Decimator, Defender Tournament List - Need Feedback

[BeerGeekGamer 2]

Hello,

 

I have three tournaments coming up before regionals, and I'm trying to nail down my list. I love flying the Decimator, so I wanted to center my list around it. I've pretty much have narrowed it down to the two following list but really can't decide.

 

List 1: 

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Rebel Captive (3)

Engine Upgrade (4)

 

Countess Ryad (32)

Lone Wolf (2)

TIE/x7  (-2)

Stealth Device (3)

 

Total: 99

 

Notes: I really like using Palpatine, he has come in handy so many times. With the Engine Upgrade, I should be able to hopefully get out of arc or create some distance, and with having PS 10 ensures me hitting first and getting my damage in. Countess will hopefully get behind the enemy and clean up what the Decimator has left behind.

 

List 2:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Gunner (5)

Hotshot Co-pilot (4)

Rebel Captive (3)

Engine Upgrade (4)

 

Countess Ryad (32)

Lone Wolf (2)

TIE/x7  (-2)

Stealth Device (3)

 

 

Total: 100

 

Notes: I really like the idea of this list, but it hasn't played as well for me as the above, although I haven't played this list enough. So no secret here, again PS 10 ensures me hitting first and getting damage in, while using Hotshot Co-pilot to strip their tokens, and Gunner to re-roll to really bring on the damage. Countess is the same, more than likely I'll be jousting Countess in the beginning to get behind the enemy, and then bring in the Decimator to start the combat.

 

What do you guys think, any suggestions? I know a lot of people like putting Darth Vader on the Decimator, but something about doing damage to myself is just not appealing, and I figure that the Decimator is going to be the target, so I'd like to keep him alive as long as possible. 

[Vitalis 1,012]

Vader > Captive

[Karhedron 1,865]

I rather feel that Juke might be better with Hotshot Copilot in order to force through damage against opponents that have been stripped of their Focus tokens.

[Goseki1 637]

Agreed. Maarek instead of Ryad with Juke is great in the second list you have there.

Hotshot/EU takes practice and confidence to to fly defensively though.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Goseki1

[BeerGeekGamer 2]

I do like the idea of Juke, but not sure about Maarek. Having the ability to do green k-turns is pretty nice.

[Raven19528 158]

True, but unless you plan on doing a lot of short hard turns, you aren't going to be stressed, so why do green K-turns matter more than a white K-turn? I think getting Juke to minimize the effectiveness of there evades pts you in a good position against other defenders too, as they won't have focus tokens to help their evasion. Maarek also has the ability to allow you to choose the crit, meaning if you knock them down to 2 health left, you have a better shot at pulling a direct hit when drawing three cards as opposed to drawing one. Can also allow you to land those nasty blinded pilot crits, and since he's higher PS than most other defenders, he shoots first, and can possibly avoid the return fire.

[BeerGeekGamer 2]

I get where you're coming from, but with Countess you get to choose from 4 different k-turns, and with Maarek you only get to choose one. I'm playing tonight with a buddy, so I'll try out Maarek and see how it goes.

I'm still hesitant to not use Palpatine. He has just been able to help in a lot of situations.

[BeerGeekGamer 2]

I was also thinking of the following

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)

Adaptability (Increase) (0)

Gunner (5)

Hotshot Co-pilot (4)

Rebel Captive (3)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Countess Ryad (34)

Push The Limit (3)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Stealth Device (3)

Total: 100

Edited January 17, 2017 by BeerGeekGamer

[Goseki1 637]

That's a lovely list as well. Ryad is my favourite Defender pilot by miles.

[BeerGeekGamer 2]

I played four games last night and I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the list below. It was the most reliable, and Palpatine was able to save hits and push through damage at key times. Hopefully this list treats me well with my three upcoming tournaments. Depending on how it preforms, I might have to make changes to it for regional's.

 

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

 

Countess Ryad (34)

Push the Limit (3)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

 

Total: 100

[Whippoorwills 83]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD2AjlEv0yA

 

First shot, use predator to reroll a hit so gunner procs, then fire again. Use Vader on big threats and don't be afraid to use him. The decimator will most likely go down.

