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Kanan Crew and Inertial Dampeners

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After watching some videos online and a recent discussion with a regular opponent a question about the interaction between Kanan Crew and Inertial Dampeners (ID) has come up.

Specifically: can you use Kanan to remove the stress from using IDs?

The basic argument against using Kanan seems to be that the sentence structure on the ID card means you take the stress after all manoeuvre steps have been completed. I suppose the real question is what weight does the presence of the full stop after manoeuvre actually carry? In other words, is there a functional difference in the rules for IDs if the full stop was replaced by a comma?

For reference, the two rules are below:

Inertial Dampeners:

"When you reveal your manoeuvre, you may discard this card to instead perform a white [sTOP] manoeuvre. Then receive a stress token."

Kanan Jarrus:

"Once per round, after a friendly ship at Range 1-2 executes a white manoeuvre, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship."

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Kanan triggers before ID assigns the stress.You perform the stop maneuver from ID, resolve any resulting triggers, and then assign the stress.

 

This has been confirmed by email responses from FFG.

Edited by WWHSD

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Kanan triggers before ID assigns the stress.You perform the stop maneuver from ID, resolve any resulting triggers, and then assign the stress.

 

This has been confirmed by email responses from FFG.

I see, thanks for the reply. Any link to the e-mails?

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Kanan triggers before ID assigns the stress.You perform the stop maneuver from ID, resolve any resulting triggers, and then assign the stress.

 

This has been confirmed by email responses from FFG.

 

Curious - Why would this be different than combining Kanan and the new Falcon title?

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Kanan triggers before ID assigns the stress.You perform the stop maneuver from ID, resolve any resulting triggers, and then assign the stress.

 

This has been confirmed by email responses from FFG.

 

Curious - Why would this be different than combining Kanan and the new Falcon title?

The reasoning literally seems to revolve around the full stop before "then".

I agree it seems very odd but it seems they might well be treated differently.

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New Falcon Title:

After you execute a 3-speed bank maneuver, if you are not touching another ship and you are not stressed, you may receive 1 stress token to rotate your ship 180 degrees.

Steps - Reveal your dial - Execute a White Maneuver - Receive a stress - Rotate Ship.

 

Inertial Dampeners:

When you reveal your maneuver, you may discard this card to instead perform a white [stop 0] maneuver. Then receive 1 stress token.

Steps - Reveal your dial - Discard a card - Execute a White Maneuver - Receive a stress.

 

Kanan Crew:

Once per round, after a friendly ship at Range 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship.

With the Falcon Title, it has been ruled that you can trigger Kanan after the rotation is complete to discard stress.

It makes no sense that Dampeners shouldn't work the same way.  I don't have HOTR yet, but I would be arguing to use it the same way until a FAQ  change came out that said I couldn't. 

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Kanan triggers before ID assigns the stress.You perform the stop maneuver from ID, resolve any resulting triggers, and then assign the stress.

 

This has been confirmed by email responses from FFG.

 

Curious - Why would this be different than combining Kanan and the new Falcon title?

 

Swx57-millennium-falcon.png

 

The Falcon title triggers at the same time as Kanan. You are able to choose the order in which the two effects resolve.

 

"Do X. Then do Y" is not the same thing mechanically as "After X, Do Y". 

 

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Oh, FFS. This is right up there with "what does and doesn't count as a dice modification" for evergreen questions on this board.

The new Falcon title triggers after the maneuver, which is the same timing as Kanan, so you get to choose the order in which they resolve.

Inertial Dampeners triggers at dial reveal. It then tells you to do one thing (perform a white stop maneuver) and then another thing (receive a stress). The second thing the card tells you to do is not an independent triggered effect with an implied timing window of "after" the first thing the card tells you to do. Nothing triggers at the same time as Kanan, so you don't get to manipulate the order.

