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Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Eventual Spoilers)

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Guess that puts to rest the "mace is alive theory" and the fate of Kanan and Ezra.

 

That was pretty much put to rest in the original trilogy. Don't you think that Yoda would felt the existence of Mace, arguably the second most powerful Jedi Master on the Council, if he survived the fall? And that Yoda wouldn't have said "there is another" (referring to Leia, later confirmed by Vader during his battle with Luke in the throne room of the DS II) if Kanan, Ezra, and/or Ahsoka were still alive (and not fallen to the dark side)? Very little of the canon established by the original trilogy has been altered by subsequent movies, TV episodes, and new-canon books. Certainly nothing so significant as to change the "Luke is the last Jedi" concept that Lucas established in the original trilogy.

 

Obviously, the new canon did away with the EU's Leia training in the Force (and probably the survival of anyone trained by Luke post-Endor, likely dead at the hands of the First Order). So we see Rey (the Force Awakening in her) becoming the new apprentice to the Last Jedi, Luke.

Edited by ShadoWarrior

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Well, except that Ahsoka gets around that by being thrown out and being an ex-Jedi, Kanan by never having become a Jedi as the council fell whilst a Padawan, and Ezra can't be made a Jedi with no Council.

 

Perhaps a little tenous of couse!

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So in 7, there where no sith, in 8 there is the last jedi aka Luke soooo in Episode 9 Sith are called H´tis and Jedis will be Id´ej, everything is new but the same, everything new is old again.

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Yoda never struck me as the sort of fellow to play semantics games. And if a completely untrained Leia qualifies as "another", so certainly would those who did have some training (Ahsoka, ex-Jedi Padawan; Kanan, ex-Jedi Knight; and Ezra, trained by multiple Force users).

 

While the Jedi Council during the waning days of the Old Republic might make a distinction between "Jedi" and "light side Force users", I seriously doubt the much-wiser Yoda would do so (or care) twenty years later — particularly when there is no more Jedi Order to say who is or is not a Jedi.

 

BTW, Chirrut Îmwe is arguably a Jedi, even though he himself would never make such a claim. He's certainly a light side Force user with rather well-developed Sense.

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Just because the term "Sith" is never used in SW ep7 doesn't mean that the DS Force users aren't Sith. At this point we simply do not know how many of the Sith traditions those DS FUs follow. Besides still having a fondness for red-bladed lightsabers. We'll have to see what, if anything, Luke has to say on the subject, and how much is revealed about Snoke (could they have come up with a sillier name for a BBEG?).

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The sith tradition was wiped out; but it doesn't mean it could not undergo a revival. 

 

Just this movie title confirms to me that Luke will die this movie and it will be the end of the Jedi order as well as the sith. episode 9 will be taking out the rest of the trash e.g. the legecy of skywalker, Kylo Ren.

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Not sure the title impacts anything about Mace, Kanan, Ahsoka and Ezra. If you're using Jedi as defined by the clone wars era Jedi Order, then it can be argued that only those survivors of Order 66 that continued to uphold the order's ideals are Jedi. So Kanan, Obi-wan, Yoda, Ezra as far as we know continued on in the Jedi Order's ideology and really, Kanan and Ezra only loosely. Ahsoka can't be called a Jedi at all, as she continually points out. Mace is kinda the Schrodinger Force-user, he's both a jedi and not until we open the box, assuming he survived. The circumstances could have pushed him to the dark-side, thus he ceases to be a Jedi even though he manages to stay alive through Ep. VIII.

 

We have to assume, since the Saga movies are about the Skywalker family, that Jedi is defined by Luke alone, since Leia's jedi-ness was removed. So, the last Jedi are Luke and his students or student as it seems to be.

 

 
 

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The villains in TFA were laughable. The actor playing Hux is far too young to be a senior general, and totally lacks the gravitas required for the leader of an enormous, evil army. Ren is pathetic and petulant. Vader didn't just have the fear of those around him, he also had their respect. Ren? Just fear of his tantrums. Phasma might as well have been named "Phantasm", given the shallowness of her performance. And then there's Snoke (rhymes with joke).

 

As for the Sith tradition being dead, not necessarily. It depends on whether the new canon only goes by the old canon's Rule of Two tradition, or the allows for Sith that did not abide by the Rule of Two (which existed in the EU). Snoke could be Sith, just not trained by Plagueis or Sidious. Plus we already have in the new canon, thanks (FWIW) to SW Rebels, Force users who are neither Jedi or Sith.

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Yoda never struck me as the sort of fellow to play semantics games. And if a completely untrained Leia qualifies as "another", so certainly would those who did have some training (Ahsoka, ex-Jedi Padawan; Kanan, ex-Jedi Knight; and Ezra, trained by multiple Force users).

 

While the Jedi Council during the waning days of the Old Republic might make a distinction between "Jedi" and "light side Force users", I seriously doubt the much-wiser Yoda would do so (or care) twenty years later — particularly when there is no more Jedi Order to say who is or is not a Jedi.

 

BTW, Chirrut Îmwe is arguably a Jedi, even though he himself would never make such a claim. He's certainly a light side Force user with rather well-developed Sense.

 

To Yoda, Leia qualifies as "another" because she is of the Skywalker lineage, a whole different caliber of force-user than Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka. There is no doubt that Yoda felt other force-users and even Order 66 survivors. If Mace survived, there is no doubt that Yoda knows it but it is inconsequential.  And I think Yoda would be pretty strict in his views on who is a Jedi and who isn't. For 800 years he has trained Jedi, his own counsel he will keep. That doesn't mean he won't support anyone with the light side flowing through him but when it comes to defeating Vader and the Emperor, he know's Luke and Leia is where it's at.

