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Sensor Jammers on generic TIE Advanced.

Marksmanship on Horton Hawg

Hot Shot Blaster/MF on Z-95s.

Fun stuff. Why doesn't anyone try these things? Seems like fun to me!

 

I think you've unwittingly made a good point.

When the goal is to win at all costs then the playing field is level, in that people understand what the goal is and the tools available to reach that goal - everything is prescribed, and so long as you stay within those rules then you can do whatever you think will bring you success.

When the goal is to 'have fun' then the definition of what that means is Subjective not Objective.  What one person finds fun might still be crushingly overpowered to somebody else, or utter rubbish to somebody else.  It can definitely be an issue in stepping away from highly competitive gameplay to something more casual.  How much should the experienced player pull their punches, and should the inexperienced player be pulling punches a bit as well or swinging for the fences?  It can be a tricky balance to strike.

When FFG asked me to write for them I was planning an article hailing the benefits of tournament play, with that as one of the points.

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We discussed the last time any noobs came into the store, maybe two months ago, and how they were accidentally paired with a couple of Munchkins, and how they've never been seen again.

 

 

That's not really anything to do with the game, but the attitude of the players.  Of course an experienced player is going to beat a newbie.  It's how that experienced player handles themselves that makes the difference.  Gloat like an ass and that newbie is never going to want to play again.  Try to helpful and instructive and you've gained a new player.

 

 

^ This.... and I could be reading too much into this,  but the fact you are calling them noobs probably say a whole lot about your groups attitude to new players.

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X-Wing will eventually be killed by its distribution model: the older it gets the more the combos are split over several expansions. Early on the distribution model wasn't a problem: you had more options with more ships but they weren't that much more powerful: often not upgrading ships at all was the way to go because of the high price of named pilots.

 

The amount of ships in a list doesn't vary that much but the amount of expansions for a new player to build a list just goes up and up and up. They introducted rotation to stop the LCG being killed in the same way.

 

Eventually they'll either have to reboot or go on a banning spree to chop the top off the power curve.

Edited by Blue Five

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[...] Sorry, but I don't know how to introduce this game to people anymore. I've got friends who are genuinely interested, but just can't manage to get their heads around the squad building [...]

 

I know the feeling and have seen it in our group. Some are playing a different miniature game, easier setup, easier list build, easier to play missions, relies more on the player than the number of red attack dice. Too bad really, since I really like the Star Wars Universe and X-Wing.

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My only complaint about the game is having some large based ships having agility equal to or better than small based ships. A Lancer class pursuit vessel shouldn't be harder to hit than a Y-wing. Regardless of how it handles it's a big effen target in comparison.

As more ships are added it's going to be harder for FFG to keep things "fresh". Movement wise you only have so many maneuvers on the dial and only 3 colors to choose from. Hence the upgrade cards, pilot abilities and faction specific add-ons. And, as the game ages, there are going to be more op combos found simply because there are a lot more players than play testers. Some of the gamers on this forum are just evil geniuses when it comes to squad building.

It's up to us, the players, to keep the game fun.

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We discussed the last time any noobs came into the store, maybe two months ago, and how they were accidentally paired with a couple of Munchkins, and how they've never been seen again.

 

That's not really anything to do with the game, but the attitude of the players.  Of course an experienced player is going to beat a newbie.  It's how that experienced player handles themselves that makes the difference.  Gloat like an ass and that newbie is never going to want to play again.  Try to helpful and instructive and you've gained a new player.

 

^ This.... and I could be reading too much into this,  but the fact you are calling them noobs probably say a whole lot about your groups attitude to new players.

I don't think "newbie" is being used as a slam. I still consider myself a noob compared to many here and I've been playing for two years. Someone who shows up with a fresh out of the box TFA core set is a newbie. He may know the rules by heart and memorized the FAQ but that doesn't translate into gaming experience. Like DailyRiich said it's how he's treated by the experienced player that matters most.

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The worst part is you can go out of your way to pair NEWBS together in attempts to enhance their intrinsic(!) value of XWING... but if they don't like BLIND DIAL (manuevers) frustration, there's nothing you can do that will change that.