  • Reveal Your Dial
  • Trigger ID
    • Discard ID
    • Execute stop maneuver
      • This is where Kanan triggers. If you already had a stress, you can remove it. But you're still getting the ID stress later on.
    • Receive a stress from ID

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New Falcon Title:

After you execute a 3-speed bank maneuver, if you are not touching another ship and you are not stressed, you may receive 1 stress token to rotate your ship 180 degrees.

Steps - Reveal your dial - Execute a White Maneuver - Receive a stress - Rotate Ship.

 

Inertial Dampeners:

When you reveal your maneuver, you may discard this card to instead perform a white [stop 0] maneuver. Then receive 1 stress token.

Steps - Reveal your dial - Discard a card - Execute a White Maneuver - Receive a stress.

 

Kanan Crew:

Once per round, after a friendly ship at Range 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship.

With the Falcon Title, it has been ruled that you can trigger Kanan after the rotation is complete to discard stress.

It makes no sense that Dampeners shouldn't work the same way.  I don't have HOTR yet, but I would be arguing to use it the same way until a FAQ  change came out that said I couldn't. 

 

You've got those wrong. 

 

Falcon Title works like this:

 

1. Reveal dial

2. Execute maneuver

3. Resolve effects that trigger after executing a maneuver (Kanan or Falcon).

4. Choose to resolve the Falcon title effect.

5. Choose to resolve Kanan.

 

ID works like this:

 

1. Reveal dial.

2. Trigger ID.

3. Execute the white stop maneuver.

4. Resolve effects that trigger after executing a maneuver (Kanan).

5. Resolve Kanan's effect.

6. Receive a stress from ID.

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This one statement is logic that I did not come to the same initial conclusion on:

"Do X. Then do Y" is not the same thing mechanically as "After X, Do Y". 

 

My interpretation was that since in both cases Y literal timing happens at some point after X occurs - then choice of resolving was up to you, especially since the wording is inside the ID card with the maneuver.

 

I think I understand how the separation of the word "then" is interpreted now. Thanks WWHSD.

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This one statement is logic that I did not come to the same initial conclusion on:

"Do X. Then do Y" is not the same thing mechanically as "After X, Do Y". 

 

My interpretation was that since in both cases Y literal timing happens at some point after X occurs - then choice of resolving was up to you, especially since the wording is inside the ID card with the maneuver.

The ad absurdium endpoint of that reasoning is: why should the sequences on cards be treated as chains of triggered events but not the sequences in the rules? "Okay, I have Kanan and Push the Limit. I execute a white maneuver, and I'm going to trigger Kanan, but my Perform Action step also happens 'after' my maneuver, so I'm going to choose to resolve that first, take an action, Push the Limit, and then resolve Kanan to clear the resulting stress."

Now obviously if the devs wanted sequences on cards to be trigger chains they could just arbitrarily rule that the sequences in the rules don't work that way. But we have rulings now that indicate cards don't work that way either.

 

I think I understand how the separation of the word "then" is interpreted now. Thanks WWHSD.

Just in case anybody thought my "Oh FFS" was directed at them: my frustration upthread was not about people not coming to the correct interpretation on their own. It was because it feels like we've discussed this interaction to death already.

I would love to see a Rules Forum feature where you can tag topics as being related to particular cards and then search for threads that involve the two cards you're wondering about.

Edited by digitalbusker

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I would love to see a Rules Forum feature where you can tag topics as being related to particular cards and then search for threads that involve the two cards you're wondering about.

 

Since we're talking about wish list items: I'd love to see the email responses to rules questions from FFG having something like a ticket number that can be looked up and referenced. 

Edited by WWHSD

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The reasoning literally seems to revolve around the full stop before "then".

I agree it seems very odd but it seems they might well be treated differently.

To show another example from the FAQ, look at the entries for Push the Limit and Experimental Interface. You can trigger Experimental Interface off of the second action from Push the Limit specifically because the card says "you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar.  Then receive 1 stress token."  Since Experimental Interface triggers off of the free action, it occurs before you receive the PTL stress which would prevent you from performing the third action.

 

ID and kanan works the same way.  Kanan triggers off of the white maneuver which is before you recieve the stress token.

