A few Escape from Umbar questions (and one from Return to Mirkwood)

[naverag 11]

I think I know what to do with most of these, but wanted to check I'm understanding right how to read cards in this game:

 

Cards that "put [an enemy] into play engaged with [a] player" do not trigger "when [this enemy] engages a player" effects, correct?

 

When you have an "either / or" effect, for instance Umbar Sentry's "When Umbar Sentry attacks, either remove 1 progress token from the main qust, or Umbar Sentry gets +2ATT for this attack", if only one is possible (in this case, if there is no progress on the main quest) then you have to do the one that is possible rather than trying the other and failing?

 

The shadow effect on "Enemy Pursuit" is "Attacking enemy makes an additional attack against you after this one". Does the attacking enemy get a new shadow card for the new attack (my guess is no)?

 

Southron Soldier's text reads "Forcd: After Southron Soldier engages you, either ... or Southron Soldier makes an immediate attack." Does Southron Soldier get a shadow card for that attack (my guess is no, again)?

 

And one from much earlier, from Return to Mirkwood: if Gollum's threat raise causes the player guarding him to go past 50 threat, do the players lose before there's a chance to move Gollum across to another player?

[dalestephenson 1,482]

1) Cards that put an enemy in play with you *do* cause engagement triggers to kick in.  Mablung rejoice.

 

2) If you can only do one of an either/or, you have do that one.  You can't prevent Umbar Sentry from getting +2 attack unless you can remove progress.

 

3) When there's a new additional attack due to a shadow card, you deal a new shadow card (if one is available -- an empty deck outside the quest phase prevents shadows from being dealt).

 

4) When there's an attack outside the combat phase, you deal a shadow card for that attack.  This includes Southron Soldier attacking in the engagement phase.

 

5) A new player is chosen to guard after the threat raise, so if the threat raise eliminates the player you have lost.

[naverag 11]

Another, vaguely related question: if a Forced effect instructs an enemy to engage a player it's already engaged with, does it engage that player? That is, do when-engaged effects trigger when that happens?

For eample, in Return to Mirkwood, Attercop, Attercop has Forced: At the beginning of the encounter phase, Attercop, Attercop automatically engages the player guarding Gollum, regardless of his threat. If you're guarding Gollum and already engaged with Attercop, Attercop at the beginning of the encounter phase, does that Forced effect trigger again, so you can ready Sam, draw a card from Lore Pippin, get a resource from Mablung, etc?

Or to pick an example where it's terrible for the player rather than good, if you're on stage 4 of Return to Mirkwood ("Forced: At the beginning of the combat phase, all enemies in play engage the player guarding Gollum.") and there's a Mirkwood Bats in the staging area ("Forced: After Mirkwood Bats engages a player, deal 1 damage to each character controlled by the player guarding Gollum."), and you have higher threat than the Bats' engagement cost, do you get hit twice by that Forced effect, once when they engage you and again when then they engage you from the quest card effect?

[987654321 232]

I believe when an enemy "engages" someone it is already engaged with, nothing happens.

[Seastan 1,324]

2 hours ago, naverag said:

Another, vaguely related question: if a Forced effect instructs an enemy to engage a player it's already engaged with, does it engage that player? That is, do when-engaged effects trigger when that happens?

For eample, in Return to Mirkwood, Attercop, Attercop has Forced: At the beginning of the encounter phase, Attercop, Attercop automatically engages the player guarding Gollum, regardless of his threat. If you're guarding Gollum and already engaged with Attercop, Attercop at the beginning of the encounter phase, does that Forced effect trigger again, so you can ready Sam, draw a card from Lore Pippin, get a resource from Mablung, etc?

Or to pick an example where it's terrible for the player rather than good, if you're on stage 4 of Return to Mirkwood ("Forced: At the beginning of the combat phase, all enemies in play engage the player guarding Gollum.") and there's a Mirkwood Bats in the staging area ("Forced: After Mirkwood Bats engages a player, deal 1 damage to each character controlled by the player guarding Gollum."), and you have higher threat than the Bats' engagement cost, do you get hit twice by that Forced effect, once when they engage you and again when then they engage you from the quest card effect?

The one thing that has helped me remember when I can trigger engagement effects is this:

You have engaged an enemy (and that enemy has engaged you) if and only if that card has physically moved into your play area from somewhere else.

As far as I know there are no exceptions to this. In certain quests there are enemies that are "considered to be engaged with you" like Durin's Bane from Shadow and Flame, but since it stays in the staging area and does not physically move into your play area, you cannot trigger engagement effects.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Seastan

[naverag 11]

Thankyou both (and dalestephenson earlier). That's a good way of thinking of it, Seastan, I'll remember that.