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Sodiumbrella

A visual guide to the usefulness of a 2nd core set.

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Today, my willpower broke and I bought the second core set. However, when I got home and opened the box I felt a bit silly. It just didn't seem like I was getting very much for my money. Now, obviously, you can't really judge the value of the second set solely on the amount of physical stuff that you get. There are all sorts of considerations such as deck building options, ease of use, how many players you can play, and so on. 

 

However, I'm going to do it anyway, because I thought it might be nice for someone on the fence, like I was, to see what is in the box.

 

So, I made this simple visual guide to how much useful stuff is in the box (based mostly on my gut feeling, in some cases).

 

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Second view:

 

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Edited by Sodiumbrella

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As a note, the extra encounter cards let you build all 3 of the scenarios at the same time, making set up waaaay easier. I bought 4 core sets, and Dunwich Legacy uses some of the core set encounter sets, the current standing is that you need 3 core sets to keep every scenario pre-built at the moment. 

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As a note, the extra encounter cards let you build all 3 of the scenarios at the same time, making set up waaaay easier. I bought 4 core sets, and Dunwich Legacy uses some of the core set encounter sets, the current standing is that you need 3 core sets to keep every scenario pre-built at the moment.

Is this really a point. Are you suggesting buying extra core and Dunwich Legacy with each new mythos pack?

It is really not worth mentioning as it is relevant in case of base game only and stops being relevant with expansions.

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Well my current buying track is 4 cores and 2 of each expansion. I'm keeping a full play set for two people. It's still nice for those with two play sets to be able to build all three scenarios, and heck, storage is so easy when you can keep all the scenarios pre built. I have a box that holds each scenario, two binders for deck building each holding a play set of cards so both players have one and can build from, and a twist container tower with all the tokens separated. Set up of the scenario takes less than a minute, so I bring a bag, we deck build if we're just starting, and go. It's not for everyone, but it's so convenient for now.

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just finally got around to opening my second core set last night and i completely agree with the assessment of the OP.  One might be able to argue for a second copy of Dunwich Legacy if you're rolling with four players but its probably excessive.  More so when considering the Miskatonic Museum is going to have almost as many player cards as Dunwich Legacy and I don't see people buying the clam shells packs in pairs.

my group is going to give it a go with four players based on two core and one Dunwich.  Four heroes with four different main class colors and a couple of those heroes using the 'unused' color as a minor class.

My hope is this plays a little faster than LotR LCG with four players.  It should as the turns in and of themselves are less complex.

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10 hours ago, player1329291 said:

Is this really a point. Are you suggesting buying extra core and Dunwich Legacy with each new mythos pack?

It is really not worth mentioning as it is relevant in case of base game only and stops being relevant with expansions.

Yes it is a valid point. With x2 cores you can have all 3core scenarios built simultaneously. 

Also the spare player and encounter cards from the 2nd core can act as proxy backs for the great fan made scenarios that are out there. 

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If people want to spend the money to have all of the 3 core scenarios built simultaneously, then that's cool for them, ya know.

I have played a bunch of the LotR scenarios, and for me, its easy enough to build the scenarios based on the required cards whenever you decide to play a scenario, as long as you have your card types organized and separated by dividers with the names / symbols on them (props to BGG users Ryno80 and violin man).  It would take about 15 seconds to put together a scenario that way, and about 45 seconds to sort and put it away.  For me, that's entirely manageable.

If this were my only game, and I played it all the time, I would most likely buy the 4 core sets and go nutz.

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I don't mind FFG trying to make some money but this sales model is just wasteful. So much money and time spent printing cards, tokens and boxes that are going in the garbage.

Edited by Meretrix

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13 hours ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

Yes it is a valid point. With x2 cores you can have all 3core scenarios built simultaneously. 

Also the spare player and encounter cards from the 2nd core can act as proxy backs for the great fan made scenarios that are out there.

This is not wrong - as I said, you can't judge the value on the physical amount of stuff alone - but the problem is, once you start factoring in Dunwich Legacy and further expansions, you are going to need those encounter cards again and you can't have all the scenarios prebuilt. As Doma0997 said, you need 3 sets right now, and I am sure that is only going to grow. 

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12 hours ago, Meretrix said:

I don't mind FFG trying to make some money but this sales model is just wasteful. So much money and time spent printing cards, tokens and boxes that are going in the garbage.

This is actually a very valid point. I believe it would have been a lot more interesting for both them as for us, if a Core Set just came with the content of 1.5 Core Sets and they upped the price of a Core Set to the price of 1.5 Core Sets. Looking at the image above, there's more than 50% of the Core Set that will mostly gather dust somewhere. That's 1x box, 1x Rules Reference, 1x How to Play Guide, 1x Campaign Guide, 5x Investigator Cards, x amount of tokens and 50% of cards they didn't have to spend energy on to manufacture. A shame, really.

