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Anchored Cantina - New Map Rotation Discussion

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The new scoring system seems to be pushing people towards uniques, but I think both of these scenarios will favor lists with lots of little dudes to spare. 

 

It's easier to have one hired gun fondle a patron and give up that action than it is to have Luke or Bossk ect use one of their actions feeling a patron up rather than attacking. 

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The new scoring system seems to be pushing people towards uniques, but I think both of these scenarios will favor lists with lots of little dudes to spare. 

 

It's easier to have one hired gun fondle a patron and give up that action than it is to have Luke or Bossk ect use one of their actions feeling a patron up rather than attacking.

Obi Wan will be an essential in Rebel lists now though I think, considering that he's REALLY GOOD on 5/6 scenarios (either blocking control/interaction or using Pierce 3 to show the Dianoga who's boss)

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

 

From what I understand, "count as having VP" is simply a way of saying "temporarily, pretend it counts towards your score". Remember the game ends immediately once any player's got 40VP? That's what it's used for

 

But "pretend it counts towards your score" is not the same as "you actually have it and cannot lose it". So no you cannot spend it with Jabba since you do not actually have the VP

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

 

From what I understand, "count as having VP" is simply a way of saying "temporarily, pretend it counts towards your score". Remember the game ends immediately once any player's got 40VP? That's what it's used for

 

But "pretend it counts towards your score" is not the same as "you actually have it and cannot lose it". So no you cannot spend it with Jabba since you do not actually have the VP

So basically we'll have to keep track of two different types of VP, and when they add up to 40, you win.

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It is a little odd how they worded it since they didn't include a provision where your token can be removed from a patron. It's similar to those missions where you only have the points while controlling something or your token is on something but can be removed. So they're counted as temporary even though I don't see a way to lose them.

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Darn it, they're changing right before our regionals on the 28th ... and I had just picked up the Nelvannian War Zone map in November. Used it once.

They just changed the rotation right before Worlds in November ... rotating too fast.

Grrr.

 

It's almost like it is all just a ploy to get us to keep spending money..

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

 

From what I understand, "count as having VP" is simply a way of saying "temporarily, pretend it counts towards your score". Remember the game ends immediately once any player's got 40VP? That's what it's used for

 

But "pretend it counts towards your score" is not the same as "you actually have it and cannot lose it". So no you cannot spend it with Jabba since you do not actually have the VP

 

Where did you get this from?  Any official ruling?

 

I don't see anything in the rules that suggest you cannot spend those VPs.

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

 

From what I understand, "count as having VP" is simply a way of saying "temporarily, pretend it counts towards your score". Remember the game ends immediately once any player's got 40VP? That's what it's used for

 

But "pretend it counts towards your score" is not the same as "you actually have it and cannot lose it". So no you cannot spend it with Jabba since you do not actually have the VP

 

Where did you get this from?  Any official ruling?

 

I don't see anything in the rules that suggest you cannot spend those VPs.

 

 

 

No, I don't have official rulings, I arrived at that conclusion simply by its wordings in which you may not spend VPs from "count as having" 

 

Otherwise, how would you deal with this case?

 

Mission rule: A player that controls the patron count as having an additional 5VP

 

I control it with a rStormie

I spend 2VP with Jabba

You then killed my rStormie, I no longer control it

 

The explanation that makes the most sense to me is you flat out may not spend them

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No, I don't have official rulings, I arrived at that conclusion simply by its wordings in which you may not spend VPs from "count as having" 

 

Otherwise, how would you deal with this case?

 

Mission rule: A player that controls the patron count as having an additional 5VP

 

I control it with a rStormie

I spend 2VP with Jabba

You then killed my rStormie, I no longer control it

 

The explanation that makes the most sense to me is you flat out may not spend them

 

 

That is not how this mission works.  There is no mechanism for you to lose the patron VPs.  You only need control of the Patron to be able to interact with them - doing so places the token on the Patron.  From that point forward that token will remain on the Patron until end of game. 

 

The reason they state the rule the way they do is because the amount of VPs you get scales as you gain more Patrons.   This is needed because there isn't anything that prevents you from putting multiple tokens on a single patron, but they only want you to gain points for each patron that has at least 1 token (there is no point in putting a 2nd token on a patron).

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

 

From what I understand, "count as having VP" is simply a way of saying "temporarily, pretend it counts towards your score". Remember the game ends immediately once any player's got 40VP? That's what it's used for

 

But "pretend it counts towards your score" is not the same as "you actually have it and cannot lose it". So no you cannot spend it with Jabba since you do not actually have the VP

Where did you get this from?  Any official ruling?

 

I don't see anything in the rules that suggest you cannot spend those VPs.

 

 

No, I don't have official rulings, I arrived at that conclusion simply by its wordings in which you may not spend VPs from "count as having" 

 

Otherwise, how would you deal with this case?

 

Mission rule: A player that controls the patron count as having an additional 5VP

 

I control it with a rStormie

I spend 2VP with Jabba

You then killed my rStormie, I no longer control it

 

The explanation that makes the most sense to me is you flat out may not spend them

The mission rule is actually different. The rule is that once you control a patron you may interact with it to place a token of your color on it, and you count as having VP based on how many tokens you have placed (only one token per patron).