Lets face it, this game isn't for everyone.

 

My favorite part of XWING is BLIND DIAL(S), and I try to instill that same core value(s) in NEWBS... but you can only do so much.

 

To be honest, this is NOT the fault of the FLGS.

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The over-emphasis on competition and tournament play harms the game long term in my opinion. I don't think FFG have done much to counter it, either. I hope the recent corellian campaign for Armada is a bit of a tester for something similar for X-Wing.

People who are 'into' competition but into a system, effectively work hard to 'break' it and get themselves the options that are most likely / easy to win the SAME boring old contextless 100 point death matches, then move on. I just don't really see the fun in it and as people have said, it's kind of a waste of the licence. There's no point having beautiful models, and even nicer repaints, if that's all you're bothered about.

Long after all the meta obsessed tournament hot-shots have moved on to the next big thing, I will still be breaking out X-Wing with my friends and kids to have Boba chase Han, or to have Luke Biggs and Wedge fight TIEs to get to the DS1, or see what would happen if Bossk and Dengar have a fight over who gets the bounty, or see what happens when Carnor Jax decides he wants to attack Lt. Blount and some rookie friend in an A-Wing.

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As I've said on the S&V Podcast, X-Wing 1.0 has gotten too big for its britches and consequently I think we've reached the spot where we need a second edition to cleanup the cruft.

 

The addition of the Autothrusters Expansion Pack caused the designers to start adding more and more red dice, the addition of more red dice caused the need for more tanky ships, queue x7 title; we've now got 100+ unique game mechanics  that create emergent behavior resulting in game breaking combinations like Dengaroo winning the World Championship. 

 

We detailed the process of fixing it on the last podcast; frankly it isn't that hard. FFG is dragging their feet on the issue, maybe they are worried about killing the golden goose, and are content to keep bandaiding things with tactical FAQ patches. I can't wait for the FAQ to break 50 pages in length :-)

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Sensor Jammers on generic TIE Advanced.

Marksmanship on Horton Hawg

Hot Shot Blaster/MF on Z-95s.

Fun stuff. Why doesn't anyone try these things? Seems like fun to me!

Oops, I guess it's now Experise on Horton, freeing that action up for vectored thrusters or EU. 40 pt Y-wing!

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As I've said on the S&V Podcast, X-Wing 1.0 has gotten too big for its britches and consequently I think we've reached the spot where we need a second edition to cleanup the cruft.

 

The addition of the Autothrusters Expansion Pack caused the designers to start adding more and more red dice, the addition of more red dice caused the need for more tanky ships, queue x7 title; we've now got 100+ unique game mechanics  that create emergent behavior resulting in game breaking combinations like Dengaroo winning the World Championship. 

 

We detailed the process of fixing it on the last podcast; frankly it isn't that hard. FFG is dragging their feet on the issue, maybe they are worried about killing the golden goose, and are content to keep bandaiding things with tactical FAQ patches. I can't wait for the FAQ to break 50 pages in length :-)

FFG might not agree with you on literally anything (I know I dont). And a DENGAROO "flown extremely well" won WORLDS... it wasn't some "game breaking combo" that won WORLDS or else Top 4 would've been all DENGAROO.

 

Edited by lazycomet

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As I've said on the S&V Podcast, X-Wing 1.0 has gotten too big for its britches and consequently I think we've reached the spot where we need a second edition to cleanup the cruft.

 

The addition of the Autothrusters Expansion Pack caused the designers to start adding more and more red dice, the addition of more red dice caused the need for more tanky ships, queue x7 title; we've now got 100+ unique game mechanics  that create emergent behavior resulting in game breaking combinations like Dengaroo winning the World Championship. 

 

We detailed the process of fixing it on the last podcast; frankly it isn't that hard. FFG is dragging their feet on the issue, maybe they are worried about killing the golden goose, and are content to keep bandaiding things with tactical FAQ patches. I can't wait for the FAQ to break 50 pages in length :-)

I think one of the things preventing a 2.0 reboot is what to do with all the consumers that have invested a TON of money into the game. If your new, improved version of X-Wing isn't compatible with the previous version there will be a huge backlash. Not thinking models but all the cardboard and cards.