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Oh FFS this is right up there with the evergreen forum jerk replies on this board. 

Oh, FFS. This is right up there with "what does and doesn't count as a dice modification" for evergreen questions on this board.

The new Falcon title triggers after the maneuver, which is the same timing as Kanan, so you get to choose the order in which they resolve.

Inertial Dampeners triggers at dial reveal. It then tells you to do one thing (perform a white stop maneuver) and then another thing (receive a stress). The second thing the card tells you to do is not an independent triggered effect with an implied timing window of "after" the first thing the card tells you to do. Nothing triggers at the same time as Kanan, so you don't get to manipulate the order.

  • Reveal Your Dial
  • Trigger ID
    • Discard ID
    • Execute stop maneuver
      • This is where Kanan triggers. If you already had a stress, you can remove it. But you're still getting the ID stress later on.
    • Receive a stress from ID

 

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Oh, FFS. This is right up there with "what does and doesn't count as a dice modification" for evergreen questions on this board.

 

 

I'm sorry if asking for clarification on something annoys you so much. Seems like a fairly reasonable question to me and given the answers so far I don't think it's as clear-cut as you think it is. It's a bit ridiculous to claim it's equivalent to asking "what counts as dice modification". Also, I did search for the question before posting. There are a bunch of questions about Kana and the HotR title, some leading to ID questions but there didn't seem to be anything definitive, hence my question. I also don't agree with your placement of the stress from ID in your sequence. I don't think there's any definitive evidence in the rules that's where it happens.

 

 

The reasoning literally seems to revolve around the full stop before "then".

I agree it seems very odd but it seems they might well be treated differently.

To show another example from the FAQ, look at the entries for Push the Limit and Experimental Interface. You can trigger Experimental Interface off of the second action from Push the Limit specifically because the card says "you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar.  Then receive 1 stress token."  Since Experimental Interface triggers off of the free action, it occurs before you receive the PTL stress which would prevent you from performing the third action.

 

ID and kanan works the same way.  Kanan triggers off of the white maneuver which is before you recieve the stress token.

 

 

Thanks, that's a helpful analogy and I can see where the conclusion regarding Kanan and ID comes from. However, I still don't find this compelling for the following reason:

 

The FAQ says Kanan kicks in after the Clean-Up step. That's the final step of executing a manoeuvre, coming immediately before the Perform Action step. So when exactly does the stress from ID happen? If it's not during the Clean-Up step when is it? There'd have to be another step between Clean-Up and the Perform Action step in order for this interpretation to work IMO. 

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Oh, FFS. This is right up there with "what does and doesn't count as a dice modification" for evergreen questions on this board.

 

 

I'm sorry if asking for clarification on something annoys you so much. Seems like a fairly reasonable question to me and given the answers so far I don't think it's as clear-cut as you think it is. It's a bit ridiculous to claim it's equivalent to asking "what counts as dice modification". Also, I did search for the question before posting. There are a bunch of questions about Kana and the HotR title, some leading to ID questions but there didn't seem to be anything definitive, hence my question. I also don't agree with your placement of the stress from ID in your sequence. I don't think there's any definitive evidence in the rules that's where it happens.

 

 

The reasoning literally seems to revolve around the full stop before "then".

I agree it seems very odd but it seems they might well be treated differently.

To show another example from the FAQ, look at the entries for Push the Limit and Experimental Interface. You can trigger Experimental Interface off of the second action from Push the Limit specifically because the card says "you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar.  Then receive 1 stress token."  Since Experimental Interface triggers off of the free action, it occurs before you receive the PTL stress which would prevent you from performing the third action.

 

ID and kanan works the same way.  Kanan triggers off of the white maneuver which is before you recieve the stress token.

 

 

Thanks, that's a helpful analogy and I can see where the conclusion regarding Kanan and ID comes from. However, I still don't find this compelling for the following reason:

 

The FAQ says Kanan kicks in after the Clean-Up step. That's the final step of executing a manoeuvre, coming immediately before the Perform Action step. So when exactly does the stress from ID happen? If it's not during the Clean-Up step when is it? There'd have to be another step between Clean-Up and the Perform Action step in order for this interpretation to work IMO. 