 

Rac & Ryad (100)
Rear Admiral Chiraneau — VT-49 Decimator     46
Predator     3
Hotshot Co-pilot     4
Darth Vader     3
Gunner     5
Engine Upgrade     4
Ship Total: 65
     
Countess Ryad — TIE Defender     34
Juke     2
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II     1
TIE/x7     -2
Ship Total: 35

Edited January 18, 2017 by Whippoorwills

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

I ran it with Vader/Gunner/HotCoP and Lone Wolf Rexler, but that REALLY should have been Juke not Lone Wolf on reflection.  PS8 is better than PS5 and the green Ks are only really good with PTL.  ANd GUnner/HotCoP and Juke go together SO nicely, Vader is just the icing on the top that lets you fong Fenn Rau.

[Whippoorwills 83]

I ran it with Vader/Gunner/HotCoP and Lone Wolf Rexler, but that REALLY should have been Juke not Lone Wolf on reflection.  PS8 is better than PS5 and the green Ks are only really good with PTL.  ANd GUnner/HotCoP and Juke go together SO nicely, Vader is just the icing on the top that lets you fong Fenn Rau.

 

Well, the strength with Ryad is that she can do 2-5 K-turns while Rexler only have a 4 K which makes him a bit more predictable. But that's just my 2 cents

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

 

I ran it with Vader/Gunner/HotCoP and Lone Wolf Rexler, but that REALLY should have been Juke not Lone Wolf on reflection.  PS8 is better than PS5 and the green Ks are only really good with PTL.  ANd GUnner/HotCoP and Juke go together SO nicely, Vader is just the icing on the top that lets you fong Fenn Rau.

 

Well, the strength with Ryad is that she can do 2-5 K-turns while Rexler only have a 4 K which makes him a bit more predictable. But that's just my 2 cents

 

She's also PS5 which rather obviates the lack of predictability to some extent.

 

Either way, the key point what the Gunner, Hot Shot Copilot and Juke go together really well.

[Whippoorwills 83]

Either way, the key point what the Gunner, Hot Shot Copilot and Juke go together really well.

 

 

That I totally agree with.

[TitaniumChopstick 701]

My list is :

RAC- Adaptability, Palp, Gunner, Engine

Ryad- Lone Wolf, x7, Stealth

Its really similar to one of your lists (a list I ran before switching to gunner) but I never got much use out of Rebel captive or Vader in that list with all the defenders and Dengaroo floating around, so I switched to gunner and Palp, letting me have a SUPER tanky Ryad (Palp) and increased offense against the defender mirror match (Gunner). You do have to switch VI to adaptability, but this isnt really a problem to me if you consider the matchups you will face most often. Against defenders, RAC still gets above all of them, no problems there. Against Demgaroo, spilt up your guys and go after Manaroo then probably run to time, probably just leaving Dengar alone. Against Fenn, it does get a little more difficult, but you can block him with RAC to make sure you dont get shot by him while you focus on Terry or Manaroo. Probably looking to trade RAC for Terry and Manny, with Ryad being able to stand a chance against a weakened Fenn 1 v 1. IMO, you're either building Deci + Ace one of 2 ways. Either you're going all out offense with Juke on Ryad and hotshot+gunner+Vader or you're going defensive with palp on Deci and Lone Wolf+Stealth on Ryad. There isnt really a middle ground if youre trying to be super competitive with this list archetype. Personally, I prefer the defensive build just so you have almost a guaranteed win against anything not able to get through Ryads defenses, much like how Soontir used to be back in the day. However, I do definitely see the merits of a more offensive build, and I dont really see a great power gap between the 2 lists so whichever suits your play style more should be better for you.

Sorry if this was a bit long... I tend to ramble when I talk about lists that I love.

Edited January 18, 2017 by TitaniumChopstick

[BeerGeekGamer 2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD2AjlEv0yA

 

First shot, use predator to reroll a hit so gunner procs, then fire again. Use Vader on big threats and don't be afraid to use him. The decimator will most likely go down.

 

Rac & Ryad (100)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau — VT-49 Decimator     46

Predator     3

Hotshot Co-pilot     4

Darth Vader     3

Gunner     5

Engine Upgrade     4

Ship Total: 65

     

Countess Ryad — TIE Defender     34

Juke     2

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II     1

TIE/x7     -2

Ship Total: 35

 

I totally agree that this list is very powerful and has great synergy, but for me, it just doesn't perform when I play it.

[wfain 115]

I know it isn't the point of the thread but isn't Juke Vader a better partner for RAC than an x7? Isn't the greatest strength of Defenders the consistent kill-box they create in pairs? Vader, while not as durable, obviously has higher pilot skill, more flexible action taking, and a less predictable dial while offering comparable offensive output. Consider the following:

 

RAC VADER

99 points

 

PILOTS

Darth Vader (36)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Juke (2), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (63)
VT-49 Decimator (46), Veteran Instincts (1), Gunner (5), Hotshot Co-pilot (4), Mara Jade (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

[CatchySlim 16]

I love the Palp Captive crew.  I would run Inquisitor with Proton rockets over Countess.  Add the title and Ion bombs and you have yourself a regionals winning list...