 

Of course, maybe Yoda wasn't concerned about defeating Palpatine and Vader and all. And the "Another" is actually referring to Luke's future relationships.  I'm just spitballing, haha. 

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The villains in TFA were laughable. The actor playing Hux is far too young to be a senior general, and totally lacks the gravitas required for the leader of an enormous, evil army. Ren is pathetic and petulant. Vader didn't just have the fear of those around him, he also had their respect. Ren? Just fear of his tantrums. Phasma might as well have been named "Phantasm", given the shallowness of her performance. And then there's Snoke (rhymes with joke).

 

As for the Sith tradition being dead, not necessarily. It depends on whether the new canon only goes by the old canon's Rule of Two tradition, or the allows for Sith that did not abide by the Rule of Two (which existed in the EU). Snoke could be Sith, just not trained by Plagueis or Sidious. Plus we already have in the new canon, thanks (FWIW) to SW Rebels, Force users who are neither Jedi or Sith.

 

I like this assessment. I hope Ren and Snoke, and Phasma become the villians we expect them to be. And yeah, there is absolutely nothing that says the Sith are gone. Hell, even the rule of two wasn't all that enforced by the Sith in the clone wars and into the New Order. And yeah, now that the Jedi Order of old is gone and the Sith have waned in power (or so it appears) there is a wide variety of Force-user of all shades. And remember, there have always been force-users that were neither Jedi or Sith. It's was the power of those groups that simply minimized their impact. The Jedi actively sought out force-sensitives and indoctrinated into the Values of the Order, and the Sith just killed them. With out those two extremely influences the different shades of force-users as no choice but increase in numbers.

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The fact that Yoda accepted Anakin into the Order, despite 800 years of his training Jedi using strict rules on who can and who cannot be trained argues that Yoda wasn't so hidebound as to be incapable of accepting new ideas. The only real argument that can be made is that only someone with Skywalker blood could get close enough to the Emperor to have a chance. Not at all a matter of training or strength, but simply the connection to Vader. None of the Force users from Rebels would ever be allowed anywhere within 100 kilometers of the Emperor. And none were strong enough to defeat him. That took a surprise 'attack' by Vader, who wouldn't have done it for any reason less than that of saving the life of one of his own children.

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I believe Rey is a clone of Luke or Anaikin Skywalker anyway, so even if Luke died off, it would still be the skywalker story. Heck, even if Luke died off and she wasn't related, then it would become about Luke's lasting legacy and the galaxy taking up a new guardian and how despite failing to bring back the order, brought back a REY of hope back into the galaxy.

 

Or we can continue bickering back and fourth on the defination of canon and midachlorians. I can get behind that too.

Edited by Lordbiscuit

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I believe Rey is a clone of Luke or Anaikin Skywalker anyway, so even if Luke died off, it would still be the skywalker story. Heck, even if Luke died off and she wasn't related, then it would become about Luke's lasting legacy and the galaxy taking up a new guardian and how despite failing to bring back the order, brought back a REY of hope back into the galaxy.

 

Or we can continue bickering back and fourth on the defination of canon and midachlorians. I can get behind that too.

 

Please no clones.

I think that Rey is Luke's daughter, who was kidnapped by Kylo Ren and left on Jakku. Besides, Disney has a horrid habit of sneaking easter eggs into EVERYTHING, and I have it on good authority that Kylo calls Rey 'cousin' in Infinity 3.0.

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As far as Yoda referring to Leai when he said "No, there is another", he wasn't talking about her being another Jedi. Rather, he was responding to Obi Wan referring to Luke as being their only hope. Specifically, their only hope of defeating Palpatine. Leia was the other hope they had should Luke fail or, worse, fall to the Dark Side. 

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Yoda never struck me as the sort of fellow to play semantics games.

 

Well, aside from that little white lie about Vader to Luke. . . .

 

You need to review the original trilogy. That was Obi-Wan, not Yoda. As best I recall, Yoda never said anything untrue to Luke. Unless you count lies of omission.

Edited by ShadoWarrior

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Yoda never struck me as the sort of fellow to play semantics games.

 

Well, aside from that little white lie about Vader to Luke. . . .

 

You need to review the original trilogy. That was Obi-Wan, not Yoda. As best I recall, Yoda never said anything untrue to Luke. Unless you count lies of omission.

 

 

They were both up to their little Jedi eyeballs in lies. Yoda was just as deep in the conspiracy to keep the truth away from Luke as Kenobi was.

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I believe Rey is a clone of Luke or Anaikin Skywalker anyway, so even if Luke died off, it would still be the skywalker story. Heck, even if Luke died off and she wasn't related, then it would become about Luke's lasting legacy and the galaxy taking up a new guardian and how despite failing to bring back the order, brought back a REY of hope back into the galaxy.

 

Or we can continue bickering back and fourth on the defination of canon and midachlorians. I can get behind that too.

 

Please no clones.

I think that Rey is Luke's daughter, who was kidnapped by Kylo Ren and left on Jakku. Besides, Disney has a horrid habit of sneaking easter eggs into EVERYTHING, and I have it on good authority that Kylo calls Rey 'cousin' in Infinity 3.0.

 

Which is true, from a certain point of view. She would be a cousin even if she was a clone.

 

I'm only putting it out there; unfortunately I think it will go exactly as you say which is unfortunate because I want to be surprised.

Edited by Lordbiscuit

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