveal' of the next movie is that she's actually a Kardashian anyway and that Stimpy lied to her.  This series just won't let its First Family go.  

 

Like the half-bag of toffee popcorn they made me eat, it tasted fine but wasn't too filling and I can't remember too much about it afterwards.

 

And finally... Sensitives can now speak telepathically or in dreams to one another. something that's actually been part of the Marcy Cinematic Universe since Day One.

And now I want one of those seal-puffins.

@Desslok, Porg avatar when?

 

PS.  Actual lump in my throat at the 'Our Princess' bit in the credits...

Edited by Maelora

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30 minutes ago, Maelora said:

Sensitives can now speak telepathically or in dreams to one another. something that's actually been part of the Marcy Cinematic Universe since Day One.

Remember that one movie, what was it called? The Emperor Swipes Back? Telepathic conversations have been part of Star Wars for decades.

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Apparently

 

that was Snoke's special ability you know like Influence Mind was Kenobi's, Telekinesis was Skywalker's and Palpatine was Electrokinesis

Edited by copperbell

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Just wanted to add thank you for the Superman theme tune, really enjoyed listening to it!

For some reason it won't let me add stuff to previous messages once I spoiler them apparently unless I add an extra line before saving it doesn't allow that to be changed after!

Edited by copperbell

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