 

 

ID is an effect that happens instead of the usual maneuver step. So, i don't think we need another step between maneuver and action, because this is some other thing.

 

Maybe that's why people don't quite understand how ID works, because they think they are executing the manuever as if it was a normal one, while what is happening is that you are replacing that step of the activation phase for an ability with two effects: one that makes you execute a maneuver and other that gives you a stress token.

Resolve the first (with its triggers, if some), THEN resolve the other (with its triggers).

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I really don't want to ask this question but here goes. When is the stress from ID applied during activation? It seems to me to fall after Check Pilot Stress (2b) and before Cleanup (2c). But if Kanan comes in after Cleanup and doesn't work on the stress from ID then it's applied just before Actions but after Cleanup?

Never mind. This makes no sense to me. I'll just follow it until a FAQ comes out.

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I really don't want to ask this question but here goes. When is the stress from ID applied during activation? It seems to me to fall after Check Pilot Stress (2b) and before Cleanup (2c). But if Kanan comes in after Cleanup and doesn't work on the stress from ID then it's applied just before Actions but after Cleanup?

Never mind. This makes no sense to me. I'll just follow it until a FAQ comes out.

Inertial Dampeners hace two effects: perform a white maneuver and assign a stress token.

The stress token isn't assigned after Check Pilot Stress. Neither after Cleanup. It is a completely independent effect that resolves after the first effect is completed. Including all effects that thd maneuver triggers, such as Kanan.

As joeshmoe554 said, just look at the PtL entry of the FAQ. It's the exact same wording as ID, and it allows effects to be triggered before assigning the stress token.

At this point of the thread, if there's someone that still don't get it it's because they choose not to. Seems perfectly clear and well explained to me.

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I really don't want to ask this question but here goes. When is the stress from ID applied during activation? It seems to me to fall after Check Pilot Stress (2b) and before Cleanup (2c). But if Kanan comes in after Cleanup and doesn't work on the stress from ID then it's applied just before Actions but after Cleanup?

Never mind. This makes no sense to me. I'll just follow it until a FAQ comes out.

Inertial Dampeners hace two effects: perform a white maneuver and assign a stress token.

The stress token isn't assigned after Check Pilot Stress. Neither after Cleanup. It is a completely independent effect that resolves after the first effect is completed. Including all effects that thd maneuver triggers, such as Kanan.

 

 

I agree with the first sentence. The next two I'm not so sure about. It has to be assigned at some point and I see no reason to make the conclusion you do. I'm not sure how the final two sentences are relevant. All Kanan cares about is whether there's a stress on your ship at the Clean-Up step. If yes, remove stress.

 

As joeshmoe554 said, just look at the PtL entry of the FAQ. It's the exact same wording as ID, and it allows effects to be triggered before assigning the stress token.

At this point of the thread, if there's someone that still don't get it it's because they choose not to. Seems perfectly clear and well explained to me.

 

I've read the PtL and Experimental Interface rulings. It seems to me they're not directly applicable. If anything, they may even support the use of Kanan. As I understand those rulings they allow you to interrupt one action resolution to trigger another, allowing you to nest actions with PtL or Experimental Interface, which is a fairly well-established precedent. I'm not so sure about the logical leap from there to "Kanan doesn't clear stress". If anything it could be argued the Ptl/EI ruling is allowing the player to control the timing of triggers that happen at the same time, which is also a well-established precedent.

 

I'd love to have your ironclad certainty but I don't see any justification for it. And no, it's not because I'm choosing not to. For me the key question is: does ID assign stress at some point before the end of the Clean-Up step? If it does, Kanan can remove it. If not, when is it assigned? I don't see any other timing window that could apply.