RAC's weaknesses are autothrusters and turrets.  Inquisitor does well against both those ships.  Hotshot Gunner combo won't benefit you in all your matchups.  If you run into another RAC running Hotshot Gunner your Palp and Inquisitor are a great matchup against it.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Edited January 18, 2017 by CatchySlim

[TheOz 484]

I love the Palp Captive crew.  I would run Inquisitor with Proton rockets over Countess.  Add the title and Ion bombs and you have yourself a regionals winning list...

RAC's weaknesses are autothrusters and turrets.  Inquisitor does well against both those ships.  Hotshot Gunner combo won't benefit you in all your matchups.  If you run into another RAC running Hotshot Gunner your Palp and Inquisitor are a great matchup against it.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

I would argue that hotshot gunner would do really well against your Rac list. He can strip the inquisitor focus before he could ever use it for prockets, ( if you vi rac) and do you use palp on the first shot or the gunner shot, then vader crew can make quick work of him from that point. Then a nicely still healthy defender can help my rac finish off yours.

The great thing about Hotshot is that it is both defensive and offensive. It helps you get damage through on your opponent and helps keep them from pushing damage into you. Combined with juke, the synergy has arguably made it better then just sticking palp on it. As someone who flew Palp rac a lot last regional season, I feel so much safer with hotshot gunner+ a healthier defender. Although I think the inquisitor and vader can both do a great job, and im experimenting with them too, the defenders beef just helps a lot

[CatchySlim 16]

 

I love the Palp Captive crew.  I would run Inquisitor with Proton rockets over Countess.  Add the title and Ion bombs and you have yourself a regionals winning list...

RAC's weaknesses are autothrusters and turrets.  Inquisitor does well against both those ships.  Hotshot Gunner combo won't benefit you in all your matchups.  If you run into another RAC running Hotshot Gunner your Palp and Inquisitor are a great matchup against it.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

I would argue that hotshot gunner would do really well against your Rac list. He can strip the inquisitor focus before he could ever use it for prockets, ( if you vi rac) and do you use palp on the first shot or the gunner shot, then vader crew can make quick work of him from that point. Then a nicely still healthy defender can help my rac finish off yours.

The great thing about Hotshot is that it is both defensive and offensive. It helps you get damage through on your opponent and helps keep them from pushing damage into you. Combined with juke, the synergy has arguably made it better then just sticking palp on it. As someone who flew Palp rac a lot last regional season, I feel so much safer with hotshot gunner+ a healthier defender. Although I think the inquisitor and vader can both do a great job, and im experimenting with them too, the defenders beef just helps a lot

 

I have flown against hotshot gunner at least 5 times and the vader combo a couple times.  Hasn't really been close.  The only damage RAC is going to do to inquisitor is through vader, which by the time he does that he is down to between 7 and 5 hull for the second round of combat.  then if he double vaders again next round you just traded a RAC for Inquisitor. A full health or almost full health palp, captive Rac can take on a defender.  and Prockets are for the defender not RAC.  Inquis can handle RAC without those.    Inquis with Auto thrusters and a token doesn't need usually need palp to survive both shots which means an extra crit for RAC.  I could be wrong, I haven't flown the defender/hotshot, gunner RAC myself, just flown against it.  I could just be an exceptional pilot

[Pumpkyre 199]

 

I love the Palp Captive crew.  I would run Inquisitor with Proton rockets over Countess.  Add the title and Ion bombs and you have yourself a regionals winning list...

RAC's weaknesses are autothrusters and turrets.  Inquisitor does well against both those ships.  Hotshot Gunner combo won't benefit you in all your matchups.  If you run into another RAC running Hotshot Gunner your Palp and Inquisitor are a great matchup against it.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

I would argue that hotshot gunner would do really well against your Rac list. He can strip the inquisitor focus before he could ever use it for prockets, ( if you vi rac) and do you use palp on the first shot or the gunner shot, then vader crew can make quick work of him from that point. Then a nicely still healthy defender can help my rac finish off yours.

