Milienius 143 Posted January 22, 2017 I am living by a new mantra. "Let JJ take the wheel." As such I am tinkering with older style list to see if they are viable like this fancy smancy fleet. Thoughts? 1-2 VSD Punch Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 400/400 Commander: Moff Jerjerrod Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush Navigation Objective: Superior Positions Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Warlord ( 8 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Sensor Team ( 5 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 121 total ship cost Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)- Intel Officer ( 7 points) - Veteran Gunners ( 5 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) - Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points) = 95 total ship cost Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)- Suppressor ( 4 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 29 total ship cost [ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 48 total ship cost 1 Lamda-class Shuttle ( 15 points) 2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points) 1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points) 1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points) 3 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 33 points) Card view link 1 herod1204 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silver Crane 199 Posted January 22, 2017 I have a list I just ran today with a Vic I, a Vic II. 2 Gozantis and then squads. I'm not sure I dig the way you outfitted your Vic 2, your lack of Intel for your squads or your objective choices. You've dropped 27 Points on a lot of dice manipulation. 2 of which drop dice from your pool. Why not just drop down to H9's and leading shots or H9's and Veteran Gunners? Fleet Ambush seems like a bad objective for this list and I think Solar Corona is better than Superior positions as it doesn't allow for point farming, and offers some defensive benefits. I'd also try to fit in Dengar or a generic Jumpmaster for intel. 1 Milienius reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted January 23, 2017 Having looked at your suggestions I decided to make a couple small changes. I dropped the leading shots, dropped two TIE Interceptors and added a TIE Phantom and a jumpmaster. I agree I overloaded the ISD with dice manipulation but I don't think you are seeing the beauty of the combo on the VSD II. Yes, Sensor Teams forces me to drop a die but QTC adds another die in with an accuracy since sensor teams would set a red to accuracy. Then Warlord flips one of those over to a double hit side. Essentially I guarantee a 2 hit plus an accuracy every time I fire from the front. Expensive but fun. I disagree with Solar corona. Superior positions is an awesome advantage whose special rule may or may not be put into effect. I am only getting one card into the objectives and honestly I want them to take Advanced Gunnery which is why I am offering what I see as worse options. Why do you think Fleet Ambush isn't a good fit? It places half their fleet much closer to mine which is important since I am only speed 2 imo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Democratus 1,698 Posted January 23, 2017 The problem with Fleet Ambush is if the enemy has a massive squadron presence. You've given them the ability to strike with these squadrons on Turn 1 - and with first activation! 1 Silver Crane reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silver Crane 199 Posted January 23, 2017 The problem with Fleet Ambush is if the enemy has a massive squadron presence. You've given them the ability to strike with these squadrons on Turn 1 - and with first activation! Yeah and with things like AFFM you could take some serious damage You could also have Demolisher dash in turn 1 and jack you up. I see what you are doing with your upgrades on the Vic II, I'm just not sure the investment is worth the points you are paying and he opportunity cost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobokai 1,518 Posted January 23, 2017 Might be worth it to go softer on the VSD II and bring your I to a II also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted January 23, 2017 Well before rolling back into this thread I was looking at it and decided I liked Planetary Ion cannon better so no Hyperspace Assault for me. I guess I should not that I am not trying to take this fleet to a tournament. I am just trying to build something to test and see if I have fun with it. I know this fleet isn't gonna get a lotta love with the VSDs but I think JJ is going to help them out. Might be worth it to go softer on the VSD II and bring your I to a II also. Why do you think so? Where would you make cuts since it is maxed out at 400? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobokai 1,518 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Well you have 216 points in 2 VSDs. That's 108 per ship if you do 2 VSD IIs. Have you had success getting milage from the black dice on a VSD I? If so, ignore me. But that range band has always been easy for me to scoot. You know what builds work for you, but this is a cheap build that still hits well. I'm sure you could do it differently to where it works better for you...for example if blues aren't rolling much go another route... If you use your squadrons aggressively and let ships fend for themselves, well you'll need more ship based anti squad stuff. Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) - Ion Cannon Batteries ( 5 points) = 102 total ship cost Edited January 23, 2017 by Lobokai Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silver Crane 199 Posted January 23, 2017 I think Vics are a competitive choice with JJ. Heck I've got a list I've been tweaking with two Vics right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Updated list. Repaired Fleet Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 400/400 Commander: Moff Jerjerrod Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon Navigation Objective: Superior Positions Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Warlord ( 8 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Sensor Team ( 5 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points) = 117 total ship cost Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)- Intel Officer ( 7 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) - Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points) = 94 total ship cost Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)- Suppressor ( 4 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 29 total ship cost [ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 48 total ship cost 1 Lamda-class Shuttle ( 15 points) 1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points) 1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points) 2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points) 1 JumpMaster 5000 ( 12 points) 1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points) 1 TIE Interceptor Squadron ( 11 points) Card view link Fleet created with Armada Warlords Well you have 216 points in 2 VSDs. That's 108 per ship if you do 2 VSD IIs. Have you had success getting milage from the black dice on a VSD I? If so, ignore me. But that range band has always been easy for me to scoot.You know what builds work for you, but this is a cheap build that still hits well. I'm sure you could do it differently to where it works better for you...for example if blues aren't rolling much go another route... If you use your squadrons aggressively and let ships fend for themselves, well you'll need more ship based anti squad stuff.Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)- Ion Cannon Batteries ( 5 points)= 102 total ship cost I don't think Ion Cannons are worth it. Thats just me though. I am really not sure if I will be able to close with the VSD1 but I want to try. JJ throws some wicked curves into these turns after all. If I was gonna drop the VSD I I would just go for a decked out Demolisher for 6 points cheaper and further upgrade my squadrons and flotillas. Also yeah my fighter ball is dedicated anti fighter and very very mean. I know alot of people will screech at me to take Mauler but I love Ciena and she has become a calling card of mine. Edited January 23, 2017 by Milienius Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 23, 2017 Yesssss... more victorys! I absolutely SWEAR by JJ and double victorys at the moment. I run Ciena, Valen, Dengar, two Arquitens with Dual turbolaser turrets, and then a VSD2 with gunnery teams and H9's, and my flagship - a VSD 2, with Tua,ECM, H9's and gunnery teams. Flexible, maneuverable, and with some devastating frontal firepower, I am toying with dropping Dengar to a Jumpmaster and putting leading shots on both VSD's for safety, as I had a lot of whiffed roles yesterday. People tend to be a lot more cautious around VSD1 front arcs, so I find they mostly don't get a look in, and they aren't fast enough to realistically get there either. Both of yours REALLY need gunnery teams, as whilst they do spit a lot of firepower, with only two ships realistically as combat ships, you need to maximise that. The way they work best, is when you get their front arcs to cross each other over two targets, it's absolutely brutal. I'd swap advanced gunnery for station assault (Vic's love to knowwhere the enemy have to head for, even with JJ), and planetary ion canon for fire lanes. I managed to get 17 fire lanes tokens yesterday, victory's really love them given the size of their arcs. 2 Lobokai and Milienius reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted January 23, 2017 Thanks for the heads up! If I feel like putting together a more competitive VSD list (Who am I kidding I will lol) I will come back and look over your suggestions. If nothing else though I can hope they will be so put off by Superior Positions and planetary Ion cannon that they go with Advanced Gunnery XD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobokai 1,518 Posted January 24, 2017 @Herod. I too have been doing 2 VSDs 2 Arquitens... Toying with 1 VSD, 3 Arquitens, but keep coming back to the 2x2. I'll give your loadouts a try. Different from mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 24, 2017 @Herod. I too have been doing 2 VSDs 2 Arquitens... Toying with 1 VSD, 3 Arquitens, but keep coming back to the 2x2. I'll give your loadouts a try. Different from mine. It's relatively competitive I feel, or at least, there IS something there that needs honing. I came sixth out of 15 at a Q1 tournie with it, I am just struggling with getting the best out of the Arquitens, but that may just be my inexperience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sygnetix 140 Posted January 24, 2017 A bit off topic but.... I use the VSD to set up an ISD for uncontested damage. I know there is an argument to be made against a 2 activation fleet at 400 points but thus far, this not only fits my playstyle but has found success as well.Two Activation Carrier Fighter/Bomber Wing Author: Sygnetix Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 400/400 Commander: Admiral Screed - He works on blue crits, too. Assault Objective: Opening Salvo - Give me black dice or give me red. Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon - Map control/Creation of fire lanes. Navigation Objective: Minefields - Map control/Creation of fire lanes. [ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - Admiral Screed ( 26 points) - Avenger ( 5 points) - Flight Commander ( 3 points) - Fire-Control Team ( 2 points) - Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - Ion Cannon Batteries ( 5 points) = 176 total ship cost Role: Follow up attack to VSD proc. Screed to secure required crits. Carrier for fighter squadrons. Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points) - Corrupter ( 5 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) - Overload Pulse ( 8 points) = 115 total ship cost Role: Primary target engagement. Carrier for bomber squadrons. 3 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 36 points) 1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points) 1 JumpMaster 5000 ( 12 points) Role: Engage fighter screen or bomber wing. 1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points) 3 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 27 points) Role: Primary target clean up, following target preliminary engagement. Situational: In the event I'm facing an opponent that has split fighters/bombers, it's a big ball and I use it to engage bombers first (if able) and let the ships do their work. I like to go second but if forced into going first, I cruise at speed one (unless it's an Imperial speed manipulation build - learned that the hard way). At turn 2, VSD goes up to speed 2 and begins procing targets for the Avenger. In an ideal scenario, the VSD can hit 2 targets so the Avenger can follow up and hit the same 2. They're both tanky with RBD. The worse it's faired thus far is a dead VSD and a mostly cleared fighter screen. I've since made adjustments to include bombers. Due to slow speed, it's a bit complicated to keep the flanks secured. Worse case is the bomber ball provides flank support and I try to get to (or funnel my opponent into) one map edge to protect one flank from exposure. Not a dual VSD list but perhaps a useful approach. Just my two cents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Sygnetix said: A bit off topic but.... I use the VSD to set up an ISD for uncontested damage. I know there is an argument to be made against a 2 activation fleet at 400 points but thus far, this not only fits my playstyle but has found success as well.Two Activation Carrier Fighter/Bomber Wing Author: Sygnetix Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 400/400 Commander: Admiral Screed - He works on blue crits, too. Assault Objective: Opening Salvo - Give me black dice or give me red. Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon - Map control/Creation of fire lanes. Navigation Objective: Minefields - Map control/Creation of fire lanes. [ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - Admiral Screed ( 26 points) - Avenger ( 5 points) - Flight Commander ( 3 points) - Fire-Control Team ( 2 points) - Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - Ion Cannon Batteries ( 5 points) = 176 total ship cost Role: Follow up attack to VSD proc. Screed to secure required crits. Carrier for fighter squadrons. Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points) - Corrupter ( 5 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) - Overload Pulse ( 8 points) = 115 total ship cost Role: Primary target engagement. Carrier for bomber squadrons. 3 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 36 points) 1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points) 1 JumpMaster 5000 ( 12 points) Role: Engage fighter screen or bomber wing. 1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points) 3 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 27 points) Role: Primary target clean up, following target preliminary engagement. Situational: In the event I'm facing an opponent that has split fighters/bombers, it's a big ball and I use it to engage bombers first (if able) and let the ships do their work. I like to go second but if forced into going first, I cruise at speed one (unless it's an Imperial speed manipulation build - learned that the hard way). At turn 2, VSD goes up to speed 2 and begins procing targets for the Avenger. In an ideal scenario, the VSD can hit 2 targets so the Avenger can follow up and hit the same 2. They're both tanky with RBD. The worse it's faired thus far is a dead VSD and a mostly cleared fighter screen. I've since made adjustments to include bombers. Due to slow speed, it's a bit complicated to keep the flanks secured. Worse case is the bomber ball provides flank support and I try to get to (or funnel my opponent into) one map edge to protect one flank from exposure. Not a dual VSD list but perhaps a useful approach. Just my two cents. *whistles* you are taking an awful risk there Vader. How successful has this been against what kind of lists? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sygnetix 140 Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Milienius said: *whistles* you are taking an awful risk there Vader. How successful has this been against what kind of lists? It's going to sound like a side step but I do not retain specifics very well. It's beaten an dictor speed break with konstatine build, an ackbar mc80, and a rebel token shifter. To be fair, it's changed between every game and I only get to play against a player once week. The rest are family and friends thanks to Vassal. I never meant to suggest it as a tournament build, I just offered it as an entertaining build. Beyond that, my opponents are limited. The closest shops in Florida that get 6-10+ people a week are all over 2 hours away :-/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted January 25, 2017 I get that. I usually do fun builds as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sygnetix 140 Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Milienius said: I get that. I usually do fun builds as well. Fun is sometimes the point, right? I feel like I'm hijacking this thread to apologies to the OP. I've been kicking this one around as well: Commander: Admiral Screed Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon Navigation Objective: Minefields [ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - Admiral Screed ( 26 points) - Fire-Control Team ( 2 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points) = 168 total ship cost Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - Fire-Control Team ( 2 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points) = 142 total ship cost 1 Dengar ( 20 points) 1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points) 1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points) 1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points) 1 TIE Interceptor Squadron ( 11 points) 1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sygnetix 140 Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Milienius said: I get that. I usually do fun builds as well. Fun is sometimes the point, right? I feel like I'm hijacking this thread to apologies to the OP. I've been kicking this one around as well: Commander: Admiral Screed Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon Navigation Objective: Minefields [ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - Admiral Screed ( 26 points) - Fire-Control Team ( 2 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points) = 168 total ship cost Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - Fire-Control Team ( 2 points) - Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points) = 142 total ship cost 1 Dengar ( 20 points) 1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points) 1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points) 1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points) 1 TIE Interceptor Squadron ( 11 points) 1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points) 1 Green Knight reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted January 25, 2017 We should just rename the thread to Make VSDs Great Again hahaha. Seriously though no apologies needed. 1 Sygnetix reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sygnetix 140 Posted January 25, 2017 Lol, might trigger some wailing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Milienius said: We should just rename the thread to Make VSDs Great Again hahaha. Seriously though no apologies needed. We don't need to make them great. They ARE great. 1 Milienius reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milienius 143 Posted February 1, 2017 So just so everyone in this thread knows I tested the fleet the other day. Sadly my opponent who was having fun just fooling around brough triple ISDs with Motti and RBDs....the exact kind of fleet mine DOESN'T want to fight hahaha. That being said I blew up one, damaged another and didn't get tabled which isn't half bad considering lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