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25 minutes ago, Veruca said:

This is actually a very valid point. I believe it would have been a lot more interesting for both them as for us, if a Core Set just came with the content of 1.5 Core Sets and they upped the price of a Core Set to the price of 1.5 Core Sets. Looking at the image above, there's more than 50% of the Core Set that will mostly gather dust somewhere. That's 1x box, 1x Rules Reference, 1x How to Play Guide, 1x Campaign Guide, 5x Investigator Cards, x amount of tokens and 50% of cards they didn't have to spend energy on to manufacture. A shame, really.

Because it's a lot easier to get people to buy into a game at $40 than it is at $60. 

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13 hours ago, Meretrix said:

I don't mind FFG trying to make some money but this sales model is just wasteful. So much money and time spent printing cards, tokens and boxes that are going in the garbage.

This is the reason that I won't buy a second core set. However, I assume I am in the minority - if FFG stood to make money by releasing a "core set player cards only" deck then I can't help but feel that such a product would exist.

I suppose the exception would be if they did it for AH:LCG but not their other LCGs then they would undoubtedly upset players of the other games... and if they did it for all their LCGs then they would upset players who have already bought multiple core sets. So they may feel as though it isn't worth the hassle even if it would potentially increase their profits.

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26 minutes ago, Grimwalker said:

Because it's a lot easier to get people to buy into a game at $40 than it is at $60. 

That's true. Unfortunately, it's the disease of our society. A lot of things revolve around money, and everything else has to take a backseat (in this case: we'll sell more copies if we're a bit wasteful). Not trying to sound holier than thou, though, because I am guilty of this as well. It's just an observation I'm making.

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On 23.1.2017 at 5:39 PM, Doma0997 said:

As a note, the extra encounter cards let you build all 3 of the scenarios at the same time, making set up waaaay easier. I bought 4 core sets, and Dunwich Legacy uses some of the core set encounter sets, the current standing is that you need 3 core sets to keep every scenario pre-built at the moment. 

Did they ever officially mention if 3 will stay "enough" or it might go up to 4? I just got Dunwich and realized that I need to sleeve all the encounters for 1 scenario the same so I can switch out the rats and that other set without resleeving anything. There go my 150 or so sleeves that I don't have enough of to sleeve it all the same ...

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No idea. Heck, they will probably use the core set encounters in multiple deluxe expansions since they are generic enough to be reused. eventually we'll have to break everything apart I imagine.

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17 minutes ago, Doma0997 said:

No idea. Heck, they will probably use the core set encounters in multiple deluxe expansions since they are generic enough to be reused. eventually we'll have to break everything apart I imagine.

Or print everything out and use Star Wars Destiny commons and sleeves ;D

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Why not sell additional sets of 'core player cards' in a clam shell?  they already print the cards; they already use clam shells.

Or, buy two core sets and use the extraneous scenario cards from set 2 as backers for proxy-ing your 3rd and 4th set of player cards.  You'd have to sleeve them all...but we're already doing that, right?

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1 hour ago, HK 47 said:

Why not sell additional sets of 'core player cards' in a clam shell?  they already print the cards; they already use clam shells.

One more thread to say it in: there is no reason on earth for them to publish a set that contains only redundant cards that are already available in the Core Set. From a production, distributor, and retailer perspective it's dead product that only serves to depress sales of the flagship item of the game line. And the cost savings to the consumer would be modest at best. 

 

Quote

Unfortunately, it's the disease of our society. A lot of things revolve around money, and everything else has to take a backseat (in this case: we'll sell more copies if we're a bit wasteful). 

FFG is a for-profit company and if they don't maximize the best solution to problems of supply and demand vis a vis Price Points, then we don't have a game to play at all. Bemoaning that the company makes money is a perverse complaint.

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4 hours ago, Grimwalker said:

FFG is a for-profit company and if they don't maximize the best solution to problems of supply and demand vis a vis Price Points, then we don't have a game to play at all. Bemoaning that the company makes money is a perverse complaint.

 

Oh, I'm not moaning that they want to make money. All I'm saying is that money seems to be the highest focus for a lot of people, that they're willing to do wasteful things just to make it. I mean, what's the point of putting money and energy in making cards that, as Meretrix said, are going to end up in the trash because they're not going to be used. I'm still going to buy a second Core Set, but I think it wouldn't hurt if FFG would rethink their policy on not including a full playset in a single Core, or at least make it so buying multiple Core Sets doesn't result in wasted cards.

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The production and distribution costs probably make this a losing battle, but what about a player card booster option.  1 Core = $40 USD.  Player card booster is $20-$25 USD and contains just the player cards from the core.  I wish we knew more about how the cost break down is.  Like does the booklet and cardboard tokens make up less than 10% of the cost or is it more like 30%.  Surely printing less cards (player only) costs less than player and encounter cards.  They could market it as a multi-player expansion option.   

 

PS - I literally just saw the other topic with basically this idea.  Came back to post that I wasn't trying to take away from that conversation or hi-jack this one just tossing out my thoughts :)

Edited by unlimitedpower

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