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Sunitsa

How do you deal with Asaji Fennaroo?

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Major juggler's description of the 'action economy' of this list is really a description of a broken game mechanic. It's absurd and poor game design by FFG.

When one list shows up and is able to have multiple token stacked ships whie your pitiful list has a single action per ship (like how the game was designed) it is an NPE.

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I really think people don't understand what an NPE list really is. I played 40k and Fantasy for 15 years and have seen true NPE lists. These are lists that take your opponents ability to play the game completely away. lists that auto win, and no matter of skill can save you. there is NOTHING in this game that even comes close to a true NPE.

NPE =/= hard to beat or annoying to play against.

No, that's 'broken', which is different to NPE. NPE is something that's damaging not because it's 'too good' but because it reduces enjoyment and/or promotes play styles that are harmful to player enjoyment of the game.

NPE entirely means 'annoying to play against'. That's practically the definition of the term!

Edited by Stay On The Leader

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I really think people don't understand what an NPE list really is. I played 40k and Fantasy for 15 years and have seen true NPE lists. These are lists that take your opponents ability to play the game completely away. lists that auto win, and no matter of skill can save you. there is NOTHING in this game that even comes close to a true NPE.

NPE =/= hard to beat or annoying to play against.

No, that's 'broken', which is different to NPE. NPE is something that's damaging not because it's 'too good' but because it reduces enjoyment and/or promotes play styles that are harmful to player enjoyment of the game.

NPE entirely means 'annoying to play against'. That's practically the definition of the term!

 

 

Negative Play Experience (NPE) is when playing a game frustrates or bores one or both players. NPEs are thought to prevent new players from fully entering the game and leading to existing players abandoning the game.

 

Personally, Paratanniaroojjau is nothing more than Regen aces, Palp aces, Crack Swarms, Brobots, or any of the other "netlists" we have seen over the years. Is it hard? yea it is. Is it unwinnable and frustrating? no more than any other optimal build.

 

The amount of things that get called "Broken" or "NPE" on this forum is just crazy. Basically any optimal build is called this at one point or another. In the end NPE is opinion, and you are most definitely entitled to yours. I just think that when you bandy about that term it sets a really bad image for new players on the state of the game. Which, in the end, is incredibly balanced compared to virtually every other miniature game on the market. 

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When one list shows up and is able to have multiple token stacked ships whie your pitiful list has a single action per ship (like how the game was designed) it is an NPE.

 

You've just essentially described almost every competitively successful squad for several waves. There are a few exceptions but almost everything that does well consistently does it through stacking modifiers.   

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When one list shows up and is able to have multiple token stacked ships whie your pitiful list has a single action per ship (like how the game was designed) it is an NPE.

 

You've just essentially described almost every competitively successful squad for several waves. There are a few exceptions but almost everything that does well consistently does it through stacking modifiers.   

 

Poe

Soontir

Inquisitor

Scouts

dengaroo

defenders

Jake Han

Whisper

Crackswarms w/ howlrunner

Party bus

Brobots

GunneRAC

Rey

Norra

Corran

Red Ace

...........and on and on and on and on

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Poe getting 3 actions? Please tell me how b/c I've been doing in wrong. Rey 3 actions? Wow! How?! Red Ace three actions? That's quite amazing. Really it is. (Were it true.)

First he said most, not all. Though you chose three that can get three actions/mods so thanks?

 

 

three modifications or actions

 

Poe- focus action, Pocus to hit, Pocus to evade, autothrusters to evade and spend focus to regen...

Rey- focus action add finn, reroll blanks, spend focus(or expertise), Add finn on defense, re roll dice, spend focus.... 

Redace- Green maneuver to regen, focus action, lose shield gain evade, hold evade to next turn with comm relay. Next turn Green to regen, Focus action, spend evade, take one shield, gain evade.......

 

and this is WITHOUT PTL on either Rey or Poe. 

Edited by Timathius

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Poe getting 3 actions? Please tell me how b/c I've been doing in wrong. Rey 3 actions? Wow! How?! Red Ace three actions? That's quite amazing. Really it is. (Were it true.)

 

Poe and Rey's pilot abilities both have built in action efficiency. The same thing goes for cards like Juke or Predator.

 

You can split hairs if you like and say that those aren't the same thing as getting to take multiple actions but you could apply the same logic to Paratanni or Triple X7 Defenders (a no PTL version). Both of those lists only get one action per ship.   

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Sorry, but Poe taking a focus so he can change one eyeball on attack and one eyeball on defense is nowhere near 3 actions...

 

but they dont get to take three actions either! They get to take ONE action and get UP TO two additional focus tokens (and maybe a TL once in a while).... so yea its actually pretty similar statistically.

 

Please, try and think this through everyone and stop seeing a list with good action efficiency that simply hasn't been figured out yet and screaming cheese, NPE, or Broken. 

Edited by Timathius

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None of those lists comes close to the ridiculous shenanigans described by MJ.

 

Have someone that plays Brobots, Palp Aces, Dengaroo, Fat Han (back in the Wave 4/5 days), Corran/Dash (Wave 5-7ish) go through and give the same sort of analysis of their list, why it wins, how to create winning situations, and how to avoid getting put into bad spots and I suspect you'd come away thinking the same thing about those squads.  

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Poe getting 3 actions? Please tell me how b/c I've been doing in wrong. Rey 3 actions? Wow! How?! Red Ace three actions? That's quite amazing. Really it is. (Were it true.)

 

Reveal a Green, BB8 barrel roll, PtL to grab a focus, maneuver, TL or Boost after maneuver. Yay 3 actions and 0 stress.

 

Red Ace can do 4 or more, you can figure that one out by yourself hopefully.

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Poe getting 3 actions? Please tell me how b/c I've been doing in wrong. Rey 3 actions? Wow! How?! Red Ace three actions? That's quite amazing. Really it is. (Were it true.)

 

Reveal a Green, BB8 barrel roll, PtL to grab a focus, maneuver, TL or Boost after maneuver. Yay 3 actions and 0 stress.

 

Red Ace can do 4 or more, you can figure that one out by yourself hopefully.

 

 

tbf, it's really only two "relevant" actions (mods)

 

poor guy's too fragile, unlike Rau and the additional modifiers of his title and thrusters

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None of those lists comes close to the ridiculous shenanigans described by MJ.

 

You're right, some of them have even more ridiculous shenanigans like Dengaroo. There is a reason why the most competitive lists have ways to alleviate random dice rolls. Yes, you can win tournaments with lists that rely on straight dice, but that's just you getting lucky.

 

If you had to bet 100 dollars on guessing a single coin flip correctly vs. having to guess two coin flips and get both correct, which would you choose?

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Sorry, but Poe taking a focus so he can change one eyeball on attack and one eyeball on defense is nowhere near 3 actions...

 

Poe taking a focus to change an eyeball when he attacks, and an eyeball on each of the four attacks that come his way that round, while using Autothrusters to change blanks on the two of those attacks that were out of arc or range three shots and then to finally spend the token at the end of the round to regen a shield does seem to be way more than the equivalent of three actions.

Edited by WWHSD

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None of those lists comes close to the ridiculous shenanigans described by MJ.

 

Have someone that plays Brobots, Palp Aces, Dengaroo, Fat Han (back in the Wave 4/5 days), Corran/Dash (Wave 5-7ish) go through and give the same sort of analysis of their list, why it wins, how to create winning situations, and how to avoid getting put into bad spots and I suspect you'd come away thinking the same thing about those squads.  

 

 

Hell, hearing Blair Bunke talking about this list made it sound like it was all sorts of awesome:

 

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
 
Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
 
Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
 
Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
 
Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
 
Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
 
Total: 100
 
It's Y-Wings with Torpedos and a bunch of Z-95s for chrissakes but Blair made it sound sexy as hell. 
Edited by WWHSD

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None of those lists comes close to the ridiculous shenanigans described by MJ.

 

Have someone that plays Brobots, Palp Aces, Dengaroo, Fat Han (back in the Wave 4/5 days), Corran/Dash (Wave 5-7ish) go through and give the same sort of analysis of their list, why it wins, how to create winning situations, and how to avoid getting put into bad spots and I suspect you'd come away thinking the same thing about those squads.

 

Hell, hearing Blair Bunke talking about this list made it sound like it was all sorts of awesome:

 

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Autoblaster Turret (2)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Autoblaster Turret (2)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

 

Total: 100

 

It's Y-Wings with Torpedos and a bunch of Z-95s for chrissakes but Blair made it sound sexy as hell.

Weird I just played against that exact list on vassal last night. Wasn't Blair flying it though.

Decent list. My list was rather uncompetitive and also my 2nd time flying it but I heald my own and probably should have won but our luck in the game was definitely lopsided.

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Poe getting 3 actions? Please tell me how b/c I've been doing in wrong. Rey 3 actions? Wow! How?! Red Ace three actions? That's quite amazing. Really it is. (Were it true.)

 

Reveal a Green, BB8 barrel roll, PtL to grab a focus, maneuver, TL or Boost after maneuver. Yay 3 actions and 0 stress.

 

Red Ace can do 4 or more, you can figure that one out by yourself hopefully.

PTL BB8 does not come any where near this nonsense:

"Manaroo: focus

Asajj: [has focus from Mindlink]: either target lock or evade

Fenn: [has focus from Mindlink]: either target lock or boost/barrel roll, occasionally double up on focus.

Manaroo: passes a focus to either Asajj or Fenn (whoever is getting attacked), then gets one back via Mindlink.

Asajj: gain a free evade via stress mechanic and Latts."

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