Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Sygnetix

Imperial Counter-Squadron

Recommended Posts

This post is for the tactics linking thread (if it's alive).

This is my go-to against high squadron opponents. It is open to customization, it is not the end-all-be-all. You know what they say about people and opinions.

 

Anyway....there are 3 escort fighters...2 TIE Advances and Darth Vader. That's 15 squadron HP to chew through with 2 braces and a total of 9 blue, 1 black dice as well as a guarenteed 1 damage every time they are attacked (Fel). These can be driven into engagement range during squadron phase and are largely irrelevant, just keep them close to Dengar, Fel, and Mithel so they don't get plucked.

Dengar provides your escort ball with Counter 1 and synergizes with Fel and Mithel for Swarm rerolls.

Use Admiral Chinraneau to proc Mithel and to attack with Fel, Vader, or Dengar. Worse case, use the second Relay proc to keep pace with the lambda.

Use IG-88 to do IG-88 things and cherry pick targets you'd prefer dead (like Intel).

So every target that attacks the TIE Advanced or Vader takes an automatic 1 damage because of Fel. When the Escort tags go down, Fel and IG-88 have Counter 3, Mithel has Counter 1 along with the Lambda. Hopefully you've noticed you're about to lose your screen and have positioned Dengar accordingly.

Use Mithels Brace and Scatter to keep him alive as long as possible so he can churn out as many AOE procs as he can before going down. Because of the Lambda/Admiral Chin combo, Mithel will more than likely be priority target 1 so Fel will still be procing guarenteed damage. If they focus Fel instead, he has Counter 3 and Mithel keeps procing. If they focus Dengar to reduce the Swarm reroll Counter buff, Fel and Mithel are still procing.

This really is a no-win list....just keep it away from ship anti-squadron fire for god sake.

There is only 1 rogue, IG-88, so partner these with a carrier ISD or VSD for the best-est-est effect.

If you do not like the points cost (134 on the dot, plus Goznati, plus Admiral Chinaneau (33)) then drop Vader for a 3rd TIE/A (+9) and Dengar for a basic Jump Master (+8) for an extra 17 points.

If you really don't like the points, drop the Jump Master (12) for an extra 29 points. The combo still works because of the lambda.

If you're still mad it costs so much, drop that third TIE/A (12) for 41 points.

If you still aren't happy (activations aren't worth losing the squadron war, silly) then drop IG-88 (21) for an extra 62 points.

So why drop Intel all together? For one thing, Admiral Chinereau makes Intel redundant for what this fighter wing is intended to do. There's no need to be able to "fly through" your opponent. If your opponent flies through you, pounce on him.from behind. Your escorts, Dengar, and Mithel are speed 4. Fel is speed 5. If they're dirving through you thanks to intel, chances are they are a bomber wing. If you can't catch a bomber wing with this....

"But Sygnetix, they have Intel and now my stuff is Heavy QQ"...and that is why I said do not drop IG-88. Snipe the intel. Activate him with your carrier with flight controllers if you have to. Kill the Intel.

"But Sygnetix, with so many squadrons, I'll lose activations QQ"...If you use quality activations over quantity activations and win the squadron war hands down, the game is most likely yours.....this is designed to clear fighters/bombers, giving you a gargantuan points advantage.

"But Sygnetix, not everyone has Counter, not everyone has Swarm, not everyone has Scatter".....so?

"But Sygnetix, xxyz, purple alien on the roof, I saw a unicorn works better QQ"....opinions.

"But Sygnetix, what if they only take a token fighter screen, this is 167 points".. then eat their token fighter screen and use yours to go after their weakest targets first. Sic your ships on their strongest targets and meet in the middle. 

"But Sygnetix, if they took no squadrons, this isn't epic rolls for anti-Ship"....I'll add this about the inefficiency on using fighters on ships. It might not be optimal for that task but it is still capable. Bombers trying to kill fighters, though? Lol....

Then they'll learn a token screen isn't enough.

You can easily hit 4 activations with the full 134 point fighter wing, the gozanti with Admiral Chin (and prob your fleet Admiral).....this makes your flotilla lifeboat have actual game impacting function instead of just an annoyance in a corner for my Raider to go eat....and might just bait a larger portion of your opponents forces away from the fighter wing, making them that much easier to kill.

 

Imperial Counter-Squadron 
Author: Sygnetix

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 167/400

Commander: Custom Commander

Assault Objective: Custom Objective
Defense Objective: Custom Objective
Navigation Objective: Custom Objective

 

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Custom Commander  ( 0  points) 
-  Admiral Chiraneau  ( 10  points) 
33 total ship cost

 

1 IG-88 ( 21 points) 
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points) 
1 Lamda-class Shuttle ( 15 points) 
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points) 
2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points) 
1 Darth Vader ( 21 points) 
1 Dengar ( 20 points) 

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Edited by Sygnetix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like it.

