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Velvetelvis

Nerf queens please. Proposed fix

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Triple queen lists, how do you beat em?

Pawn swarms might be making a comeback.

But that's basically just a Queen swarm at a discount, after the whole "get to the back row" fix they put in. 

 

I suggest a fix where, no matter how many queens you have, you can still lose if you don't protect one of your other pieces. Maybe the King?

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Triple queen lists, how do you beat em?

Pawn swarms might be making a comeback.

But that's basically just a Queen swarm at a discount, after the whole "get to the back row" fix they put in. 

 

I suggest a fix where, no matter how many queens you have, you can still lose if you don't protect one of your other pieces. Maybe the King?

 

No way. How would you deal with focus fire, then? You'd need some sort of defensive formation; maybe a castle or something, but I'd hate to see what kind of rules cludge we end up with there.

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For hundreds of years we have had to deal with queens moving any number of squares in ANY direction.

It's ruined game balance for too long and it's time for a fix.

Queen should only be able to move to the left and only three squares at most.

It doesn't matter that top players don't even win games with the queen.

It's stupidly over powered.

There has been literally ONE competitive list in chess for the last few hundred years. This meta is worse than the dark times of the Fat Han. Every game is a mirror match, you don't even see any variation in casual games.

Obviously X-wing would be 100% balanced if everyone played one list, but I don't think this is what the people would like to see.

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as a chess player, I dont find this amusing. I know it is meant to be a joke, but chess is the ultimate tatics and statergy game where the only thing that matters is player skill. No random dice rolls, or weird obsticle placements. no new combo to learn or take advantage of, dont have to spend the most money. just look at the board and see the right move. skill vs skill. X-wing (while it is a game I love) cant even lick the boot of chess!!!!!!!!!

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as a chess player, I dont find this amusing. I know it is meant to be a joke, but chess is the ultimate tatics and statergy game where the only thing that matters is player skill. No random dice rolls, or weird obsticle placements. no new combo to learn or take advantage of, dont have to spend the most money. just look at the board and see the right move. skill vs skill. X-wing (while it is a game I love) cant even lick the boot of chess!!!!!!!!!

Chess is basicaly a coin flip on who plays white, no skillz involved at all!!!

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Chess is basicaly a coin flip on who plays white, no skillz involved at all!!!

 

 

said by someone who obviously doesn't understand the complexities of the game.

 

If white plays perfectly, white should win.

If black plays perfectly, Black should draw.

 

what happens if both play perfectly?

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as a chess player, I dont find this amusing. I know it is meant to be a joke, but chess is the ultimate tatics and statergy game where the only thing that matters is player skill. No random dice rolls, or weird obsticle placements. no new combo to learn or take advantage of, dont have to spend the most money. just look at the board and see the right move. skill vs skill. X-wing (while it is a game I love) cant even lick the boot of chess!!!!!!!!!

Uhm, no combos to learn? I mean, a Ruy López opening runs like 13 turns in more or less predetermined ways until someone might derive from it and there are tons of different openings, and whole series of moves which have been determined as being optimal for certain situations, shortcuts which help you to keep the amount of moves you have to calculate on the fly down, furthermore top players will have a whole team to analyse moves and create a even bigger library of potential moves and how to counter them, which introduce new combos on top of all those complex old ones.

Besides, chess is nice and all, but go is still whole magnitudes above chess. ;-)

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I will agree with you about "GO" 100%

 

And the Ruy Lopez at 13 moves is honestly a little low. :) But the general princples behind the moves are what need to be understood. If you look in a book and make the moves without the understanding, you really dont stand a chance against someone who understands the game but cant memorize the theoretical openings.

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as a chess player, I dont find this amusing. I know it is meant to be a joke, but chess is the ultimate tatics and statergy game where the only thing that matters is player skill. No random dice rolls, or weird obsticle placements. no new combo to learn or take advantage of, dont have to spend the most money. just look at the board and see the right move. skill vs skill. X-wing (while it is a game I love) cant even lick the boot of chess!!!!!!!!!

 

The problem, I think, is a fundamental perception with X-wing - and a lot of games which involve you coming up with your own army list - that the game revolves around "hard counters". 

 

I'm not going to suggest for a minute that there are not match-ups which are better or worse for a given unit - a trio of academy pilots are a **** sight more dangerous to an agility 0 target than an agility 4, token laden ace, despite both (in theory) being the same price.

 

However, my pet hate is a tendancy for people to perceive that the only way to win is hard counters - that if you have X versus Y, you lose automatically - or worse, demanding that something "hard counter" a potential opponent for it to be even considered as worth taking. Part of the problem, I think, is that it's easy to talk about how to modify a list on a forum, but not easy to talk accurately about deployment, openings and tactics on a text-only forum in the way you could with chess. Which tends to reinforce people's focus on trying to win by list-writing rather than smart strategy (deployment of ships, obstacles and turn one moves) and tactics (mid and late turn moves and fire distribution).

 

I think an interesting thought experiment might be taking a list - not necessarily an amazing one - and trying to beat the 'meta' lists not by suggesting changes, but by suggesting tactics. I genuinely believe there is a way any squad should be able to at least put up a fight against any other list (note - I'm not demanding "win").

 

I also second Go, by the way. There's a reason it took about several decades longer to develop an AI able to reliably beat expert Go players than expert Chess players.

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All this chess talk has inspired in me the ultimate X-wing fix: make the senstors shuttle a required piece in tournament settings. There's your King, protect his ass or yours is grass.

If you've never played "political escort" with 100 point squads, I urge you to try. As with epic, it's a dramatically different game. 

  • Soontir Fel and co can't stay within range 1 of the shuttle and can't kill stuff fast enough to defend it
  • Dengar with Zuckuss is lethal....but no-one's shooting at him - and he doesn't have any actions to use protect.
  • Etc, etc.

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I will agree with you about "GO" 100%

 

And the Ruy Lopez at 13 moves is honestly a little low. :) But the general principles behind the moves are what need to be understood. If you look in a book and make the moves without the understanding, you really dont stand a chance against someone who understands the game but cant memorize the theoretical openings.

And exactly the same is true for x-wing. You need the understand the principles of the dice, of approaches, asteroid placement, turn-0 and openings. Openings are actually key in a lot of x-wing matchups. X-Wing is a rather young game, so outside of the rule of 11 I have not heard about any real opening libraries publically avaible, but there are plenty of complex fortress setups, etc going on in that regard as well.

X-Wing is a complex game and the playing field offers a similar amount of positional states as go with a board that is 22x22 ship lengths, though technical half lengths are relevant as well, which would increase the field to 44x44. Lucky x-wing is still not as complex because the limit amount of ships and movement options on the board and limited amount of turns a match takes, etc 

 

And I have no idea why I am even writing this up in a mocking topic about all those pointless fix abc topics which provide zero productivity and are unlike this topic not the slightest funny either. ^_^

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