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I don't think "newbie" is being used as a slam. I still consider myself a noob compared to many here and I've been playing for two years. Someone who shows up with a fresh out of the box TFA core set is a newbie. He may know the rules by heart and memorized the FAQ but that doesn't translate into gaming experience. Like DailyRiich said it's how he's treated by the experienced player that matters most.

 

No you're probably right it might just have been an expedient, but my inclination is to say that 'noob' (to a greater extent than 'newbie') is a slighly derogatory term for a new player.  I don't think I would call a new player a noob to their face across a table and I don't think I would use it when talking to another experienced group member. Maybe its just a hangover from early naughties internet gaming.

 

But your last point is completely aligned with mine - the treatment of experienced players to new players is probably the single most important thing for building up your gaming group.

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I don't think "newbie" is being used as a slam. I still consider myself a noob compared to many here and I've been playing for two years. Someone who shows up with a fresh out of the box TFA core set is a newbie. He may know the rules by heart and memorized the FAQ but that doesn't translate into gaming experience. Like DailyRiich said it's how he's treated by the experienced player that matters most.

 

No you're probably right it might just have been an expedient, but my inclination is to say that 'noob' (to a greater extent than 'newbie') is a slighly derogatory term for a new player.  I don't think I would call a new player a noob to their face across a table and I don't think I would use it when talking to another experienced group member. Maybe its just a hangover from early naughties internet gaming.

 

But your last point is completely aligned with mine - the treatment of experienced players to new players is probably the single most important thing for building up your gaming group.

 

 

From my (admittedly limited) experience, "newbie" or "newb" tends to refer simply to someone who is new to a game.  "Noob" refers to an irritating player who refuses to learn.  Yes, they all refer to relatively unskilled players, but the former are merely descriptors while the latter is an insult.  ("N00b", with 0's, is not actually a word, and excessive use of it tends to indicate that the speaker himself is a noob.) 

Edited by JJ48

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I’ve seen what the OP is talking about before.  I started in Wave 1 and had fun with it.  The game died out locally around Wave 3-4 for a few reasons.  Myself and another guy personally were responsible for bring the game back.  We made a FB page and were there every week.  We talked to people and got people into the game.  My friend has left for personal reasons, but our FB page has 265 members and there is an X-wing game night every night of the week somewhere in the greater metro area.  I’ve played and done well in tournaments and I’ve played nothing but casual games. 

 

Having personally recruited many people into the game, I’ve seen people drop out.  I’ve talked to them about why, as well.  I’d say that about 50% of the people I’ve seen get into the game drop out within 6 months.  Overwhelmingly the reason is that people don’t like playing against the tournament lists as they just want to have fun. 

 

When I’ve had conversations about this with people on the forums in the past, I’m constantly told that the scene is growing and that there is no real problem.  There are more and more people showing up at the large events every year.  Many people report more and more people showing up for game nights.  There is no problem with people dropping out, except for a small, fringe group. 

 

I think Star Wars Destiny has helped suck out some regular X-wing players enough to make it show in more areas.  I think more people might recognize that it happens more than to a small fringe group. 

 

The tournament version of this game has been pushed by FFG and by the majority of the player base for a long time.  Many people have gotten into the game and really get into the tournament scene.  To be good, you need to practice quite a lot with your list to become good at it.  When tournament season is upon a local area, it can be hard to find anything other than tournament games going on.  If your local area has lots of local tournaments then you might never leave tournament season.  For the players that don’t want to play tournament games all the time, it can be a challenge to locate games that they consider fun.  I have nothing against tournament games and understand that many people enjoy and prefer that style of play.  I’m not knocking them. 