 

My only change would be to add Vector to the Gozanti.  

 

Stacks with Chirpy to give you range 3 striking distance from the furball as well (on most things). 

 

All for just 2 more points.

Yup, I feel ya. I just wanted to use absolute, bare-bones minimum while describing it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would you do if your opponent is (le gasp) dramatically light on squadrons?  How much potential do these squadrons have against ships?  Are you hamstrung if you kill off their 4 token squadrons and now its all ships? 

Not really. We're still talking an ISD 4 activation fleet. Besides, it's a total of (le gasp) 3 blue, 4 black anti-ship dice. Teach them to take more than a token wing. If you want more upgrades, go with double gladiators and an arq.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three Activation w/Full Wing, 56 Points Remaining: http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=71600&key=4cba53067a2155fb533d5044e7e129ee

Four Activation w/Half Wing, 100 Points Remaining: http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=71601&key=1045ceccf413805c19883858d3dd5674

Edit: Was wrong on the 4 activation ISD unless you want to activation pad with a second flotilla. I've looked at a metric ton of lists tonight. Got 2 cross wired. Still doable, just with the half wing...unless you want to flotilla pad, in which case you might as well put your fleet Admiral in the second flotilla to split points around (bleh).

Four Activation w/ISD and Full Wing, 50 Points Remaining: http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=71602&key=cae6337fd7b36b86ecbb08d4a41da547

 

Edited by Sygnetix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What would you do if your opponent is (le gasp) dramatically light on squadrons?  How much potential do these squadrons have against ships?  Are you hamstrung if you kill off their 4 token squadrons and now its all ships? 

Not really. We're still talking an ISD 4 activation fleet. Besides, it's a total of (le gasp) 3 blue, 4 black anti-ship dice. Teach them to take more than a token wing. If you want more upgrades, go with double gladiators and an arq.

 

 

Had the same thought as Blail Blerg. While I think that the Lambda gives some security to activate squadrons out of regular range and to keep your Goza out of the fray, I would argue that it is a bit of an overinsurance for 15 pts. Dropping the lampda would leave enough points to upgrade one Tie advanced to tempest squadron (best single point spent in my eyes), and further gives you options like Saber squadron, which pairs nicely with IG-88 to deadkill stuff you really dont like. A single phantom to try that dodgy repositioning would also be a nice option. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a hard one for rebels, unless you have set up to specifily snip out mauler this list is going to be hard work. I would have to work through it but it almost pays a rebel bomber list with high tank good escorts (YTs and Biggs) to Not shoot at fighters and just passively take the hits while concentrating on hitting capital ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

What would you do if your opponent is (le gasp) dramatically light on squadrons?  How much potential do these squadrons have against ships?  Are you hamstrung if you kill off their 4 token squadrons and now its all ships? 

Not really. We're still talking an ISD 4 activation fleet. Besides, it's a total of (le gasp) 3 blue, 4 black anti-ship dice. Teach them to take more than a token wing. If you want more upgrades, go with double gladiators and an arq.

 

 

Had the same thought as Blail Blerg. While I think that the Lambda gives some security to activate squadrons out of regular range and to keep your Goza out of the fray, I would argue that it is a bit of an overinsurance for 15 pts. Dropping the lampda would leave enough points to upgrade one Tie advanced to tempest squadron (best single point spent in my eyes), and further gives you options like Saber squadron, which pairs nicely with IG-88 to deadkill stuff you really dont like. A single phantom to try that dodgy repositioning would also be a nice option. 

 

Without the lambda, you're not getting value out of that life boat flotilla outside of medium range. Although I despise the lifeboat tactic because I think FFG just missed something, this list makes it even more viable since you'd actually be getting meaning out of it by using Admiral Chineraeu from limitless range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that there's a slightly cheaper double-Brace escort in the form of Zertik Strom, I'd use him. Sorry Vader. Wave V only fixed one of your cards.

I've never been a fan of self-mutilation. The only time I'd take Zertik is if I was running an anti-squadron light list with Bossk in it. Otherwise, I'll take the 3 blue/1 black, crit rolls = damages anyday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a hard one for rebels, unless you have set up to specifily snip out mauler this list is going to be hard work. I would have to work through it but it almost pays a rebel bomber list with high tank good escorts (YTs and Biggs) to Not shoot at fighters and just passively take the hits while concentrating on hitting capital ships.

This is the only approach that has given this list pause thus far. It still came out on top but the Raider I've started taking to chase flotillas had to get involved. The perk is that if the ship targeted by the enemy survives, the fighter ball pounces on those bombers because now they're not running anymore. Some good rolls with Vader and some Flight Controller activated TIE/As and some Mithel procs (not including Fel) and it's still a sad day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that if you go with that strategy you may want to upgrade your Lambda to Jendon to double up on Vader attacks or IG attacks. I'm personally still not sold on Mithel/Fel/Dengar/Chirenau combination as I feel it to be too pricy for a specialized combo - but it is a meta call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a lot to pour into squadrons. 130? I mean experiment, get back to us if that fighter list and the fleet list hold up. I'm not saying don't do it. The fun of this game is partly the lists but i'm unsure if this is really ergonomic.