My issue is that it says you count as having, say ten VPs if you have three tokens down. Let's say I have those three tokens out and then spend two of them for Jabba and now have 8. But then once I place another token it says I count as having twenty VPs. It seems to me that if I could spend those VP it would say I gained another 10 VP. Otherwise you have to count the difference and add that, which is a bit wonky. I think this VP is meant to be kept separate from the VPs you actually have gained.

-ryanjamal

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

 

From what I understand, "count as having VP" is simply a way of saying "temporarily, pretend it counts towards your score". Remember the game ends immediately once any player's got 40VP? That's what it's used for

 

But "pretend it counts towards your score" is not the same as "you actually have it and cannot lose it". So no you cannot spend it with Jabba since you do not actually have the VP

So basically we'll have to keep track of two different types of VP, and when they add up to 40, you win.

 

Three, don't forget that VPs from kills are more important for breaking ties than objective VPs.

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Okay, so I still don't understand the phrasing "count as having VP."  If you count as having that VP, can you spend it with Jabba for an ordered hit?

 

I'm helping to run a local tournament tomorrow and we wanted to use this map, so it would help if they put out the FAQ already.

-ryanjamal

 

From what I understand, "count as having VP" is simply a way of saying "temporarily, pretend it counts towards your score". Remember the game ends immediately once any player's got 40VP? That's what it's used for

 

But "pretend it counts towards your score" is not the same as "you actually have it and cannot lose it". So no you cannot spend it with Jabba since you do not actually have the VP

So basically we'll have to keep track of two different types of VP, and when they add up to 40, you win.

Three, don't forget that VPs from kills are more important for breaking ties than objective VPs.

If you end up with a tie, it is easy enough to track how many points you got just by counting figures that were killed, so two should suffice.

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No, I don't have official rulings, I arrived at that conclusion simply by its wordings in which you may not spend VPs from "count as having" 

 

Otherwise, how would you deal with this case?

 

Mission rule: A player that controls the patron count as having an additional 5VP

 

I control it with a rStormie

I spend 2VP with Jabba

You then killed my rStormie, I no longer control it

 

The explanation that makes the most sense to me is you flat out may not spend them

 

 

That is not how this mission works.  There is no mechanism for you to lose the patron VPs.  You only need control of the Patron to be able to interact with them - doing so places the token on the Patron.  From that point forward that token will remain on the Patron until end of game. 

 

The reason they state the rule the way they do is because the amount of VPs you get scales as you gain more Patrons.   This is needed because there isn't anything that prevents you from putting multiple tokens on a single patron, but they only want you to gain points for each patron that has at least 1 token (there is no point in putting a 2nd token on a patron).

 

 

I can see why you would argue that, since there's no way to lose those "count as having" VPs

 

But still there's difference between the two, say Darth Vader's map - Leave no evidence ("to gain 6 VP") vs. Lando's map - Priceless relics ("count as having an additional 6 VP")

 

For this map though I'd rule it as "You may not use Jabba to spend 2VP from your "count as having VP" pool". So you cannot use Order Hit just because you got 1 patron, but of course once you killed some dudes you can just say "I'll spend the 2VP from my "gained VP" pool"

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If you "count as having 2 points", doesn't that mean you have 2 points?

Was there something that said you can't spend those points?

 

I don't remember reading anything about there being a difference between "have" and "gain".

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If you "count as having 2 points", doesn't that mean you have 2 points?

Was there something that said you can't spend those points?

 

I don't remember reading anything about there being a difference between "have" and "gain".

well, (using same example as before) say we're playing on Lando's map

 

I control the relic with a rStorm, I "count as having 6VP" now

 

I spend 2VP for Jabba

 

You killed my rStorm, I no longer "count as having 6VP"

 

how much VP do I have? 0? -2?

 

Hence I conclude you cannot spend VPs from those "count as have" pool, they're used for score-counting purposes only

Edited by ricope

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You have 0.  There's a rule explicitly for that in the Jabba rulebook.

 

So I don't think you can use that reasoning to say you can't spend them.

Edited by DTDanix

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You have 0.  There's a rule explicitly for that in the Jabba rulebook.

 

So I don't think you can use that reasoning to say you can't spend them.

 

I disagree with that logic, iirc JR's rulebook simply says you may not go below 0. Otherwise now we're talking about "yay! free VP" from Lando/Obi map even the wording specifically said "count as having X VP" rather than "gain X VP". I'm certain that's not how it's intended to play out

 

Try to pretend "count as having" as one single English word rather than "having" vs. "gain"

 

Might be a good idea to send an inquiry to FFG though, I'm happy to be corrected but I for now I'd stand with my original interpretation

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If X counts as Y, usually that means that for most purposes X is equivalent to Y.  Then you would usually call out any differences.  Since the rules don't mention anything about this, I lean towards the side that there is no difference.

If you "count as having" points, then for all intents and purposes you have those points and they work like normal points unless something says otherwise.

 

Like, if some random game rule said "Claim 3 strain tokens, they count as VP." Then you would be able to spend them just like they were regular VP gained from kills.

 

I'm not sure what's so bad about your free VP scenario.

 

To me it seems like, as written, there is essentially no difference between regular VP and VP you count as having.

 

We should definitely get a rules answer to this.

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If you end up with a tie, it is easy enough to track how many points you got just by counting figures that were killed, so two should suffice.

Unless of course if you lost or spent points earlier in the game - to a command card or ability - at a time where you only had points from killed figures. There are quite a few abilities doing that and it will matter what kind points you spent/lost for solving draws.

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