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I really don't want to ask this question but here goes. When is the stress from ID applied during activation? It seems to me to fall after Check Pilot Stress (2b) and before Cleanup (2c). But if Kanan comes in after Cleanup and doesn't work on the stress from ID then it's applied just before Actions but after Cleanup?

Never mind. This makes no sense to me. I'll just follow it until a FAQ comes out.

Inertial Dampeners hace two effects: perform a white maneuver and assign a stress token.

The stress token isn't assigned after Check Pilot Stress. Neither after Cleanup. It is a completely independent effect that resolves after the first effect is completed. Including all effects that thd maneuver triggers, such as Kanan.

 

 

I agree with the first sentence. The next two I'm not so sure about. It has to be assigned at some point and I see no reason to make the conclusion you do. I'm not sure how the final two sentences are relevant. All Kanan cares about is whether there's a stress on your ship at the Clean-Up step. If yes, remove stress.

 

As joeshmoe554 said, just look at the PtL entry of the FAQ. It's the exact same wording as ID, and it allows effects to be triggered before assigning the stress token.

At this point of the thread, if there's someone that still don't get it it's because they choose not to. Seems perfectly clear and well explained to me.

 

I've read the PtL and Experimental Interface rulings. It seems to me they're not directly applicable. If anything, they may even support the use of Kanan. As I understand those rulings they allow you to interrupt one action resolution to trigger another, allowing you to nest actions with PtL or Experimental Interface, which is a fairly well-established precedent. I'm not so sure about the logical leap from there to "Kanan doesn't clear stress". If anything it could be argued the Ptl/EI ruling is allowing the player to control the timing of triggers that happen at the same time, which is also a well-established precedent.

 

I'd love to have your ironclad certainty but I don't see any justification for it. And no, it's not because I'm choosing not to. For me the key question is: does ID assign stress at some point before the end of the Clean-Up step? If it does, Kanan can remove it. If not, when is it assigned? I don't see any other timing window that could apply.

 

 

You agree with the first sentence. All right, that's all you need.

 

Inertial Dampeners has two effects:

 

- Perform a maneuver.

 

- Assign a stress token (<- this is the timing window you are looking for. It is created by Inertial Dampeners. As in PtL you don't have a specific time window to assign the stress token, you just have to follow the upgrade card text).

 

 

So, if we go a little deeper:

 

- Perform a maneuver (with these steps, as any other maneuver)

- Move the ship

- Check Pilot Stress

- Clean-up (this is where Kanan triggers, as said in the FAQ)

 

- Assign stress token

 

 

You can control the timing of triggers that happen at the same time. But, as with PtL, these ones don't happen at the same time. You can't choose.

 

BTW, when you nest actions with PtL and EI, you aren't interrupting the resolution of an action. You are triggering an ability after executing and action, and assigning a stress token when you resolve that trigger.

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I really don't want to ask this question but here goes. When is the stress from ID applied during activation? It seems to me to fall after Check Pilot Stress (2b) and before Cleanup (2c). But if Kanan comes in after Cleanup and doesn't work on the stress from ID then it's applied just before Actions but after Cleanup?

Never mind. This makes no sense to me. I'll just follow it until a FAQ comes out.

Inertial Dampeners hace two effects: perform a white maneuver and assign a stress token.

The stress token isn't assigned after Check Pilot Stress. Neither after Cleanup. It is a completely independent effect that resolves after the first effect is completed. Including all effects that thd maneuver triggers, such as Kanan.

As joeshmoe554 said, just look at the PtL entry of the FAQ. It's the exact same wording as ID, and it allows effects to be triggered before assigning the stress token.

At this point of the thread, if there's someone that still don't get it it's because they choose not to. Seems perfectly clear and well explained to me.

Really I can do without the snark of the next to last sentence. There are effects that specifically state to take stress after the Check Pilot Stress but ID isn't one of them. Also, you're assuming that effects that happen during or after maneuvers nest like actions do. I don't believe this has ever been officially acknowledged by FFG. Kanan's interaction with ID may be explained in an upcoming FAQ or the email ruling may be reversed.