The great thing about Hotshot is that it is both defensive and offensive. It helps you get damage through on your opponent and helps keep them from pushing damage into you. Combined with juke, the synergy has arguably made it better then just sticking palp on it. As someone who flew Palp rac a lot last regional season, I feel so much safer with hotshot gunner+ a healthier defender. Although I think the inquisitor and vader can both do a great job, and im experimenting with them too, the defenders beef just helps a lot

 

I second that. From my experience, this RAC keeps his Defender escort kicking for pretty long time, while letting him use his Juke talent more efficiently. And with VI and EU, he's not so easy to catch either. 

[TheOz 484]

I love the Palp Captive crew.  I would run Inquisitor with Proton rockets over Countess.  Add the title and Ion bombs and you have yourself a regionals winning list...

RAC's weaknesses are autothrusters and turrets.  Inquisitor does well against both those ships.  Hotshot Gunner combo won't benefit you in all your matchups.  If you run into another RAC running Hotshot Gunner your Palp and Inquisitor are a great matchup against it.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

I would argue that hotshot gunner would do really well against your Rac list. He can strip the inquisitor focus before he could ever use it for prockets, ( if you vi rac) and do you use palp on the first shot or the gunner shot, then vader crew can make quick work of him from that point. Then a nicely still healthy defender can help my rac finish off yours.

The great thing about Hotshot is that it is both defensive and offensive. It helps you get damage through on your opponent and helps keep them from pushing damage into you. Combined with juke, the synergy has arguably made it better then just sticking palp on it. As someone who flew Palp rac a lot last regional season, I feel so much safer with hotshot gunner+ a healthier defender. Although I think the inquisitor and vader can both do a great job, and im experimenting with them too, the defenders beef just helps a lot

I have flown against hotshot gunner at least 5 times and the vader combo a couple times.  Hasn't really been close.  The only damage RAC is going to do to inquisitor is through vader, which by the time he does that he is down to between 7 and 5 hull for the second round of combat.  then if he double vaders again next round you just traded a RAC for Inquisitor. A full health or almost full health palp, captive Rac can take on a defender.  and Prockets are for the defender not RAC.  Inquis can handle RAC without those.    Inquis with Auto thrusters and a token doesn't need usually need palp to survive both shots which means an extra crit for RAC.  I could be wrong, I haven't flown the defender/hotshot, gunner RAC myself, just flown against it.  I could just be an exceptional pilot

Well I can't question your personal experience, other then question how good your opponents are with the ship and combo. If your blocking the first shot, the second shot, and the defenders juke shot, you are just getting super lucky dice, not to knock your skill, but that's a lot of teeth, are they flying at ps 10, because if it were me I'd just:

Fly into range one after you move

Fire, strip focus because then range one gives you no benefit, then fire 4 dice at you again. I hopefully get a target lock by even if I didn't, that should spend either both tokens or palp, then defender shoots, knocks down one of your evade results and even it I only take one shield, you need to really get out of the defenders way because the next turn if I can land double vader and a juke shot, it's more then likely your down a inquisitor. And if they are not getting both ships on your inquisitor, it's the players, not the list, because really that needs to happen against every opponent this list fights. But that fact is no different for your build so you should know that already, if they can't pin your ace down, they are doing it wrong

[CatchySlim 16]

I see your points and I still stand by mine. The matchup would be tougher against Someone who flys it well. However I think palp captive is still better against more lists than hotshot gunner.

[TheOz 484]

Well there is no doubt it's a good combo and I use to fly that and palp vader too. And it just won a regional too I think so I can't fight you too much on it. I'd say give it a try though, you might be surprised with how much you don't need palp. I truly believe from experience that RAC's best defense is super high offense. Palp does nothing to protect rac, but hot shot keeps their eyes from turning to hits and palp changes one die result, but does nothing for lowering their defenses. But if you hot shot and roll blanks, you still strip their focus, and if you do roll all hits, they gotta choose if they want to waste more of their other tokens or palp or whatever on it, if they take damage on the first shot, awesome, if they block the shot, great do the gunner shot, and usually of you have a target lock, you'd save it for the second shot anyway and now they probably lost all defence, and In that case your defender/ other ship(you can still pair it with any ace you want) gets to blow right through them. The reason I run vader over captive is because a lot of ships don't have too hard of a time dealing with one stress, but gunner vader is a great hard counter to most aces and I will easily take 2 damage to prevent 3-4 damage or worse. You just have to be wise when you use it

The beautiful thing about vader and gunner is if you have at least 5 hull and your opponent has 1-2 hull or two ships at 1 hull, you already won the game, and trust me I have won like that many games, as long as you vi of course

Edited January 19, 2017 by TheOz