Playing grey jedi

[TheShard 1,861]

Anyone have suggestions, builds that match alternative force traditions or grey Jedi?

[Blackbird888 4,110]

It's more of a narrative thing. Just play characters and try to keep morality between 30 and 70 and you're "gray."

[Nytwyng 5,759]

The Order 66 Podcast covered the subject. You might find some nuggets of help here:

 

http://podbay.fm/show/276381727/e/1457282100?autostart=1

[SEApocalypse 4,443]

Anyone have suggestions, builds that match alternative force traditions or grey Jedi?

 

Basically all specs from the FaD series °_^

Plus most specs from AoR and Edge ;-)

[GroggyGolem 2,848]

Really anyone who is "grey" is just someone who does not hold to one extreme of light/dark. A canon example of this would be the Bendu from Star Wars Rebels. He specifically says he's the one in the middle between light and dark.

 

Spec builds would be whatever you like, as there is a multitude of non-jedi & non-sith force traditions you can either pull from in the Legends material or create one of your own. I created an entire tradition of D&D-like, brawling scholarly monks based on the item "The Talisman of Iron Fists" in F&D Core Rulebook, who aren't really light or dark but view the force as just the force.

Edited January 19, 2017 by GroggyGolem

[Benjan Meruna 797]

Anyone have suggestions, builds that match alternative force traditions or grey Jedi?

 

Just don't be afraid to flip those DP and spend Dark Side pips and you're golden.  Er, Gray, sorry.

[Lord Revan 0]

So I see I'm not the only one who says Grey instead of Gray. Usually what I do for my group is if they can keep that even morality for a few session then they can receive the title. I only have one member rocking a Warrior, Shii-Cho Knight with a morality of 50 

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

It's more of a narrative thing. Just play characters and try to keep morality between 30 and 70 and you're "gray."

Luckily, this system doesn't really have the issues that prior Star Wars RPGs had of players wanting to be "gray" as an excuse to use the generally more powerful dark side Force powers but without the established costs (dark side points) of using those powers, with the D6 version having it the worst due to all of the damage-dealing Force effects giving you one (or more) dark side points and a much smaller karma meter than the d20 systems had.

 

With FFG's usage of Conflict instead of dark side points (as well as the PC not being removed from play once they do go dark side), it's actually pretty easy for a PC to be "gray" in terms of the light/dark side spectrum, simply by keeping one's Morality between 30 and 70 as Bb888 noted.  And best way to do that is to not be hesitant to use those dark side pips to generate Force points, even if it does mean dipping into the party's Destiny Pool.  Granted, if your GM is doing their job and paying attention to the pool, there should always be at least one light side Destiny Point for the PCs to spend.

[2P51 33,446]

Don't do it.  Gray Jedi are boring.  Ash colored bowls of unflavored gelatin, soft and unappetizing.  Force users are zealots, committed to the light or the dark.  They're Olympians, Top Gun graduates, Sociopaths.  They're not some milksop wallowing in between kind of sissy pants.

 

The Bendu are dumb.  This whole 'handle a Sith Holocron and there's no consequence' is silly and a bad idea narratively. Why wouldn't the Jedi all just go go gray if they could ignore the effects of the dark and not become dark?  It's the same reason they wrote Tom Bombadil out of LOTRs and changed Faramir's reaction to the ring, because it diminished the evil narrative impact of the one ring to have all these characters laughing the effects off.  Same thing with the Bendu imo.

 

Gray Jedi = poopie.

Edited May 24, 2018 by 2P51

[GroggyGolem 2,848]

I would imagine they wouldn't go grey because their thousands of years of tradition needed to be upheld in their minds, so even if it were possible for them all to learn to actually balance the light and dark within themselves, they wouldn't necessarily do it because they are zealots, extremists, cultists. Their way is the correct way and nobody can say otherwise (that flawed logic applies to both the Jedi & Sith doctrines).