 

I’ve kind of made it my mission to promote non-tournament play as I just didn’t see many people discussing it.  When I burnt out on the tournament scene, I considered quitting X-wing.  Before I did, I started to try all those odd missions and crazy lists and things that I always wanted to play. I found that I really did enjoy the game, but I was burnt out on the 100/6 tournament level of play.  My last job was quite dull and it let me spend too much time on these forums where I talked about my point of view and the casual version of this game.  I started my podcast.  I think in the past year these forums have gotten much better and accepting to the idea of Casual X-wing.  It used to be that if you didn’t like tournament gaming you were just shouted down and told that maybe this isn’t the game for you.  I’m happy to report that that doesn’t happen too much anymore (and I understand that someone will most likely post that this game isn’t for me anymore  J  ).  Oh, I’ve also had to block one or two members of the forums, too. 

 

Through my years of playing many different games (I’m 47 and been playing games since the 4th grade) I’ve seen my share of gaming communities grow and fade away.  Well, some have exploded, imploded, or even just vanished overnight!  I’ve found that it’s the responsibility of the various members of each gaming community to help that scene survive and possibly grow.  Each group needs to be willing to spend time to recruit new members.  Just last night I lost out on about 2 games of X-wing as I spent over an hour talking to two different father-and-son pairs that came in after buying the Core set.  They wanted to learn more about the game beyond the Core set and to be corrected on some mistakes they had made.  Sometimes you need to miss out on games to get more games in the long run.  Also, sometimes you need to listen to the other gamers in the gaming group.  Do some want to try something other than tournament prep?  Heroes of the Aturi Cluster?  Epic?  Someone want to run the Trench Run (recently revised, by the way).  Maybe you have a B-team list in  your back pocket for these people to play when they walk up to the table.  Maybe you lose out on some tournament prep to ensure that the gaming scene is still around after the next tournament season. 

 

If you want to see more of these non-tournament games in your area, you will most likely need to put out some effort before they will happen.  You can’t just walk into a game store on normal game night and ask for a game of epic.  You need to talk to people ahead of time to find others that want to try something different.  Does your gaming group have social media that they use?  Facebook group?  Have you tried posting on those places to look for a different type of game?  I’ve seen lurkers that don’t bother for tournament games come out of the wood work to play something different.  You would never know they were around if you don’t ask.  I’ve also seen some hard core tournament guys eager to play a game of Epic because they spent the money on the ships and actually wanted to use them.  Heroes of the Aturi Cluster has become pretty well known, even to tournament players.  You might be surprised when some of the normally hard core guys are willing to give it a try.  This is especially true if you time it right after tournament season (as people are burnt out on that style).  If you want to see your local gaming group change, you need to be willing to try. 

 

What else is out there other than tournament play?

  • Heroes of the Aturi Cluster
  • B-teams (sub-optimal lists)
  • 20 asteroids
  • Epic
  • Cinematic (like Trench Run or something made up)
  • Campaigns (such as in the epic ships)
  • Variable points (like 200 or 150)
  • Generics only (seriously X-wings aren't so bad when everyone is generic)
  • Mario Kart X-wing

 

I want to point out Cinematic from that list as I don’t think people really consider it.  For one, there are very rigid rules for Epic games.  To be honest, they really can turn into more broken versions of 100/6 because you have more points and toys to find the most broken combos.  What I’ve found to be the best is what’s generally considered Cinematic.   So, Dagobah Dave’s Trench Run is probably the most famous and best example, but it generally means playing something that sounds really cool.  I’ve created 300 vs 300 point games of epic where I write the rules for them.  I make a balanced list on each side with some built in tension for both teams.  How will the Imperials deal with the ordnance Y-wings?  How will the CR-90 stay out of the killing arc of the Raider?  Also, there is a local guy that loves Tie Punishers.  I’ve been working on a game where 4 Tie Punishers and a Gozanti (w/ Tie Fighters) need to blow up a Pirate Base.  Just make up something that sounds really fun.  It’s like pulling out all your Star Wars action figures and making up a story (while going PEW PEW), but you have actual rules to do it now! 

 

To summarize my long winded response, I think if you don’t believe that there is a problem and the game is thriving in your area, great.  Have fun with it.  If you think people are peeling off due to people being too stuck into the tournament mindset, then you need to be the change to bring about a Casual scene in your area.  In fact, I can probably help you figure out the best way to do it if you send me a PM.  If I have the time, I’d be more than willing to do it. 