 

Why not dump Vader and make him a regular escort? or change Vader to Rudor?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a lot to pour into squadrons. 130? I mean experiment, get back to us if that fighter list and the fleet list hold up. I'm not saying don't do it. The fun of this game is partly the lists but i'm unsure if this is really ergonomic.

 

Why not dump Vader and make him a regular escort? or change Vader to Rudor?  

Did you even read what I typed or did you just stop at Vader and add your opinion?

I don't know where you got 130 but the attached is 167, 169 if you include the Vector title on the Gozanti.

There's nothing to "get back to you" on. Primarily because I feel no need to check in with you or your inferred "us." Because of this, what you say is largely irrelevant.

Why? Because you couldn't even be bothered to read the post before you had an "opinion" on it.

Edited by Sygnetix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that if you go with that strategy you may want to upgrade your Lambda to Jendon to double up on Vader attacks or IG attacks. I'm personally still not sold on Mithel/Fel/Dengar/Chirenau combination as I feel it to be too pricy for a specialized combo - but it is a meta call.

Jendon doesn't work too well here for a couple reasons. First, the additional 5 points get rough. I suppose if one were using the half wing version, maybe. Second, other than IG-88 targeting priority targets, there aren't any other ships that can effectively take advantage of it. 

Also, the irony of suggesting an increase in cost for a specialized combo (anti-Intel) in the same post you offer criticism for a generalized combo (squadron killing) is....well... it is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's a lot to pour into squadrons. 130? I mean experiment, get back to us if that fighter list and the fleet list hold up. I'm not saying don't do it. The fun of this game is partly the lists but i'm unsure if this is really ergonomic.

 

Why not dump Vader and make him a regular escort? or change Vader to Rudor?  

Did you even read what I typed or did you just click the link and add your opinion? Maybe read past the first line? Maybe?

 

 

I did. I don't know how I missed the sentence where you say nearly exactly what I said  :D Sorry.  

 

I'm just saying at that cost I am unconvinced 130 is worth it. I could be completely wrong and wouldn't mind being proven as much. To me this feels a little costly and specific especially if the opponent doesn't take fighters. However as I said, do you. I want to know if it works. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the ideas you've laid out here.  As an imperial it makes me very happy.  I do think you can take just a bit less like you've pointed out (I'd switch Vader to Strom or an advanced) and still be very effective.  My favorite idea I'd like to experiment with is Chirpy on the Gozanti.  It "might" even call for dropping INTEL altogether (as you also pointed out).  And Vector plus Chirpy seems awesome.

 

Ok so I'm not trying to be a **** at all (seriously, I'm not) about this but wouldn't this be a good topic in the Fleet forum?  I know that there are good petitions for the "Strategy" subforum but I think we can actually post a lot of the info deemed strategy in the Fleet forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

That's a lot to pour into squadrons. 130? I mean experiment, get back to us if that fighter list and the fleet list hold up. I'm not saying don't do it. The fun of this game is partly the lists but i'm unsure if this is really ergonomic.

 

Why not dump Vader and make him a regular escort? or change Vader to Rudor?  

Did you even read what I typed or did you just click the link and add your opinion? Maybe read past the first line? Maybe?

 

 

I did. I don't know how I missed the sentence where you say nearly exactly what I said  :D Sorry.  

 

I'm just saying at that cost I am unconvinced 130 is worth it. I could be completely wrong and wouldn't mind being proven as much. To me this feels a little costly and specific especially if the opponent doesn't take fighters. However as I said, do you. I want to know if it works. 

 

Ok, let's say your opponent takes a token fighter wing. Let's say....4 <insert fighter/interceptor>.

This will kill that inside of two turns, taking little to no casualties. Automatic points advantage.

So now let's talk about what kind of lists take token fighter screens.

If we're talking something like a dual ISD list, it's going to be a struggle but in this case I'd sic my fighters and ships on one and then, hopefully, the other. 

In an MSU list...they might be fighters and crits might not count but it's still a fist full of dice coming one at a time. As I've said multiple times now, sic those fighters on your opponent's weakest ships first while your ships focus his strongest ships. Worse case scenario, partner up your fighters with your ships and spam squadron commands. You roll enough squadron anti-ship dice, you're going to either completely strip the shields or force them to exhaust/burn ship tokens, making killing them with your ships that much easier.

There's also an additional perk to being able to hit 4 activations with this fighter screen or a variation thereof....this screen cannot be one shot or 1 turned. With so much focus put on "spreading your points around" at times, I'm surprised this mentality has never been applied to fighters.

