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How do you deal with Asaji Fennaroo?

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37 minutes ago, IG88E said:

Are there some videos with players flying the paratanni list?

Just search YouTube for Parattanni, there is plenty. Try to use different variation of the name: Paratanni, Parattani, Paratani etc. Those double T and double N are confusing, but comes from original name of the ability list is build around: "Attanni Mindlink" and there are double T and double N in it.

Sometimes Youtubers don't mark video with lists nicknames, then try to search text "Asajj Fenn Manaroo" - it can be listed below the video, and its only list with this combination of pilots I beleive.

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Speaking of VI Carnor, that was something I ran last store championships season to good effect (5 top 4 finishes in a row) and earlier in the week I drafted a newer version of that list to play with some of the new toys about to release:

 

Starkiller Base Pilot (38)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (30), Collision Detector (0), Emperor Palpatine (8)

Carnor Jax (33)
TIE Interceptor (26), Veteran Instincts (1), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Shield Upgrade (4)

“Duchess” (29)
TIE Striker (23), Expertise (4), Adaptive Ailerons (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

 

The shuttle can co-ordinate to help get around the lack of PTL on Carnor (just sad I couldn't quite squeeze in patter analyser to make it possible even on red moves), and has a big gun of its own, plush more health over the old Lambda. And Duchess is awesome against almost anything that isn't a turret.

Wondering if this might have some legs in the current environment.

 

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As for the discussion about Carnor Jax, I've played him in some form since he came out, and this is the first meta where I've just shelved him (since Worlds).   There's just too many high powered, high PS guns that have no problem breaking through his defenses.  The emergence of a couple of lists in our meta (Dengar Bossk) and now a lot Miranda being played with both missiles and bombs make either version of him go poof pretty quickly.   A friend of mine still plays his list with Palp/Defender/Carnor, but I'm a little tired of the Emperor.    I'm well aware of Paratanni and have played it (on Vassal) but it hasn't been played consistently in our meta as of yet.

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This list does raise some concerns for me going into the System Open series as it seems strong, popular and i suspect will be used by players of varied skill. 

My normal go to is:

Bossk: VI, K4 Security, Zuckuss, Boba Fett, Homing Missile and Guidance Chips (will add Scavanger Crane was legal)

Ketsu: VI, Title, Dengar, Glitterstim and Countermeasures
96 points (Will be 98 eventually)

Now this murders defenders and ace dependent lists, handles Dengar / Manaroo quite well and Manaroo / Fenn / Teroch. 

Now if I was to face Paratanni, I would give initiative to my opponent and put all the three of my rocks in the corners (two my side and then one in some else ideally) to give myself an open playing field. Aim would be to remove whatever presents itself first. 

I fly Ketsu quite aggressive, I want her to tank the earlier hits so if Manaroo goes for a block, it will most likely just block Ketsu. If we don't bump, then I can i put nine damage into Manaroo in a single volley (Reduce agility via ability, four red, focus and re-rolled from Ketsu, reduce agility again, homing missile from Bossk plus ability). After that, I would assume Ketsu to be stressed from either Glitter use depending on the situation or maybe Asajj ability. 

if Fenn flies forward and gets caught, I imagine the same thing happening, if its Asajj, well I best hope for a crit from Bossk plus the Guidence Crit if I am to one shot her. 

After that, I have no idea what to do. I could lose Ketsu if I don't kill my first target (unlikely though, I mean Glitter + Evade token + Three agility) and Bossk will die if Fenn gets behind him. I have no means to stress a mindlink list nor any action denial, its just a huge punch in the nads. I am also worried about what happens in the event that Manaroo DOES block Ketsu. I would need to split fire and that is not ideal. 

Any advice?

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11 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

This list does raise some concerns for me going into the System Open series as it seems strong, popular and i suspect will be used by players of varied skill. 

My normal go to is:

Bossk: VI, K4 Security, Zuckuss, Boba Fett, Homing Missile and Guidance Chips (will add Scavanger Crane was legal)

Ketsu: VI, Title, Dengar, Glitterstim and Countermeasures
96 points (Will be 98 eventually)


Any advice?

Well I haven't found a magic bullet or pulled out a win against it yet.  I have however been trying with different lists and the strategy that has worked best for me is to gun for Manaroo if you can, Fenn if you cant.   Manaroo is top priority.  That strategy has usually ended with the game being called on time and 1 of my ships left on the board... and asaj with more than half health and win on points.  Other strategies have been outright loses.  I am sure some people have pulled wins out against this list but the only one I know of personally was at the MI regional.  I am curious as to what it has lost to and why.

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26 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

This list does raise some concerns for me going into the System Open series as it seems strong, popular and i suspect will be used by players of varied skill. 

My normal go to is:

Bossk: VI, K4 Security, Zuckuss, Boba Fett, Homing Missile and Guidance Chips (will add Scavanger Crane was legal)

Ketsu: VI, Title, Dengar, Glitterstim and Countermeasures
96 points (Will be 98 eventually)

Now this murders defenders and ace dependent lists, handles Dengar / Manaroo quite well and Manaroo / Fenn / Teroch. 

