4fox100 609 Posted January 22, 2017 When one list shows up and is able to have multiple token stacked ships whie your pitiful list has a single action per ship (like how the game was designed) it is an NPE. You've just essentially described almost every competitively successful squad for several waves. There are a few exceptions but almost everything that does well consistently does it through stacking modifiers. Yeah I know. Don't you think that's really ****? I do. All this potential diversity and thrilling manuevering only it doesn't mean **** unless you're also playing Push The Limit and stacking loads of modifiers because THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO THE GAME AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS WINDOW DRESSING. i prefer more movement options. PTL means nothing if you can't shoot me. Sure you can sit there with focus, evades, and TLs, but unless i am in arc you can't kill me. Combine that with a good blocker and PTL means nothing.(Also Party Bus) 1 AceWing reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AceWing 428 Posted January 22, 2017 Yeah I know. Don't you think that's really ****? I do. All this potential diversity and thrilling manuevering only it doesn't mean **** unless you're also playing Push The Limit and stacking loads of modifiers because THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO THE GAME AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS WINDOW DRESSING. Everyone can play PTL. Everyone being able to heavily modify their dice is a good thing because games aren't determined by dice variance but by something else, notably flying. 6 Timathius, player44455, Hoffburger and 3 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlodVargarna 4,041 Posted January 22, 2017 PTL =/= paratanni shenanigans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zefirus 435 Posted January 23, 2017 Funnily enough, part of this list (Asajj) actually makes reliance on PTL a liability. Source: My Poe dying because he gets double stressed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acidReign 79 Posted January 23, 2017 People think of Fenn as the greatest threat, but the backbone of the list is Asajj and Manaroo. If I can trade Fenn for an equivalent 32 points of my opponent's stuff, then I'm almost always going to win. Case in point, one game vs Dengaroo I lost Fenn doing 0 damage in return, but Asajj and Manaroo won anyway. I don't even think I got to half on either ship. Could you please mention your strategy against dengaroo? Do you go for dengar first? Im thinking if it is dengar first, you block the white sloop with manaroo and then try to range 1 with asajj and fenn? Or, do you blow past dengar and go stressing manaroo with asajj and smashing her with fenn if he can make it past dengar? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vineheart01 6,401 Posted January 23, 2017 i swear people in this game are oppose to challenging lists and claim NPE at anything that isnt faceroll easy to deal with..... 5 catachanninja, Oldpara, AceWing and 2 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonza 199 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) People think of Fenn as the greatest threat, but the backbone of the list is Asajj and Manaroo. If I can trade Fenn for an equivalent 32 points of my opponent's stuff, then I'm almost always going to win. Case in point, one game vs Dengaroo I lost Fenn doing 0 damage in return, but Asajj and Manaroo won anyway. I don't even think I got to half on either ship. Could you please mention your strategy against dengaroo? Do you go for dengar first? Im thinking if it is dengar first, you block the white sloop with manaroo and then try to range 1 with asajj and fenn? Or, do you blow past dengar and go stressing manaroo with asajj and smashing her with fenn if he can make it past dengar? I have found the latter option to be effective. I try to bump Fen into Dengar to prevent any damage, and Dengar has a difficult time hitting Asaaj. Once you fly past him, Manaroo will go down pretty quickly, as Asaaj stops her from using PTL to focus/boost away. All you have to watch out for then is that Dengar doesn't get a torpedo into Fen, as Zuckuss could cause you to die in one hit. Edited January 23, 2017 by Bonza 1 Oldpara reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigeltastic 3,808 Posted January 23, 2017 Latts is way too good over Dengar I consistently disagree with this point. Latts Ventress is very tanky but loses not only a significant amount of punch (she hits like a soggy tissue) but also loses the nice feature of stress control. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vineheart01 6,401 Posted January 23, 2017 Latts isnt mandatory by any means. Ive used Rage + Inspiring Recruit on Asajj to amazing results (granted i may have used Bossk as bait...but whatever) still find it funny how so many people were claiming Latts is utterly useless since she clears stress on the enemy ship and now shes glued to the lancer in almost every list. Heck my first game with her she basically gave me 60% of my health back lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scumbuck 31 Posted January 24, 2017 Latts is way too good over Dengar I consistently disagree with this point. Latts Ventress is very tanky but loses not only a significant amount of punch (she hits like a soggy tissue) but also loses the nice feature of stress control. She only hits poorly if you don't use your other action to give you dice modification - like a target lock. In a mindlink list, as long as someone else is focussing, she can do that freely. And you don't need to remove the opponent's stress - it just gives you the option to. I find it very hard to pass up that ability to tank damage. 