I think the problem is too many people view squadrons as an after thought or a gap filling tool to get closer to 400 and/or a place to strip points for an initiative bid.

Edited by Sygnetix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the ideas you've laid out here.  As an imperial it makes me very happy.  I do think you can take just a bit less like you've pointed out (I'd switch Vader to Strom or an advanced) and still be very effective.  My favorite idea I'd like to experiment with is Chirpy on the Gozanti.  It "might" even call for dropping INTEL altogether (as you also pointed out).  And Vector plus Chirpy seems awesome.

 

Ok so I'm not trying to be a **** at all (seriously, I'm not) about this but wouldn't this be a good topic in the Fleet forum?  I know that there are good petitions for the "Strategy" subforum but I think we can actually post a lot of the info deemed strategy in the Fleet forum.

Tracking on the post location. Every time I've posted a fleet using parts (or all) of this concept has largely been crucified by meta-experts. Thoughht I'd just follow suit in the forum the strat guide was posted....plus it might get more traffic here than fleet. You have to figure, there's a large chunk of people who probably view threads in fleet as a buncha noobs asking for halp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The original post showing a 134 point squadron killer example of Sygnetix's theories looks fun but it is still the cost that bothers me. Spending all 134 points on anti-fighter specialist squadrons and then some more points to support them (Ciraneau, Boosted comms etc.) seems harsh. It has a risk of being sub standard against a light fighter force, swatting them easily - but then inefficiently attacking ships. There are some black dice included but it is without bombers.

 

Syngetix gives examples of what to drop/substitute to reduce the cost but I wonder if 6-8 Tie-Int and a set of flight controllers could do the job with waves of blue dice for fewer points.

 

Sontir Fel is great in theory paired with Escort Tie-As but the enemy can see this and tend in my experience to move to range 1 of the Tie-A but not Fel and shoot from there. Fell will score auto damage in the game bit not on every occasion. Once one escort is dead it is increasingly difficult to surround your 4 juicy targets (Dengar, Mauler, Fel, Lamda) with escort. Still as this happens the imperials are dishing out damage at a good rate so hopefully they can just take it as they die slower (or kill faster) than their opponents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The original post showing a 134 point squadron killer example of Sygnetix's theories looks fun but it is still the cost that bothers me. Spending all 134 points on anti-fighter specialist squadrons and then some more points to support them (Ciraneau, Boosted comms etc.) seems harsh. It has a risk of being sub standard against a light fighter force, swatting them easily - but then inefficiently attacking ships. There are some black dice included but it is without bombers.

 

Syngetix gives examples of what to drop/substitute to reduce the cost but I wonder if 6-8 Tie-Int and a set of flight controllers could do the job with waves of blue dice for fewer points.

 

Sontir Fel is great in theory paired with Escort Tie-As but the enemy can see this and tend in my experience to move to range 1 of the Tie-A but not Fel and shoot from there. Fell will score auto damage in the game bit not on every occasion. Once one escort is dead it is increasingly difficult to surround your 4 juicy targets (Dengar, Mauler, Fel, Lamda) with escort. Still as this happens the imperials are dishing out damage at a good rate so hopefully they can just take it as they die slower (or kill faster) than their opponents.

Agreed, I know a lot of people take issue with the 167 (169 w/Vector) point investment. If you make all suggested cuts, it drops that down to 107, including the Gozanti/Admiral combo. 

Because there is such an investment in fighters, I definitely highly recommend spamming squadron commands every turn.

Why? Because, lol. No, in all seriousness because there is such an investment, why not? Give up 1 dice from concentrate fire for 3-5 squadrons worth, depending on your carriers load outs? Seems fair. So in this instance, you activate a stripped down ISD. Four squadrons activate. They either get "initiative" in the squad war and can dictate how and when the fighters engage OR they can begin weaking the shields of a ship.

In my experience, opponents won't burn defense tokens on squadron attacks against shields. 

So let's say out of those 4 activated squadrons, we got 4 hits. Thats either 4 shields or some redirects since they can't brace 1 damage from each squadron nor can they evade. Can't get that from a concentrate fire command.

Now your ISD fires....at a ship with no shields before you even touched your dice.

I usually turn 1 navigate token and turn 2 engineering token (unless it seems like we're going to engage in turn two, then it's squadron commands). To off set the lowered maneuverability due to squadron command spams, I run speed 2 or 1 on the Carrier ISD.

As far as just a fist full of Interceptors....sure. I guess. I don't think it would be as flexible as this list. I think that if your fist full of Interceptors encounters a fist full of Awings, they'll die a horrific, fiery death and then your opponent will do to you what I'm saying to do to them.

Also....is there a reason you're talking about me and not to me?

Edited by Sygnetix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...