The FAQ says that Kanan activates after the Cleanup step which implies that it is before the Activation Phase. The stress from using ID has to be applied sometime after the maneuver and before the Action phase. That means it, the stress, happens either 1) immediately after the maneuver, 2) during the Check Pilot Stress, 3) at Cleanup or 4) during the same time frame for Kanan. This is why I asked the question.

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I really don't want to ask this question but here goes. When is the stress from ID applied during activation? It seems to me to fall after Check Pilot Stress (2b) and before Cleanup (2c). But if Kanan comes in after Cleanup and doesn't work on the stress from ID then it's applied just before Actions but after Cleanup?

Never mind. This makes no sense to me. I'll just follow it until a FAQ comes out.

Inertial Dampeners hace two effects: perform a white maneuver and assign a stress token.

The stress token isn't assigned after Check Pilot Stress. Neither after Cleanup. It is a completely independent effect that resolves after the first effect is completed. Including all effects that thd maneuver triggers, such as Kanan.

As joeshmoe554 said, just look at the PtL entry of the FAQ. It's the exact same wording as ID, and it allows effects to be triggered before assigning the stress token.

At this point of the thread, if there's someone that still don't get it it's because they choose not to. Seems perfectly clear and well explained to me.

Really I can do without the snark of the next to last sentence. There are effects that specifically state to take stress after the Check Pilot Stress but ID isn't one of them. Also, you're assuming that effects that happen during or after maneuvers nest like actions do. I don't believe this has ever been officially acknowledged by FFG. Kanan's interaction with ID may be explained in an upcoming FAQ or the email ruling may be reversed.

The FAQ says that Kanan activates after the Cleanup step which implies that it is before the Activation Phase. The stress from using ID has to be applied sometime after the maneuver and before the Action phase. That means it, the stress, happens either 1) immediately after the maneuver, 2) during the Check Pilot Stress, 3) at Cleanup or 4) during the same time frame for Kanan. This is why I asked the question.

I'm sorry, but i don't know how to explain it better.

I'm not assuming anything, except that cards written the same works the same way. PtL has two effects sepparated by a THEN. Effects triggered by the first effect happens before the second. ID is just the same, it doesn't matter what effects are.

The clean-up step is the 3rd step of executing a maneuver. It's NOT before the activation phase.

Even if you don't what to believe what i said before, kanan, as you said, activates right after the Clean-Up step.

The stress token happens at none of your options. 2 and 3 are INSIDE the maneuver execution, and i think ID text states clearly that that's not the case. 1 and 4 are actually the exact same thing, as kanan is an "after executing a maneuver" effect. And that means it triggers by a maneuver being executed.

The stress is applied after executing the maneuver, but it is not a triggered effect. That "THEN" in the card text states just a resolving order. First, do one thing, then (second) the other. If it would supposed to be a triggered effect, it should be worded as any other triggered effect in the game: with the word "after" (or "before").

And, since it is not a triggered effect, just the second effect of an ability, the first one must be completed before you can resolve it. Including the effects triggered by the first one. Like Kanan, in the case of ID.

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I really don't want to ask this question but here goes. When is the stress from ID applied during activation? It seems to me to fall after Check Pilot Stress (2b) and before Cleanup (2c). But if Kanan comes in after Cleanup and doesn't work on the stress from ID then it's applied just before Actions but after Cleanup?

Never mind. This makes no sense to me. I'll just follow it until a FAQ comes out.

Inertial Dampeners hace two effects: perform a white maneuver and assign a stress token.

The stress token isn't assigned after Check Pilot Stress. Neither after Cleanup. It is a completely independent effect that resolves after the first effect is completed. Including all effects that thd maneuver triggers, such as Kanan.

As joeshmoe554 said, just look at the PtL entry of the FAQ. It's the exact same wording as ID, and it allows effects to be triggered before assigning the stress token.

At this point of the thread, if there's someone that still don't get it it's because they choose not to. Seems perfectly clear and well explained to me.