 

Most importantly, have fun.  That’s why we do this, isn’t it?

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It's funny how our meta here in Switzerland is healthy as ever, and steadily growing. We're not a large country by any means, and even our national tournaments are comparatively tiny (the upcoming regional only has 36 slots), but there's 1-2 tournaments each month, and they're usually booked out months in advance. Fresh venues are entering the tournament scene, too. There's a healthy chatty WhatsApp group, quite a few teams in the region, and generally lots of fun. Yes, and also casual events, and custom format tournaments (like team matches with 2x60 points per side, or Mario Kart, or Escalation formats).

 

Personally, I haven't been as excited about X-Wing in general and the state of the meta in particular in a long time. Yes, there is obviously power creep, or maybe power shift (with stronger counters to some lists that used to be strong), but while the average list power level is higher than it used to be, the game is still very balanced.

 

I am of course, like everybody else, looking forward to things that bring the power of Manaroo or Palpatine down a bit, comparatively. But I don't think they're uncounterable right now.

 

I may not be a top player, the biggest event I've won is a store championship and that was a while ago, but there's my two cents.

Edited by haslo

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As I've said on the S&V Podcast, X-Wing 1.0 has gotten too big for its britches and consequently I think we've reached the spot where we need a second edition to cleanup the cruft.

 

The addition of the Autothrusters Expansion Pack caused the designers to start adding more and more red dice, the addition of more red dice caused the need for more tanky ships, queue x7 title; we've now got 100+ unique game mechanics  that create emergent behavior resulting in game breaking combinations like Dengaroo winning the World Championship. 

 

We detailed the process of fixing it on the last podcast; frankly it isn't that hard. FFG is dragging their feet on the issue, maybe they are worried about killing the golden goose, and are content to keep bandaiding things with tactical FAQ patches. I can't wait for the FAQ to break 50 pages in length :-)

I think one of the things preventing a 2.0 reboot is what to do with all the consumers that have invested a TON of money into the game. If your new, improved version of X-Wing isn't compatible with the previous version there will be a huge backlash. Not thinking models but all the cardboard and cards.

 

I agree there needs to be a X-Wing 2.0 at some point.  Though I hope this version will be good until Movie 9 release.  The game is getting cumbersome with card/upgrade combos and the cost for getting new players in it.  Plus they can re-balance ships/pilots or start with the Clone Wars era.   If they do one then they should also sell the Wave upgrade cards in a separate pack rather packaging them in the ships.  It'll make it easier for new players to get access to the upgrade cards rather than buying into individual ships.

 

That being said.  If they do an X-Wing 2.0 then I'm personally out because of the money invested in it unless they sell separate upgrade packs for pilots/card/etc to update V1.0 to 2.0.  However, if its better for the longevity of the game then FFG is not afraid of doing this.  They've already done this for AGOT LCG 1st edition.

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Note: This comes from a former competitive Magic player.

 

I really enjoy 100/6. I enjoy tinkering with all sort of ships trying to find things to attack the scary "big 4" (Dengar, Palp x7's, Miranda+, Mindlink). I enjoyed fielding 4 FCS B-Wings and gunning down Fat Falcon's. I had a hell of a time playing Xizor with 4 binyare pirates carrying hot shot blasters (didn't lose very often with that list either).

 

I also really enjoy playing epic games when my brother comes to town. Maybe next time he does we'll try Heroes.

 

Having said all that the problem all (somewhat) skill based, low variance games have is what I would call "player creep." Imagine being a world class chess player and sitting down against a series of bar-room irregulars. Would you have much fun playing them? No, because they don't challenge or engage you. It is the same way for really good Magic players. It is absolutely not fun playing against people who have no idea what they're doing. It makes the game feel tedious. I assume it is the same for great X-Wingers. If you're anything like me theme gets you in the door; competition keeps you playing. Now, problems arise when you have to find competition; when your local scene doesn't challenge you anymore. This can also make it difficult to engage new players. Even if you play an un-powered list you'll still beat them, and you still won't have much fun in the actual playing of the game. Neither will they. Boredom is contagious.

 

One key to beating "player creep" is to encourage new players to bring their friends. Fly teams, 1 experienced player and 1 new player. Fly disadvantaged; let the new player field 100 points and his friend field 100 points against you with 100 points. You'll likely lose, but it'll be challenging to battle through twice as many ships and try to out-think two different people. The real key is to get them to bring someone in with them! If they get another person they already like into playing they'll play more, improve faster, and, chances are, become a regular member of your group.

 

The other key to beating "player creep" is playing different formats or versions of the game with your regular group when you aren't preparing for an event. In Magic this meant Cube-drafting or playing Vintage or Legacy. In X-Wing this could mean trying epic or Heroes. It could mean playing different squad list rules like escalation or 150 point no duplicates or something.

 

All games get stale eventually when played for purely competitive purpose. No one wants to lose and no one wants to be constantly assured of victory. Getting better and building community do not have to be at cross purposes. 

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Note: This comes from a former competitive Magic player.

 

I really enjoy 100/6. I enjoy tinkering with all sort of ships trying to find things to attack the scary "big 4" (Dengar, Palp x7's, Miranda+, Mindlink). I enjoyed fielding 4 FCS B-Wings and gunning down Fat Falcon's. I had a hell of a time playing Xizor with 4 binyare pirates carrying hot shot blasters (didn't lose very often with that list either).

 

I also really enjoy playing epic games when my brother comes to town. Maybe next time he does we'll try Heroes.

 

Having said all that the problem all (somewhat) skill based, low variance games have is what I would call "player creep." Imagine being a world class chess player and sitting down against a series of bar-room irregulars. Would you have much fun playing them? No, because they don't challenge or engage you. It is the same way for really good Magic players. It is absolutely not fun playing against people who have no idea what they're doing. It makes the game feel tedious. I assume it is the same for great X-Wingers. If you're anything like me theme gets you in the door; competition keeps you playing. Now, problems arise when you have to find competition; when your local scene doesn't challenge you anymore. This can also make it difficult to engage new players. Even if you play an un-powered list you'll still beat them, and you still won't have much fun in the actual playing of the game. Neither will they. Boredom is contagious.

 

One key to beating "player creep" is to encourage new players to bring their friends. Fly teams, 1 experienced player and 1 new player. Fly disadvantaged; let the new player field 100 points and his friend field 100 points against you with 100 points. You'll likely lose, but it'll be challenging to battle through twice as many ships and try to out-think two different people. The real key is to get them to bring someone in with them! If they get another person they already like into playing they'll play more, improve faster, and, chances are, become a regular member of your group.

 

The other key to beating "player creep" is playing different formats or versions of the game with your regular group when you aren't preparing for an event. In Magic this meant Cube-drafting or playing Vintage or Legacy. In X-Wing this could mean trying epic or Heroes. It could mean playing different squad list rules like escalation or 150 point no duplicates or something.

 

All games get stale eventually when played for purely competitive purpose. No one wants to lose and no one wants to be constantly assured of victory. Getting better and building community do not have to be at cross purposes. 

 

For your example of a chess player, there is such a thing as giving the other player odds of a piece or two.  Interestingly enough, this doesn't just help the weaker player, but can also help the stronger player learn to use strategies they wouldn't have developed otherwise.  (When I was in Chess Club, I played rather strongly, but relied heavily on overusing my rooks.  My mentor started having me play younger, less experienced players, but giving them odds of both rooks so that I'd learn to use my bishops and knights more.)

 

Having a point handicap can help with different skill levels, but sometimes just placing restrictions on what can and can't be used may help, too (e.g. you can use card X or card Y, but not both in the same list; try building a list where no individual ship costs more/less than a certain value; etc.)

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Playing a 2 v 2 with experience and inexperience players being paired up helps depending on the attitude of the experienced and inexperienced player.  They can be helpful and coach thru "mistakes"  regardless if they win or lose.  Also, bringing several type of lists to a store helps (competitive, casual, newcomer).  I've flown challenging lists or "weaker" lists against newcomers to challenge myself and keep things interesting for me against them.  Offering advice to new players in a game is helpful depending on how receptive they are.

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I am new to X-Wing but have played miniature games for close to 20 years.  Is the game perfect? No.  However it is in a lot better shape than the majority of miniature games out there. 

 

My local meta has a insane variety of ships that people are using and I haven't seen something be overly dominant at all yet.

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I'm a relatively new player. I got into the game just by hearing people talk about it, and by following FFG because of their RPG line. I saw videos of people play online, read about the mechanics, got interested in it and started making purchases. I haven't played much, but even with a limited collection I have fun. I'd like to play more seriously some day, but that can wait until I have the practice and spread out to get the upgrades I want and need. Otherwise, I'm just happy with a little U-Wing sitting on my computer (I ran out of room in my first plano box, I'll need another one). 

 

I am pleased and very enthusiastic about X-Wing right now. I am excited for new ships and mechanics, I want to see what FFG does next for this game which I really enjoy. I was fairly well versed in the old EU and try to keep up with most of the new canon - so I'm actually eager to see what they do for new ships and how they make them unique. I love that some of the ships exist in this game (And quite frankly, many of them may be reappearing in films and TV before you know - see Rebels with YT-2400 and Defenders), and people can still recognize classic stuff off the shelf (and who knows, some people may see something like a Punisher and go "what is this TIE bomber with like, four launchers - that's weird and interesting"). I have engaged with many more complex games, some of which have even limited me by their new features and mechanics, so I find X-Wing still very comfortable. 

 

To me, I'm always a little upset, or even offended by this old man "back in my day" "give me 2.0!" crowd. I really like this game how it is. I like variety. I like that thematic options are possible - even if not optimal, and I can also be optimal. There's plenty of variety out there, different moves, different list combos, different strats. I kind of resent the assertion that some guys who maybe have played longer than I have feel like because they're done with the game, the game should be done and move on to some new iteration - the typical internet nerd "I clearly know best because I put money in this, never mind all the deep complexities of making the game I don't see" entitlement. Obviously, some people don't want to play super serious. The game doesn't require it - it has missions and stuff in some of the packs. Other formats exist as made by fans, and I'd hope that if people really enjoy this game of moving plastic spaceships (holy **** guys, man do I love it. I probably boost or barrel roll more than I should just because it's so fun!) they can find entertainment in those formats. Obviously, YMMV, but this is my "meta rant" 2 cents. I'm still deeply enjoying this game and I'm just starting. I still think having talked about it with some of my RPG group friends (who sadly live all over - we game online) it was fairly easy to teach and discuss basics. If your immediately local scene isn't so hot, maybe try and engage some of those new methods, see if people still want to use the tech to play., Y'know, Fly Casual. And, quite frankly, if you don't love X-Wing as much as you used to, maybe skip the sunk cost fallacy that the game needs something to stay enjoyable to you because you've sunk so much money and time into it and just move on if you can't find a way to keep playing it. Don't try and act like the game or other people changing for you is the only answer. The "sky is falling" type stuff always saddens me. I don't necessarily feel it's true, because it doesn't match my knowledge and experience but still, y'know, people don't feel great when they're having fun and they're told that they're wrong or it's going to go bad soon, or something. That's always stuck me as the worst part of the X-Wing community, and the most toxic. Just general discouragement for something I still really have fun with and know other people can, will and do. Because if somebody like, busts out Dengaroo or whatever on a guy who literally only owns enough ships to make a 100/6 list, then you know that guy is just a jerk (or doing it for the laughs), which is an issue of people, not the game. Classic adage "hate the player, don't hate the game". 

Edited by UnitOmega

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And that probably requires players to step past the 100 pt death-match dogfight.

If people aren't having fun playing that way then sure. But there is nothing inherently wrong with the 100 point death match, regardless of what some people here think.

As far as X-Wing 2.0 goes.  If I have to spend more then $50 to update everything I own to be 2.0 compatible, I'm done and I'm willing to bet that the vast majority will feel the same way.  Not that 2.0 is actually the magic bullet that some people seem to think.

Edited by VanorDM

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