Edited January 19, 2017 by GroggyGolem

[syrath 1,316]

I actually find the idea of playing a grey character interesting, but grey Jedi odoesn't make sense unless you are talking the likes of QuiGon who was most likely a light aide paragon as well as having the descriptor grey. Jedi believed in altruism above self to the point of stupidity, if you look at their actions they caused Anakin's fall as much as good ole Palps did. His attachments kept him in touch with his humanity and it is this humanity that is driven out of the Jedi. So having to play someone who , will still choose to help his friends over the advice of an 900 year old Jedi Master , and to follow his own path in trying to turn his father back, instead of fight them like the rest of the Jedi would, and what Yoda and Obiwan thought would cause the emporer to win. It is the humanity and attachments in both Luke and Anakin that "won" at the end of the original trilogy. It is this kind of grey that I feel drawn to.

[Benjan Meruna 797]

Yeah, the old Legends New Jedi Order would all probably be considered "grey" by OJO standards.  It will be interesting to see how Luke's attempted Academy was structured, and what caused Kylo's rift,  Did Luke repeat old mistakes?  Did he make entirely new ones? Was it the fault of outside factors that couldn't foresee?  Or (most likely) a combination of the three.  Should be (hopefully) interesting.  My only worry is them taking the "No, the OJO was 100% right" view that pops up now and again.

[Rossbert 76]

There is also the question of which flavor of grey are we talking. I will admit bias in that my view is one exists and the other doesn't.

The first is the Qui-Gon style of a generally light sided force user who rejects pieces of the code situationally and is generally considered a valuable if less predictable than you'd like member of the Jedi order.

The second is the Legends-style that considers 'dipping' into the dark side a valuable tool in the Jedi repertoire.

I happen to think the second is what dark siders want Jedi to think is possible because risk of falling goes up dramatically when you believe that.

In this system it matters less since you really have to try to fall.

[syrath 1,316]

There is also the question of which flavor of grey are we talking. I will admit bias in that my view is one exists and the other doesn't.

The first is the Qui-Gon style of a generally light sided force user who rejects pieces of the code situationally and is generally considered a valuable if less predictable than you'd like member of the Jedi order.

The second is the Legends-style that considers 'dipping' into the dark side a valuable tool in the Jedi repertoire.

I happen to think the second is what dark siders want Jedi to think is possible because risk of falling goes up dramatically when you believe that.

In this system it matters less since you really have to try to fall.

I'm finding it relatively easy

Conflict in last game 11 , 1 from owning Baleful Gaze, 6 from using aforementioned Baleful Gaze 3 times and the rest from using 4 dark side points.

[Benjan Meruna 797]

 

There is also the question of which flavor of grey are we talking. I will admit bias in that my view is one exists and the other doesn't.

The first is the Qui-Gon style of a generally light sided force user who rejects pieces of the code situationally and is generally considered a valuable if less predictable than you'd like member of the Jedi order.

The second is the Legends-style that considers 'dipping' into the dark side a valuable tool in the Jedi repertoire.

I happen to think the second is what dark siders want Jedi to think is possible because risk of falling goes up dramatically when you believe that.

In this system it matters less since you really have to try to fall.

I'm finding it relatively easy

Conflict in last game 11 , 1 from owning Baleful Gaze, 6 from using aforementioned Baleful Gaze 3 times and the rest from using 4 dark side points.

 

 

How much Conflict did you get after your 1d10 roll?  Or was that already after the roll?

Edited January 19, 2017 by Benjan Meruna

[syrath 1,316]

Lost 6

[syrath 1,316]

For those that find it easy to stay light side if you are GM what is the range of conflict for lying and if you are a player ask your GM how much conflict they would give for lying.

[SEApocalypse 4,443]

Don't do it.  Gray Jedi are boring.  Ash colored bowls of unflavored gelatin, soft and unappetizing.  Force users are zealots, committed to the light or the dark.  They're Olympians, Top Gun graduates, Sociopaths.  They're not some milksop wallowing in between kind of sissy pants.

 

The Bendu are dumb.  This whole 'handle a Sith Holocron and there's no consequence' is silly and a bad idea narratively. Why wouldn't the Jedi all just go go gray if they could ignore the effects of the dark and not become dark?  It's the same reason they wrote Tom Bombadil out of LOTRs and changed Faramir's reaction to the ring, because it diminished the evil narrative impact of the one ring to have all these characters laughing the effects off.  Same thing with the Bendu imo.

 

ph0 Jedi = poopie.

God, I hate you right now.

I can ignore the Star Wars heresy, but not the LOTR sacrilege.