1 TitaniumChopstick reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigeltastic 3,808 Posted January 24, 2017 She only hits poorly if you don't use your other action to give you dice modification - like a target lock. In a mindlink list, as long as someone else is focussing, she can do that freely. And you don't need to remove the opponent's stress - it just gives you the option to. I find it very hard to pass up that ability to tank damage. Doesn't that mean that she would get similar utility out of dengar + taking the evade action? I'm not trying to say latts is bad of course, she's clearly very popular, but I'm mostly just very surprised that latts is seen consistently as the 'best' choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumChopstick 701 Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) She only hits poorly if you don't use your other action to give you dice modification - like a target lock. In a mindlink list, as long as someone else is focussing, she can do that freely. And you don't need to remove the opponent's stress - it just gives you the option to. I find it very hard to pass up that ability to tank damage.Doesn't that mean that she would get similar utility out of dengar + taking the evade action?I'm not trying to say latts is bad of course, she's clearly very popular, but I'm mostly just very surprised that latts is seen consistently as the 'best' choice. Considering Dengar is a point more than Lattz and Lattz still lets you take an aditional evade action after a turn where you didn't spend a target lock, I think Lattz is definitely better. factor in that your opponent might be flying multiple ships that self-stress, and this can equate to multiple extra evades per round, possibly even with a lock from last round and the evade action you took this round. Starting to see the whole picture yet? If nothing else though, that 1 point extra you have to pay is too much to fit Dengar into Parattanni so that's why you always see Lattz. Edited January 24, 2017 by TitaniumChopstick 1 WWHSD reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThalanirIII 377 Posted January 24, 2017 Have I missed something here? Who decides whether a list is objectively an NPE? I can put my hand up and say I love playing against Paratanni because it gives me a challenge. I enjoy flying vs Dengaroo and I miss the triple Scouts because I couldn't figure out how to beat them but finally figured how to do it. I flew none of those by the way, but enjoy flying against them. Stay On The Leader: I like your blog, but I think you're missing the point that people play X wing for different reasons, and none of those are worse than another. Everyone: Any list can be an NPE if people are playing for different aims. I.E. if I take my tournament practice list and someone decides to fly some silly janky list which is boring and easy to beat, is that an NPE? is my list an NPE for winning easily? If you want to play for the same reasons then no list you pick will be an NPE because you're aiming to do something whether that's tournament prep or Death Star thematic lists. 1 Oldpara reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jike 630 Posted January 24, 2017 It's a list with amazing synergy but it requires good flying to get its full effect and actually put any damage on the opponent. I'm struggling to see how it's a NPE, unless NPE is now code for "it's difficult to beat". Compared to boosting large-base PWT ships or pre-nerf Phantoms or Dengaroo I don't really see what the problem is. 1 Oldpara reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oldpara 1,264 Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) The problem might be that Parattanni is so well rounded, powerful and fun to play that you start to see it little too often on the tables around. Isn't sometimes already like 10% of all lists on the the tournament? And it took 2 more Regionals this weekend (Dublin and Pato) becoming most winning list this season (7 or 8), so I suspect list being more and more popular in future. Edited January 24, 2017 by Oldpara Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightrock 829 Posted January 24, 2017 She only hits poorly if you don't use your other action to give you dice modification - like a target lock. In a mindlink list, as long as someone else is focussing, she can do that freely. And you don't need to remove the opponent's stress - it just gives you the option to. I find it very hard to pass up that ability to tank damage.Doesn't that mean that she would get similar utility out of dengar + taking the evade action?I'm not trying to say latts is bad of course, she's clearly very popular, but I'm mostly just very surprised that latts is seen consistently as the 'best' choice. Considering Dengar is a point more than Lattz and Lattz still lets you take an aditional evade action after a turn where you didn't spend a target lock, I think Lattz is definitely better. factor in that your opponent might be flying multiple ships that self-stress, and this can equate to multiple extra evades per round, possibly even with a lock from last round and the evade action you took this round. Starting to see the whole picture yet? If nothing else though, that 1 point extra you have to pay is too much to fit Dengar into Parattanni so that's why you always see Lattz. The possibility of a Dengaroo match up alone makes Latts clearly superior. Also, you're gonna need to spend your actions to switch your mobile arc on a regular basis. You can't evade when you do that, but Latts works just fine. She also works fine if you're blocked etc. Essentially Latts is what makes Assajj so **** hard to kill. 1 TitaniumChopstick reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starvald Demelain 9 Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) The problem might be that Parattanni is so well rounded, powerful and fun to play that you start to see it little too often on the tables around. Isn't sometimes already like 10% of all lists on the the tournament? And it took 2 more Regionals this weekend (Dublin and Pato) becoming most winning list this season (7 or 8), so I suspect list being more and more popular in future. Do not worry. X-wing has a build-in self-regulation mechanism. Next week 3 new ships will arrive and the meta will change. Secondly, if one list is too common then a moment later counter-lists gain on popularity as well. I expect to see more RAC + Ryad lists and 98-99 p. lists