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How do you deal with Asaji Fennaroo?

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14 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

On the subject of 'fixes', I wonder: if the FAQ states that unless explicitly stated otherwise, all abilities have a max Range of R3, would that fix or hamper stuff?

AFAIK there's not many cards that don't specify a range - it's precisely why the few that don't have a range requirement stand out as so effective.

Palpatine, Manaroo, M9-G8, Sabine, Mindlink... though I'm not sure Leia Organa desperately needs that nerf!

Edited by Stay On The Leader

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19 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Y'know, possibly it's the ships that are the problem here rather than the upgrade.

When it first came out, Attani was briefly experimented with and then largely discarded, as all the potential carriers bar the JM5K quite frankly sucked at managing the stress that came with it. In other words, the card's downside actually mattered. Then you give Scum not 1 but Interceptor-level dials, one on a 10-hp pseudo-PWT, and suddenly the downside barely matters at all because all 3 ships are amazing managers of stress.

Sort of.  First, though.  I think if an upgrade card/pilot ability closes off ship design for a faction, that's the opposite of what you want and closes off game design really, really fast.    You see and hear this with Biggs over and over from the designers that they are repeatedly stymied by him and would toss him out if they could.   Manaroo is maybe getting close to that category, but I don't think she's quite there.  As Stay on the Leader mentions, I think that introducing a Scum ship dial that is the equivalent of the Awing's at this point would either be game-breaking or would have to have the cost of mindlink/Manaroo in mind to the point where the ship would likely be unplayable without them.

The real issue is that it's rarely just one card.   It's when the effects start compounding upon one another that you have an issue (even Biggs is manageable, but it sounds like they've had to table a lot of things for rebels to avoid larger problems with him).     Palpatine is nowhere near the same level of frustration if you're not running an X7 or an autothruster ship.    Zuckuss is really not effective on most ships (or merely a card you might put on a ship to try and use to get a key kill) but with a couple of ships it's 1 point, actionless offensive enhancement that can be combined with other offensive upgrades.   Mindlink when paired with Manaroo multiplies the efficiency to a degree that you just don't get in lists without her.

Edited by AlexW

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17 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I don't think there's much that would break, and it would be an elegant start to fixing some of these.

Still beliving into a Blacksun Scum pack:

-Developers wanna share some love to Kihraxz and Vipers. They said months ago, with the Scyk love.

-Imp Veterans, Heroes of the Resistances, and....? Still missing a scum exp pack. (No, the Crock is not an expansion pack).

-Cobra and Black Sun Aces have all a BlackSun colour scheme. 

 

A 1Kihraxz 1 Viper box with alternative paint (as all the other expansion packs) will cover all these points. There's no clue that FFG will missing this opportunity, in my opinion.

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As noted, hotcop/vader/gunner/vi/engine RAC and juke defender would probably be how I'd do it, and that's still a solid list right now.

E: and of course, I'm not running it despite having had a reasonable amount of practice with it because I'm a masochist apparently.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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Take this with a grain of salt because small number statistics, but of all the entered actual games in Lists Juggler in the last two months, Triple Defenders won 8 and lost 5 against Parattanni. In Regionals in these same two months, Triple Defenders won 1 and Parattanni won 2.

But again, small number statistics. I wish every TO would always enter all the matchups into Lists Juggler :D

(Data available here.)

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

As noted, hotcop/vader/gunner/vi/engine RAC and juke defender would probably be how I'd do it, and that's still a solid list right now.

E: and of course, I'm not running it despite having had a reasonable amount of practice with it because I'm a masochist apparently.

It's viable and good list,  but not a hard counter to Parattanni in any way. Even matchup I would say. 

I faced similar list twice during Warsaw Regio Swiss two  weeks ago and won both matches. One was Hotshot/Gunner/Vader version with Procket Inquistor and second was Hotshot/Gunner/Captive version with Sensor Jammer Backdraft. 

I don't think new Kylo crew changes a lot in this matchup. You can win,  you can loose its up to flying. 

 

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2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

10 pages in, and no good answers yet?

Best way to beat Paratanni appears to be playing Paratanni...

First page, destroy Fenn. That's all.

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2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

10 pages in, and no good answers yet?

Best way to beat Paratanni appears to be playing Paratanni...

Its actually not a bad plan. I was first to win a regional with Parattani, and I dropped it almost immediately afterwards as it became very popular - and is not nearly as difficult or interesting to play as people make it out to be. I still use it when people want to practice against it, though. Being familiar with the list at least lets you into your opponents head a little more. 

I think the best strategy vs Parattani is to try and force your opponent into either making a dangerous commitment with Fen, or flying him away. If they commit Fen into a bad engagement, nuke him early and the game is yours. If they fly him away, switch immediately to Manaroo and take her out with all possible haste. 

Easier said than done of course. I am truly dreading wading through the sea of Parattani at Yavin. 

Edited by Bonza

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3 minutes ago, Bonza said:

Its actually not a bad plan. I was first to win a regional with Parattani, and I dropped it almost immediately afterwards as it became very popular. I still use it when people want to practice against it, though. Being familiar with the list at least lets you into your opponents head a little more. 

I think the best strategy vs Parattani is to try and force your opponent into either making a dangerous commitment with Fen, or flying him away. If they commit Fen into a bad engagement, nuke him early and the game is yours. If they fly him away, switch immediately to Manaroo and take her out with all possible haste. 

Easier said than done of course. I am truly dreading wading through the sea of Parattani at Yavin. 

What about a 3 K bomb list? Fenn will struggle against all of those slammed bombs, I guess

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Recently I have found that it comes down to target priority and targets of opportunity.

Ideally, you want to remove Asajj as a priority as she is the one assigning stress tokens, hindering your ships and constantly throwing three to four red dice at you. Most of the time this is going to only have a single modifier (jeez, remember when a focus was THE offence modifier to have?) but that can ramp up pretty quickly if she is out of arc as she will target lock or just evade. The two agility, evade token and Latts can also be a tough nut to crack.

However, the "teeth" of the list is Fenn, he cannot be ignored so if the opportunity presents itself to remove him from the board, do it and you blunt the blade.  

That being said, you still have Manaroo in the mix as a constant source of focus tokens and the occasional damage output. 

So for me, it goes like this:

1. Kill Asajj first.

2. Fenn

3. Manaroo

Caveat: If Fenn leaves himself open, take the shot but only if you are 95% certain he WILL die. Weigh up the odds on what you are sacrificing for that shot. 

Additionally, having Kylo Ren with FCS, Rebel Captive and his titled Ship is actually quite nice against Paratanni. They need to deal with you at some point and if they do so early, they get IWSYTDS, a stress from Rebel Captive (which stresses the entire list) and then a second stress to another ship within the list due to the title and I don't think there is a easy choice in that list to who can handle two. If they ignore you, well four to five focus/target lock dice tend to play a heavy toll on any ship. 

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24 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

It's viable and good list,  but not a hard counter to Parattanni in any way. Even matchup I would say. 

I faced similar list twice during Warsaw Regio Swiss two  weeks ago and won both matches. One was Hotshot/Gunner/Vader version with Procket Inquistor and second was Hotshot/Gunner/Captive version with Sensor Jammer Backdraft. 

I don't think new Kylo crew changes a lot in this matchup. You can win,  you can loose its up to flying. 

 

Not a hard counter, no, I don't think Parattani has any.

But if I was most concerned about Parattani, but didn't want to run it myself, that's what I'd put on the table.

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15 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

Recently I have found that it comes down to target priority and targets of opportunity.

Ideally, you want to remove Asajj as a priority as she is the one assigning stress tokens, hindering your ships and constantly throwing three to four red dice at you. Most of the time this is going to only have a single modifier (jeez, remember when a focus was THE offence modifier to have?) but that can ramp up pretty quickly if she is out of arc as she will target lock or just evade. The two agility, evade token and Latts can also be a tough nut to crack.

However, the "teeth" of the list is Fenn, he cannot be ignored so if the opportunity presents itself to remove him from the board, do it and you blunt the blade.  

That being said, you still have Manaroo in the mix as a constant source of focus tokens and the occasional damage output. 

So for me, it goes like this:

1. Kill Asajj first.

2. Fenn

3. Manaroo

Caveat: If Fenn leaves himself open, take the shot but only if you are 95% certain he WILL die. Weigh up the odds on what you are sacrificing for that shot. 

Additionally, having Kylo Ren with FCS, Rebel Captive and his titled Ship is actually quite nice against Paratanni. They need to deal with you at some point and if they do so early, they get IWSYTDS, a stress from Rebel Captive (which stresses the entire list) and then a second stress to another ship within the list due to the title and I don't think there is a easy choice in that list to who can handle two. If they ignore you, well four to five focus/target lock dice tend to play a heavy toll on any ship. 

No-one will get an extra stress from the Shuttles title as all ships will already have a stress from rebel captive. The title only works if a nearby ship is unstressed. 

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29 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Just to say: I believe Tom Reed's double Casters list from Worlds has very strong matchup against Paratanni.  When we were testing Paratanni we pretty much never took a game against it.


But that list is a real pain in the ass to fly.

I agree that Ketsu is generally good vs Parattani. I flew my Ketsu/Kath list vs Jelte De Boer's Parattani at a regionals recently, and thanks to tractor tokens and Dengar on Kath, I almost 1 shot Manaroo. The game was mine for the taking, alas, I flew Kath off the board after an ill timed boost :( 

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1 hour ago, Goseki1 said:

No-one will get an extra stress from the Shuttles title as all ships will already have a stress from rebel captive. The title only works if a nearby ship is unstressed. 

True. Suppose you can't complete the first part, choose an unstressed ship so can't do the second. Fair enough. Tactician it is!

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I've actually got a list with rebel captive and Tactician on the shuttle. If you can double stress one ship you might do okay. If rebel captive wasn't unique,and Tactician wasn't limited it'd be much easier (and broken...) XD

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