And I would still hate you when you would not be totally wrong about the narrative effects too °_^

The evil of the ring is not lessened, but the lack of desire to rule anything is highlighted with Tom Bombadil and Faramir's ability for good in similar way, which builds up contract to how afraid Gandalf was to the temptation of the ring, how Saruman the Wise did fall and how we get glimpses of how the ring would affect Galadriel.

The same can be said about the Bendu, he does not seek power, he does not need power, he is in balance. No need to fear the dark side if it never can control you. The jedi order to the prequels at the other hand based their whole being around fear of the darkside, no wonder they fall so easy from light to dark and back again. Zealots they are, evil and rotten to the core, sith and jedi alike. What's wrong with actual enlightenment instead of dogma? ;-)

[2P51 33,446]

 

Don't do it.  Gray Jedi are boring.  Ash colored bowls of unflavored gelatin, soft and unappetizing.  Force users are zealots, committed to the light or the dark.  They're Olympians, Top Gun graduates, Sociopaths.  They're not some milksop wallowing in between kind of sissy pants.

 

The Bendu are dumb.  This whole 'handle a Sith Holocron and there's no consequence' is silly and a bad idea narratively. Why wouldn't the Jedi all just go go gray if they could ignore the effects of the dark and not become dark?  It's the same reason they wrote Tom Bombadil out of LOTRs and changed Faramir's reaction to the ring, because it diminished the evil narrative impact of the one ring to have all these characters laughing the effects off.  Same thing with the Bendu imo.

 

ph0 Jedi = poopie.

God, I hate you right now.

I can ignore the Star Wars heresy, but not the LOTR sacrilege.

And I would still hate you when you would not be totally wrong about the narrative effects too °_^

The evil of the ring is not lessened, but the lack of desire to rule anything is highlighted with Tom Bombadil and Faramir's ability for good in similar way, which builds up contract to how afraid Gandalf was to the temptation of the ring, how Saruman the Wise did fall and how we get glimpses of how the ring would affect Galadriel.

The same can be said about the Bendu, he does not seek power, he does not need power, he is in balance. No need to fear the dark side if it never can control you. The jedi order to the prequels at the other hand based their whole being around fear of the darkside, no wonder they fall so easy from light to dark and back again. Zealots they are, evil and rotten to the core, sith and jedi alike. What's wrong with actual enlightenment instead of dogma? ;-)

 

What you're talking about is what reads good in a book and what looks good in a movie.  What you read about Faramir in the book has to be shown in the movie, that's what I'm talking about, so they had to change it.

 

Showing that there is something that can ignore the consequences of the dark side, and really by default the light side as well, means there is no reason to go dark or light if you can just sit in the middle and not worry about satisfying either. 

 

The story at its basic core is good v evil, and when you introduce a story element where it doesn't actually matter, you diminish the struggle between the two and essentially gut the core conflict in the story.  It's a crap narrative and lousy writing.

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

If you really want to play a Grey Force User (I wont bend to referring to any of these as Jedi) then start your Morality at 29. Initially try to get it up above 30 and keep it there, but never pass into the 70+ range. this way your always a Dark Side user, but resisting the return to true evil. Fighting back from the inside, making a much more interesting story than some fop wannabe Jedi.

[GroggyGolem 2,848]

 

 

Don't do it.  Gray Jedi are boring.  Ash colored bowls of unflavored gelatin, soft and unappetizing.  Force users are zealots, committed to the light or the dark.  They're Olympians, Top Gun graduates, Sociopaths.  They're not some milksop wallowing in between kind of sissy pants.

 

The Bendu are dumb.  This whole 'handle a Sith Holocron and there's no consequence' is silly and a bad idea narratively. Why wouldn't the Jedi all just go go gray if they could ignore the effects of the dark and not become dark?  It's the same reason they wrote Tom Bombadil out of LOTRs and changed Faramir's reaction to the ring, because it diminished the evil narrative impact of the one ring to have all these characters laughing the effects off.  Same thing with the Bendu imo.

 

ph0 Jedi = poopie.

God, I hate you right now.

I can ignore the Star Wars heresy, but not the LOTR sacrilege.

And I would still hate you when you would not be totally wrong about the narrative effects too °_^

The evil of the ring is not lessened, but the lack of desire to rule anything is highlighted with Tom Bombadil and Faramir's ability for good in similar way, which builds up contract to how afraid Gandalf was to the temptation of the ring, how Saruman the Wise did fall and how we get glimpses of how the ring would affect Galadriel.

The same can be said about the Bendu, he does not seek power, he does not need power, he is in balance. No need to fear the dark side if it never can control you. The jedi order to the prequels at the other hand based their whole being around fear of the darkside, no wonder they fall so easy from light to dark and back again. Zealots they are, evil and rotten to the core, sith and jedi alike. What's wrong with actual enlightenment instead of dogma? ;-)

 

What you're talking about is what reads good in a book and what looks good in a movie.  What you read about Faramir in the book has to be shown in the movie, that's what I'm talking about, so they had to change it.

 

1. Showing that there is something that can ignore the consequences of the dark side, and really by default the light side as well, means there is no reason to go dark or light if you can just sit in the middle and not worry about satisfying either. 

 

2. The story at its basic core is good v evil, and when you introduce a story element where it doesn't actually matter, you diminish the struggle between the two and essentially gut the core conflict in the story.  It's a crap narrative and lousy writing.

 

1. I wouldn't necessarily call it "sitting in the middle", more that a character is seeking enlightenment or balance between their good and evil nature, between their selfishness and selflessness. If someone was dogmatically selfless, they would run themself ragged trying to do everything for others all the time. On the other hand, someone who is dogmatically selfish often has poor relationships & does not often experience an enjoyable life. A similar thing happens with in real life and there are a lot of things one might have to constantly strive for balance with. Things such as a work/life balance where too much of one thing doesn't work out for the better. It takes activity to balance things out and is a constant struggle to balance things, so it's not very likely that a force user can become balanced by doing nothing.

 

2. Good V Evil will always matter in the stories of Star Wars. A force using character finding a balance within themself is not negating the struggle of good vs evil because it isn't affecting the overarching narrative; it affects that character on a personal level. Luke Skywalker would definitely be considered imbalanced in the OT up to the point that he casts his lightsaber aside and declares that he is a Jedi. From that point on, he isn't permanently balanced in himself, he would still have to work at it. Is he still a good aligned character? Yes. Does he still use his emotions as a Jedi, contradictory to the Jedi way? Yes. Does he reject all emotion or on the flip side, let his emotion consume him? No, as that would be imbalance.

Edited January 19, 2017 by GroggyGolem

[SEApocalypse 4,443]

The struggle for balance on personal level is far more interesting than the struggle between two dogmatic zealot factions. ANH is the weakest of the trilogy and ESB the best for a reason.

And Return of the King was btw a crap movie, while Tom Bombadils cut was at least acceptable because he is a sidestory and the Fellowship of the Ring was long enough as it was.

[GroggyGolem 2,848]

Tom Bombadil was the most out of place, useless part of the Fellowship book. Like 50 pages dedicated to the time they spent with that dude and it was more boring than Bilbo's stinking party.

[HappyDaze 10,108]

Being gray has little to do with where your morality falls. In fact, if you're playing grey just do what you want to do without worrying about the Conflict (but do track it for mechanical purposes). You're beyond that crap (except that mechanically, you're not).

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

Tom Bombadil was the most out of place, useless part of the Fellowship book. Like 50 pages dedicated to the time they spent with that dude and it was more boring than Bilbo's stinking party.

 

I read the Fellowship of the Ring to my 6-year-old, and Bombadil was his favorite part. He even came up with the idea to give Tom the Ring, before the idea was floated in the book at Elrond's council

 

But Bombadil is like an awesome NPC. Total sideways energy in the long run, but good laughs and great world-building. It grabs you and immerses you. At least, it did for me. Tolkien's writing is full of stuff like that, immersive "asides."  

 

But, AHEM to the topic at hand, it really depends on what you mean by "Gray." Star Wars is a story of good vs. evil. And if you strive to stay in between those, then you are still treated as a "good guy" by the game mechanics, which excellently reflect how this stuff works in Star Wars.

 

I really did enjoy GroggyGolem's Richardbuxton's* idea about starting as a "Dark Side" character and then playing a good guy. That's actually quite clever.

 

*thanks for the correct

Edited January 20, 2017 by awayputurwpn