with Fenn Rau Edited January 24, 2017 by Starvald Demelain 4 Antipodean Ork, BlodVargarna, Q10fanatic and 1 other reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cr0aker 1,056 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) The post holiday schedule has settled down and I have been on Vassal a bit more lately. I am curious to see if people are finding lists they can reliably beat this list with? My experience so far has been to try a variety of different lists and strategies. Much to my chagrin, I have not been able to pull out a win yet with a variety of lists. Most of the OMGWTFBBQNERF lists I can beat with the right combo of list and luck. So far no dice with paratanni. Edited January 30, 2017 by Cr0aker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WWHSD 9,273 Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/23/2017 at 6:30 PM, TitaniumChopstick said: Considering Dengar is a point more than Lattz and Lattz still lets you take an aditional evade action after a turn where you didn't spend a target lock, I think Lattz is definitely better. factor in that your opponent might be flying multiple ships that self-stress, and this can equate to multiple extra evades per round, possibly even with a lock from last round and the evade action you took this round. Starting to see the whole picture yet? If nothing else though, that 1 point extra you have to pay is too much to fit Dengar into Parattanni so that's why you always see Lattz. It's not unusual for Latts to stop more than 5 points of damage in a single game for me. It's rare for her to stop less than 2 (assuming that Ventress is getting shot at much at all). Ventress brings some beef and control to the list, if you are looking to bring more damage I think you'd be better off with a different ship (and maybe some ordnance on Manaroo). 1 TitaniumChopstick reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lester 38 Posted January 30, 2017 Didn't someone just go undefeated with Parattani at System Open Texas ? 2 Chumbalaya and catachanninja reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WWHSD 9,273 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) On 1/24/2017 at 3:54 AM, Oldpara said: The problem might be that Parattanni is so well rounded, powerful and fun to play that you start to see it little too often on the tables around. Isn't sometimes already like 10% of all lists on the the tournament? And it took 2 more Regionals this weekend (Dublin and Pato) becoming most winning list this season (7 or 8), so I suspect list being more and more popular in future. I really think the that's the reason that it is becoming popular. It's not that there's anything outright broken about what it does, it's just that there aren't really any horrible match-ups for the squad. Some match-ups are obviously going to be tougher than others but there isn't really anything out there that leaves you with the "even if I outfly them, I've still got a good chance to lose" feeling like there are with other strong squads. Once you get the basics of how not to screw yourself too badly with Mindlink, it's a forgiving enough squad that if you make an error in during a long day of playing you probably have completely thrown a game away. Edited January 30, 2017 by WWHSD 2 Oldpara and TitaniumChopstick reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Q10fanatic 325 Posted January 30, 2017 Palob or Old Teroch with an initiative bid may do well. You can deny those focus actions... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexW 2,900 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, WWHSD said: It's not that there's anything outright broken about what it does, it's just that there aren't really any horrible match-ups for the squad. Some match-ups are obviously going to be tougher than others but there isn't really anything out there that leaves you with the "even if I outfly them, I've still got a good chance to lose" feeling like there are with other strong squads. Once you get the basics of how not to screw yourself too badly with Mindlink, it's a forgiving enough squad that if you make an error in during a long day of playing you probably have completely thrown a game away. It does lack a bad matchup at this point, but I think it also makes use of a handful of cards/mechanics that are on the front end of power creep. I posted this elsewhere, but I'll repost the list here without the intro: 2x unlimited range abilities (Manaroo, Mindlink). Manaroo (while part of this is the range ability, her ship is undercosted and is an additional method in addition to Mindlink that makes it very challenging to limit the actions of this list through any number of strategies) Increased number of red dice (in the form of Fenn Rau, who while certainly has a weakness is significantly stronger when paired with both Mindlink and Manaroo) (Note: I chose not to include ATs but probably could have). Edited January 30, 2017 by AlexW 2 Sciencius and catachanninja reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catachanninja 3,712 Posted January 31, 2017 That's some insightful commentary alexw. 2 AlexW and Sciencius reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DR4CO 5,496 Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Cr0aker said: The post holiday schedule has settled down and I have been on Vassal a bit more lately. I am curious to see if people are finding lists they can reliably beat this list with? My experience so far has been to try a variety of different lists and strategies. Much to my chagrin, I have not been able to pull out a win yet with a variety of lists. Most of the OMGWTFBBQNERF lists I can beat with the right combo of list and luck. So far no dice with paratanni. I've had initial success with Carnor + Maarek + Palp. If you can get Carnor into good positions he wreaks absolute havoc, allowing Maarek to Juke some criticals through, and having both main threats above PS6 helps in handling Asajj. But I've only played the matchup twice so I should stress it is initial success. Grain of salt and all that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites