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Flavorabledeez

Umm, yeah. About Scum and Villainy in Armada...

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Recently I struck up a thread about Armada adding a third faction. I suggested it might would be Scum and Villainy, since X-wing did just that. This thread was met with a lot of "that wouldn't make any sense, because Armada is about capital ship engagments and there's no pirate fleet like that in Star Wars that's canon."

I happened to agree with this in the end. But then being bored and doing some research I stumbled on "Gir Kybo Ren-Cha", a character from Star Wars Droids, where a lot of random things get pulled from and scattered into canon. Look up his Wookepedia page. Go ahead, I'll wait here.

Catch the bit about him stealing the Demolisher from Screed and having TIE squadrons for his own use?

Now this isn't one of those "booyah!! FACE!!" threads. I just want discussion and thoughts about this new found material. Something for a future campaign, perhaps?

Edited by Flavorabledeez

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If nothing else, I have to ask:


A Singular justifies a Fleet?

 

 

Because that's what you seem to be saying...

 

 

And if that's the case, why look to freaking Droids for that precedence, when the Errant Venture is right there.......

 

 

 

 

Other than that, I feel this was totally a "IN YOUR FACE" Thread.  Otehrwise why the snark to go read the Wiki page?

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If nothing else, I have to ask:

A Singular justifies a Fleet?

 

 

Because that's what you seem to be saying...

 

 

And if that's the case, why look to freaking Droids for that precedence, when the Errant Venture is right there.......

 

 

 

 

Other than that, I feel this was totally a "IN YOUR FACE" Thread.  Otehrwise why the snark to go read the Wiki page?

Thought we were going for canon. Errant Venture is legacy stuff now, correct? Seems a lot of folks rail against anything EU. The Gladiator class, specifically Demolisher, is lifted from Droids, so material from Droids has clearly been accepted as "okay" for this game.

Using this pirate as an idea for a future campaign I thought would be a good idea. Maybe introduce a boarding mechanic, and whoever is playing the pirates could use it to acquire new ships (really needs to be thought out though). Just something new for players to mess around with.

I'm not talking third faction here, guys. Just want to discuss the materials.

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If nothing else, I have to ask:

A Singular justifies a Fleet?

 

 

Because that's what you seem to be saying...

 

 

And if that's the case, why look to freaking Droids for that precedence, when the Errant Venture is right there.......

 

 

 

 

Other than that, I feel this was totally a "IN YOUR FACE" Thread.  Otehrwise why the snark to go read the Wiki page?

Thought we were going for canon. Errant Venture is legacy stuff now, correct? Seems a lot of folks rail against anything EU. The Gladiator class, specifically Demolisher, is lifted from Droids, so material from Droids has clearly been accepted as "okay" for this game.

Using this pirate as an idea for a future campaign I thought would be a good idea. Maybe introduce a boarding mechanic, and whoever is playing the pirates could use it to acquire new ships (really needs to be thought out though). Just something new for players to mess around with.

I'm not talking third faction here, guys. Just want to discuss the materials.

 

 

 

Droids is non-canon.  It is Legends

 

Assuming that one thing came out of it makes the whole lot legitimate is, at best, a flawed perspective.

 

The whole point of shifting things to legends was to cherry-pick the best of it, to become Canon in some way...  Not the Majority of it, not the most of it, not even the mostly good bits...  The best of it, only.

 

 

Take Thrawn, for example.

 

They Canonised Thrawn (in a similar format to them bringing Screed and Demolisher over)...

 

Does that mean the Katana Fleet, Garm Bel Iblis and C'boath are all more likely to come over?  Ysilimari did not, despite their proximity to Thrawn - they even did a nice little easter-egg with them to show that - but them themselves, no.

 

No.

 

Instead, Thrawn has a new set of stories, and a new backstory, one that is both fitting (and mostly yet to be revealed - to the point that Zahn is writing a new book on it...  Rather than just drawing from the Trilogy he did previously..._

 

 

Now, as I understand it, FFG doe snot have to limit themselves to canon, and honestly, FFG's use of something does not induce canonicity status, so the whole lot is moot in that regard...

 

 

If its got a place, FFG will use it.

 

We have precedents for thefts and boarding actions without looking for them.

 

 

Its just if you want to look at Boarding Actions and Ship thefts as a precedence...   Theres better places to look than Droids.   :D

Edited by Drasnighta

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We don't need boarding. Mon Cal ships could only be crewed by them and most Star destroyers troop compliment are too large.

Hey, now you're thinking! That sounds like the start to rules already! "Only certain size ships can be boarded."

Good thinking!

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BEHOLD! ONE SMALL PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT MAY JUSTIFY A FACTION INTO ARMADA!!!

 

LOOK AT ME! i'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE OF A BOOK!

 

FFG doesn't have to do anything. They don't have to add something to Armada because something is canon (where is the SSD?). This is entirely a "I'm right you're wrong" thread. Like Dras said, 1 ship does not make a fleet. And that ship is a small base anyway. Hardly enough to take on a fleet.

 

You would have been taken more seriously if you had posted your findings in the thread you made earlier. I get you want a discussion, but I see this as a passive-agressive post to everyone who didn't agree with you.

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If nothing else, I have to ask:

A Singular justifies a Fleet?

Because that's what you seem to be saying...

And if that's the case, why look to freaking Droids for that precedence, when the Errant Venture is right there.......

Other than that, I feel this was totally a "IN YOUR FACE" Thread. Otehrwise why the snark to go read the Wiki page?

Thought we were going for canon. Errant Venture is legacy stuff now, correct? Seems a lot of folks rail against anything EU. The Gladiator class, specifically Demolisher, is lifted from Droids, so material from Droids has clearly been accepted as "okay" for this game.

Using this pirate as an idea for a future campaign I thought would be a good idea. Maybe introduce a boarding mechanic, and whoever is playing the pirates could use it to acquire new ships (really needs to be thought out though). Just something new for players to mess around with.

I'm not talking third faction here, guys. Just want to discuss the materials.

Droids is non-canon. It is Legends

Assuming that one thing came out of it makes the whole lot legitimate is, at best, a flawed perspective.

The whole point of shifting things to legends was to cherry-pick the best of it, to become Canon in some way... Not the Majority of it, not the most of it, not even the mostly good bits... The best of it, only.

Take Thrawn, for example.

They Canonised Thrawn (in a similar format to them bringing Screed and Demolisher over)...

Does that mean the Katana Fleet, Garm Bel Iblis and C'boath are all more likely to come over? Ysilimari did not, despite their proximity to Thrawn - they even did a nice little easter-egg with them to show that - but them themselves, no.

No.

Instead, Thrawn has a new set of stories, and a new backstory, one that is both fitting (and mostly yet to be revealed - to the point that Zahn is writing a new book on it... Rather than just drawing from the Trilogy he did previously..._

Now, as I understand it, FFG doe snot have to limit themselves to canon, and honestly, FFG's use of something does not induce canonicity status, so the whole lot is moot in that regard...

If its got a place, FFG will use it.

We have precedents for thefts and boarding actions without looking for them.

Its just if you want to look at Boarding Actions and Ship thefts as a precedence... Theres better places to look than Droids. :D

There's a lot here that's just wasted effort.

FFG pulled the Demolisher straight from Droids. This pirate used that ship as his flagship. I'm not making wild jumps for any conclusions here.

Now, if your intent here is to bash on Droids as a show then I'm all about it. It's unwatchable garbage. But it did give us the Gladiator (for better or worse), and it could give us a campaign with some different playstyles, which from what everyone has been saying about CC is a huge part of the draw.

Edited by Flavorabledeez

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Alright, dudes. There have been some dickholes up in this joint of late, so we're all a bit testy (see what I did there?).

But can we ease up on the sass a bit?

Flavorable has been pretty polite on the whole (particularly in this thread), and while I'm all about shutting down cries for a third faction before they take root, running people with unpopular opinions off the boards just because it's been a bad week for trolls doesn't represent us well, nor does it do anything to help build the community.

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So there are lots of individual instances of pirate groups taking various Imperial and other warships.  That's not in doubt.

The issue is that those groups don't then join up together.  Black Sun isn't gathering big groups of stolen warships together, and if they did they still wouldn't be a serious threat to a properly organized navy in anything less than a hugely overwhelming force.

 

The only group doing this sort of thing is the Rebellion, and primarily they're restoring older mothballed ships or even getting dockyards in Rebel Alliance territory to repurpose new civilian ships for combat.

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Really not necessary to have scum and villainy as a faction.  Already established precedent with the Rogues and Villains expansion, which includes most of the actually canon resources anyways.  Could have some resources that could be used by both sides (have a rebel card/version and an imperial one, rather than A/B or I/II versions).  Besides, there are no canon scum ships as far as I'm aware.

 

Boarding is not really practical.  A ship would have to be essentially dead in space to be effectively boarded, at which point you have to be able to close in and move essentially 0.  It's impractical during regular gameplay.

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Alright, dudes. There have been some dickholes up in this joint of late, so we're all a bit testy (see what I did there?).

But can we ease up on the sass a bit?

Flavorable has been pretty polite on the whole (particularly in this thread), and while I'm all about shutting down cries for a third faction before they take root, running people with unpopular opinions off the boards just because it's been a bad week for trolls doesn't represent us well, nor does it do anything to help build the community.

Thanks, man. I'm really trying not to be jerky here, cause I get what the community has experienced lately.

But let me clear this up: I relinquish my thoughts for a third faction. If asked, I'll agree that Armada is best when looking at different eras in the Star Wars Universe and pitting two factions... ahem...TWO factions against each other. I'm good with them exhausting the Empire vs Rebels, then moving to two more factions such as First Order vs Resistance, then on to something else like CIS vs Republic.

With that said, I think campaigns can take this game outside of the norm, and therefore the pirate idea would make for a fun campaign. Introduce a few new mechanics that shake up the playstyles, but said mechanics wouldn't see use outside of this campaign.

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I think working a 3rd mini faction into a campaign setting could happen if CC is not a one-and-done experiment.  It's always possible they could fall back onto Clone Wars or in a few years get a new faction or enough support for a scum faction from new movies.

 

All of which are relative longshots tho.. 

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I think working a 3rd mini faction into a campaign setting could happen if CC is not a one-and-done experiment.  It's always possible they could fall back onto Clone Wars or in a few years get a new faction or enough support for a scum faction from new movies.

 

All of which are relative longshots tho..

I hope CC isn't a one and done thing. It's the kind of thing I always wanted in X-wing, but that game just couldn't depict the scope needed for a meaningful campaign.

Armada nails it.

Not to change the subject, but haven't most players experienced a renewed (or new) interest in the game due to CC?

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I think that having a third and (more likely) a fourth (or more) faction is not out of the question. My thought is that if/when they do it they will have for lack of a better word a sub-faction. What I mean by that is a faction that can be played by itself but also combined with one of the main factions, below is a list of every faction that (according to http://www.ign.com/wikis/star-wars/Factions)are all the factions approved by Disney. Now looking over the list some are much less likely than others to ever get made, but I could also see some like the First Order being made as I said a sub-faction.

 

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We don't need boarding. Mon Cal ships could only be crewed by them and most Star destroyers troop compliment are too large.

Hey, now you're thinking! That sounds like the start to rules already! "Only certain size ships can be boarded."

Good thinking!

 

 

Nah, it's so easy to capture an ISD a farm boy could do it.

 

All you have to do is blow a hole in the stern of the ISD, fly an X-wing inside the ISD and have it shoot up the primary reactors causing the crew to panic and abandon ship, land Rebels troops and engineers on the ISD and eject the reactors just before they explode (causing the fleeing Imperials to believe the ISD has been destroyed), and then spend weeks trying to jury rig power systems while dealing with sabotage from Imperial special ops storm troopers sneaking about the ship.

 

easy 

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To be honest I wouldn't mind if they do end up going a third faction (not saying they will) doing something like a scum faction and giving them both CIS/old Republic ships to them as a kind of we have purchased the old relics that are no longer "militarily viable" and modded them up to spec... (FFG already have the croc to pull as a flotilla now...) would be a good way to see things like the lucrehulk and acclimators come into the game I guess....  

  Again all that said I don't think that will happen, at least not anytime soon, but I would be happy to see it.

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If the Rebels were able to bring together ships big enough to fight, no, harass the Empire then why couldn't a criminal organisation? The Hutts have the funds to purchase ships and hire crews, so does black sun. Numerous pirate groups have modified smaller vessels. I cant think of anything similar in size to an ISD but plenty that would give a lone VSD or a bunch of frigates/corvettes trouble.

 

I'm not opposed to a third faction, but I am opposed to a 3rd faction just for more ship sales, it would need to "work" thematically and in gameplay. Also balancing another faction in Armada could be difficult.

 

And if you don't hate me enough already, I would like to see a Traitor (defector) VSD for the Rebels.

Edited by Teloch

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Was this comment worth creating a new thread for? Why can't this be amended to the discussion already in progress?

 

Remember that Wave 0 was created before we had a lot of new canon material for Star Wars, so there was very little official. New canon has been superseding legends things, so don't expect to see those pirates again anywhere close to Canon.

 

Also Ren Cha was essentially using the Demolisher like a super-sized version of a large ship from X-Wing: Smuggling, racketeering, and protecting his own interests. If you want to enter an Armada game with the Demolisher vs an entire Imperial battle group including VSDs and TIE Defenders, you're welcome to do so. But don't be surprised if you find that setup completely unbalanced.

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