Really I can do without the snark of the next to last sentence. There are effects that specifically state to take stress after the Check Pilot Stress but ID isn't one of them. Also, you're assuming that effects that happen during or after maneuvers nest like actions do. I don't believe this has ever been officially acknowledged by FFG. Kanan's interaction with ID may be explained in an upcoming FAQ or the email ruling may be reversed.

The FAQ says that Kanan activates after the Cleanup step which implies that it is before the Activation Phase. The stress from using ID has to be applied sometime after the maneuver and before the Action phase. That means it, the stress, happens either 1) immediately after the maneuver, 2) during the Check Pilot Stress, 3) at Cleanup or 4) during the same time frame for Kanan. This is why I asked the question.

I'm sorry, but i don't know how to explain it better.

I'm not assuming anything, except that cards written the same works the same way. PtL has two effects sepparated by a THEN. Effects triggered by the first effect happens before the second. ID is just the same, it doesn't matter what effects are.

The clean-up step is the 3rd step of executing a maneuver. It's NOT before the activation phase.

Even if you don't what to believe what i said before, kanan, as you said, activates right after the Clean-Up step.

The stress token happens at none of your options. 2 and 3 are INSIDE the maneuver execution, and i think ID text states clearly that that's not the case. 1 and 4 are actually the exact same thing, as kanan is an "after executing a maneuver" effect. And that means it triggers by a maneuver being executed.

The stress is applied after executing the maneuver, but it is not a triggered effect. That "THEN" in the card text states just a resolving order. First, do one thing, then (second) the other. If it would supposed to be a triggered effect, it should be worded as any other triggered effect in the game: with the word "after" (or "before").

And, since it is not a triggered effect, just the second effect of an ability, the first one must be completed before you can resolve it. Including the effects triggered by the first one. Like Kanan, in the case of ID.

 

First off I mis-typed three words in my response to you. The following quote is:

 

That means it, the stress, happens either 1) immediately after the maneuver, 2) during the Check Pilot Stress, 3) at Cleanup or 4) during the same time frame for Kanan.

 

And Should read:

 

That means it, the stress, happens either 1) immediately after movement, 2) during the Check Pilot Stress, 3) at Cleanup or 4) during the same time frame for Kanan. This is why I asked the question.

 

The second mis-type was:

 

The stress from using ID has to be applied sometime after the maneuver and before the Action phase.

 

And should read:

 

The stress from using ID has to be applied sometime after movement and before the Action phase.

 

Finally, the last quote reads:

 

 

The FAQ says that Kanan activates after the Cleanup step which implies that it is before the Activation Phase.

 

And should read:

 

 

The FAQ says that Kanan activates after the Cleanup step which implies that it is before the Action Phase.

 

 

There's a limited time frame for the stress from the white maneuver of ID to be applied. It can't be applied before the card is played and has to be applied before the Action Phase. Do you at least agree with that statement? The word "then" is there to inform you take a stress after performing a white maneuver, which is rare if not unique in the game.

 

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Of course i agree with that. I have already wrote When it is applied.

But you keep saying "the stress from the white maneuver".

Its not a stress from a white maneuver. Its a stress from an ability. And its not rare.

Daredevil does the same thing. PtL and EI assign stress after doing an action. Expert Handling after doing a barrel roll. There are A LOT of effects that add stress tokens.

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Of course i agree with that. I have already wrote When it is applied.

But you keep saying "the stress from the white maneuver".

Its not a stress from a white maneuver. Its a stress from an ability. And its not rare.

Daredevil does the same thing. PtL and EI assign stress after doing an action. Expert Handling after doing a barrel roll. There are A LOT of effects that add stress tokens.

I'm referring to maneuvers or movements that are white, that result in stress, not stacking actions that result in stress.

If you agree that the stress from ID happens after the stop maneuver, then logically the time frame for it to end is before the Cleanup phase leaving only immediately after the stop maneuver, during the Check Pilot Stress Phase or in the space after checking Pilot Stress and before Cleanup.

If I was a betting man I'd bet this gets reversed in the FAQ like "GONK" was.

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