Now if I was to face Paratanni, I would give initiative to my opponent and put all the three of my rocks in the corners (two my side and then one in some else ideally) to give myself an open playing field. Aim would be to remove whatever presents itself first. 

I fly Ketsu quite aggressive, I want her to tank the earlier hits so if Manaroo goes for a block, it will most likely just block Ketsu. If we don't bump, then I can i put nine damage into Manaroo in a single volley (Reduce agility via ability, four red, focus and re-rolled from Ketsu, reduce agility again, homing missile from Bossk plus ability). After that, I would assume Ketsu to be stressed from either Glitter use depending on the situation or maybe Asajj ability. 

if Fenn flies forward and gets caught, I imagine the same thing happening, if its Asajj, well I best hope for a crit from Bossk plus the Guidence Crit if I am to one shot her. 

After that, I have no idea what to do. I could lose Ketsu if I don't kill my first target (unlikely though, I mean Glitter + Evade token + Three agility) and Bossk will die if Fenn gets behind him. I have no means to stress a mindlink list nor any action denial, its just a huge punch in the nads. I am also worried about what happens in the event that Manaroo DOES block Ketsu. I would need to split fire and that is not ideal. 

Any advice?

I, unfortunately, don't have good advice for you but I like the list overall.  I am curious as to the use of Boba and if you feel like Bossks ability kind of runs counter to having him on the ship.

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I think for a lot of lists the critical thing will be blocking.  Block Fenn, he can't arcdodge and you maybe able to trap him at r2.  Block Assaj and she may not be able to use her ability.  That was how I addressed it in my own games against it.  But you do have to have the correct PSes to get those blocks.

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2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I think for a lot of lists the critical thing will be blocking.  Block Fenn, he can't arcdodge and you maybe able to trap him at r2.  Block Assaj and she may not be able to use her ability.  That was how I addressed it in my own games against it.  But you do have to have the correct PSes to get those blocks.


It's important to make that block at R2 of your other ship, though (or R1 out of his arc).  And Fenn will still get two Focus so it's not as helpful as blocking Soontir would be.

When you pick up Paratanni one of the key learning curves is that if it's not definitely a good situation for Fenn you keep him out of it, don't take risks that would lead to stuff like this.

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Just now, AlexW said:

I, unfortunately, don't have good advice for you but I like the list overall.  I am curious as to the use of Boba and if you feel like Bossks ability kind of runs counter to having him on the ship.

Having Boba on the list as opposed to 4-LOM does two things:

1. It is Boba Fett. It's THE man and having him there inspires me and my dice into doing what's best for business. Plus its a conversation piece. 

2. For the Dash / Ghost / Denger of the world. I can't one shot them. I can only put out nine damage in a single turn and that isn't enough for them. So what I do instead is use Boba to remove a title (Punishing One for example) or a weapon (Dash Heavy Laser) or Crew (Hera if they are heavily stressed). I don't use it every match, but in competitive play where you are expected to play between five to nine matches, it pays off eventually and is funny as hell. 

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Yeah, Boba on Bossk is nice, because when they have shields you still get your Direct Hits from his ability, when they are out of shields, you can choose between effectively a guaranteed direct hit, or a crit and the removal of a key component.

In Parattani, stripping a Mindlink off someone is nice, but I'd say the most critical component is probably Latts.  Take her away and your job of killing Assaj becomes a lot easier.

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4 minutes ago, herry92 said:

What do you think about this version of Parattani? I see make great things

fenn+ at+ title + midlink

old teroch +at + title + midlink

ventress + midlink

100 p.ti

 

Oliver Pocknell form 186th Squadron plays this list. He made a cut 2 weeks ago during Tricity Regio and won major local UK tournament this weekend. 

Viable option,  but hardly better than Parattanni. 

Edited by Oldpara

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So I had my 2nd game against this list last night. Lost again even though I was using a much better list than my first game.

I went for Fenn first as I had a strong chance of killing him in one round of fire. Unfortunately that didn't happen and it took most of my shots the following round to finish him off. Shots that could have made the game much closer if used on a different target.

In the end I had killed Fenn, had manaroo down to 1 hull (grrr), and shields gone on asajj.

Afterwards I had a lengthy discussion about tactics with Theorist. In addition to tweaking my list a bit, we came to the conclusion that if you have a very hard hitting list (like mine) you should go against conventional wisdom and try to kill asajj first.  

Looking back on my game. If I had done that I would have at least heavily damaged her and forced her to flee. Then Fenn is hanging out to dry 

I'll have to try this tactic the next time I face this list and see if I can get better results.

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Got my 2nd crack at it tonight with my revised squad and strategy.  Although this one was a slight variation with boba (with LRS) instead of asajj.

Although my results were better I still lost.  I killed manaroo and boba, but fenn still had 3 hull (should be full health but purposely went through a rock and took damage).

Game started out great with the damage to fenn from the rock and my opening engagement saw me give 8 damage to boba including a damaged engine crit.  And in return I only took 4 damage total from his 3 shots.  After that boba ran away so he was mostly out of the fight for a few rounds.  However I couldn't keep the advantage as we kept trading range 1 shots between all our ships and he was doing damage much quicker than me.

I'm starting to think unless everything goes my way or my opponent really messes up I should just assume any matchup against an attani list with my squad will be an auto loss.

Makes me worried for my vassal league games that are starting up.

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8 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

How does a Rebel list with BTL Stressbot fare against this list?

One thing I learned at a recent Regional flying Parattani is not to feel crippled by the stress. All three ships have enough greens to get at least Focus factory the crew. This is after facing an Assajj mirror, an Upsilon with the title, and a Braylen Stressmule.

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Stress helps, but I feel Attanni-lists of all kinds suffer less from stress than most lists.

What I discovered flying defenders against Parattanni:

- Triple defenders are better than Commonwealth defenders

- Swarm Leader on Vessery gives you a significant edge over Juke when fighting Attannis. You can actually put serious damage on Fenn and Ventress, instead of hoping to do 1 damage per attack.

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You definitely have to target on opportunity , try to keep assaj @ range 3 & out of stress arc.  I play lists that roll a decent amount of dice which makes one shotting fenn Rau a real possibility, its a real piolting game to get good shots on Fenn though.   Try to use his speed against him to get out of arc shots on him at range 1.    Make Asaj navigate rocks to come at you, try to make her use her action switching mobile firing arc so she cannot just evade.    If they leave a target wide open punish it.  Fenn is the most Arc limit & the best alpha striker of the bunch, he doesnt have full Ace PTL action in this matchup so use that to your advantage   Don't over-commit to chasing a specific target, parattani played right is great at pouncing on someone taking aa dive at a specific target, especially Asaajj or Manroo.

Remember it is a better list than most, it's not crazy impossible to beat but it's probably better than your list so...  meeting it head on in open space is not good.  Lastly, play the list with proxies or whatever you can use.   It's popular & you are likely to encounter it,  knowing where its weak inuitively will help beat it.    Scenario's where its not to a great advantage who gets extra token, when Asajj hasnt stressed someone or got an evade.   If manroo bumps then you have to short anothers action to get focus.   If you take stress on manroo's move or via a crit it cascades.   Lasty it's 2 large base & a small base ship. Let them come throuh asteroids to fight!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Zorprime

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So I've played against this list, once, in the Mississippi regional, and the player made top 8. I was flying the VI RAC with Vader and Mareek Stele. The player basically ran with Fenn to try and stay away from the decimator. Fenn never got to attack in the game. While I was chasing Fenn with RAC I brought Stele around the flank and attacked Manaroo as his whole squad went after RAC. The turns where Fenn wasn't in range RAC also attacked Manaroo. I used Vader twice on Fenn and the round the decimator died Manaroo also died from Stele. After that I didn't feel Asajj was a threat and Stele just wore her down as she had a hard time pushing damage through on that x7 defender with only one action. 

Edited by darkevans

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1 minute ago, darkevans said:

So I've played against this list, once, in the Mississippi regional, and the player made top 8. I was flying the VI RAC with Vader and Mareek Stele. The player basically ran with Fenn to try and stay away from the decimator. Fenn never got to attack in the game. While I was chasing Fenn with RAC I brought Stele around the flank and attacked Manaroo as his whole squad went after RAC. The turns where Fenn wasn't in range RAC also attacked Manaroo. I used Vader twice on Fenn and the round the decimator died Manaroo also died from Stele. After that I didn't feel Asajj was a threat and Stele just wore her down as she had a hard time pushing damage through on that x7 defender with only one action. 

Vader makes them think, but they've just got to hurl Fenn in close to RAC and try to pummel the Deci down, or bump it with Fenn.  I think he got it wrong, there.

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3 minutes ago, darkevans said:

So I've played against this list, once, in the Mississippi regional, and the player made top 8. I was flying the VI RAC with Vader and Mareek Stele. The player basically ran with Fenn to try and stay away from the decimator. Fenn never got to attack in the game. While I was chasing Fenn with RAC I brought Stele around the flank and attacked Manaroo as his whole squad went after RAC. The turns where Fenn wasn't in range RAC also attacked Manaroo. I used Vader twice on Fenn and the round the decimator died Manaroo also died from Stele. After that I didn't feel Asajj was a threat and Stele just wore her down as she had a hard time pushing damage through on that x7 defender with only one action. 

I'm surprised you were able to wear Assaj down with a Defender - she shoudl be functionally getting focus/evade every round, because you should always be in her mobile arc, so your expected damage against her should be more or less 0, ditto hers against you.  It shoudl be a wash to time, on average, with a single defender vs assaj.

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