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ak-73

Reflection Time

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Hey!

 

 

This might have better gone into the 1E forum but... with the license and the community winding down, I guess this would be the time to look back, reminisce and share some thoughts.

 

Dark Heresy has had a bloody good run. And following game lines did too. Was Dark Heresy one of the (if not THE) roleplaying game of the 00s? (Carrying over to some degree into the 10s.)

Sure this is a biased crowd here but I am not sure any other game has had the impact that DH had. Maybe FATE, although I feel it's only exploding now.

 

But I feel the game that has had the biggest impact (not system-wise, mind you) on role-playing since D&D 3E/Pathfinder was Dark Heresy. A lot of it harkens back to BI, of course, and WFRP before it but overall FFG has done a pretty good job on these games (excluding RAW Squad Modes in DW, what a rushed job that was). Certainly 40K RPG has been upping the ante when it comes to layout and presentation. It was bleeding, cutting edge throughout its run. The system turned out to be very solid, leaning clearly towards the gamist side of the spectrum. Some issues at higher ranks with talent spam, especially in DH 1E, though. Probably the biggest issue of these games.

 

A round of applause from me for Ross Watson and everybody at FFG who has been involved in these games. :D

I also enjoyed how responsive FFG has been to player feedback in the months right after publication. It's good business policy and good for the fans. Could they have done more from a gamer's perspective? Sure. Would that have been economical? Probably not.

 

But yeah I would like to know your thoughts if DH has been the most impactful RPG of the 00s and beyond. What other game would be a contender? Surely not D&D 4E, except in terms of sales. Pathfinder is a 3E spin-off, so I don't count it (though it's impact is undisputed). Vampire has fallen into obscurity, as has RIFTS, Shadowrun is still doing what it does.

 

 

So, yeah, thanks again, FFG! I'm a fan.

 

 

Alex

Edited by ak-73

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Hi Alex,

 

Your blog looks great. I'm part of a community that is trying to port everyone, across all 40kRPG systems over to Roll for Heresy so we can keep the community together. Your stuff is just the kind of content we'd like to host over there as well as have you join us on our forums. The forums look a bit quiet at the moment, they were busier but over Christmas the site unexpectedly got taken down and the creator only had an older mirror to restore, so we're in the process of getting everybody back. Please come join us so we can help keep these awesome games alive!

 

As to your post, I can't comment as 40kRPGs are the only pen and paper RPGs I play. What I will say though is that the world needs these games ;)

 

All the best,

 

Gregor

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I love the Calaxis Sector, it's where I started playing roleplaying games.

 

I'm currently going through DH1 again to pick out setting materials and codify all the mechanical stuff into seperate documents, and it's surprising how much you miss when you're young.

 

I never knew Pleasure Worlds were under the scope of Imperial World origin in the core, or that if you get 400 xp past beginning xp you get a month's income.

 

Lots of interesting statements about the sector/setting made through mechanics.

 

I never notices characteristic advancement costs were all different for the careers. Tech priests don't have Fel and Clerics seem to have the cheapest scheme (all base 100 and 250).

 

I'll be interested to see what else I find out.

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Hi Alex,

 

Your blog looks great. I'm part of a community that is trying to port everyone, across all 40kRPG systems over to Roll for Heresy so we can keep the community together. Your stuff is just the kind of content we'd like to host over there as well as have you join us on our forums. The forums look a bit quiet at the moment, they were busier but over Christmas the site unexpectedly got taken down and the creator only had an older mirror to restore, so we're in the process of getting everybody back. Please come join us so we can help keep these awesome games alive!

 

As to your post, I can't comment as 40kRPGs are the only pen and paper RPGs I play. What I will say though is that the world needs these games ;)

 

All the best,

 

Gregor

 

 

Gregor, I am currently working on publishing my own game, so I don't think I can be very active myself. But feel free to port over anything you want to from that site, in particular the unofficial forum-based errata'd stuff and the Squad Mode clarifications. You will find that I linked to each clarification for DW that was posted on DW the forum by a staff member, so NONE of that is a houserule made up by me. I recommend you secure some evidence for posterity in case someone doubts the veracity of these erratas.

 

I have included on the site as a whole a few select things that are not mine, make sure you ask the respective creators whether you may port it over to Roll For Heresy. (For example Lynatas interesting combat system.)

 

Good luck and all the best!

 

Alex

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Thanks AK, I appreciate the offer and will look into doing that. At some point if you ever get back into running 40k games, please come pay us a visit and tell us all about it ;)

 

I just tried to register at RFH but it told me I can't due to email domain. Don't know what's wrong with @t-online.de...

 

Alex

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Thanks AK, I appreciate the offer and will look into doing that. At some point if you ever get back into running 40k games, please come pay us a visit and tell us all about it ;)

 

I just tried to register at RFH but it told me I can't due to email domain. Don't know what's wrong with @t-online.de...

 

Alex

 

 

Ah ha! Thanks for the headsup. This was an issue that was fixed before the site went down,looks like the mirror doesn't include that fix. I'll ping the site creator about it and get it sorted.

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Hmm. Dark Heresy certainly was special, and in retrospect I can't believe how many years have passed. I know some people criticised the line for stopping to deliver content, but considering how many more books have been published than for other P&P RPGs, I'd say that sounds more like people being jaded and having exaggerated expectations (which seems to be a thing in gaming these days).
 
As such, I'd certainly agree that the 40k product lines stand out, even if I have to add the caveat that much of it could be due to the popularity of the franchise and a big budget expecting success, rather than the game itself. Don't get me wrong: the quality of the books was phenomenal at times (the proofreading not so much :P), but I could say the same about other RPGs that have not generated nearly as much success.
 
Would Dark Heresy and its sister lines been as great if they had used a different, custom setting? I doubt it, but this has more to do with a general decline in tabletop gaming interest rather than Dark Heresy itself being mediocre. I would still call it a great game, but it might be unfair towards many smaller games to attribute its popularity to the game alone.
 
For the game certainly had its problems, too. You mentioned Talent spam, which is a good example, but I also have to bring up my eternal pet peeve, Toughness Bonus as skin armour, which ultimately resulted in common 40k weapons falling into obscurity on higher levels, as well as FFG desperately scrambling to patch in various band-aids (Felling quality, segregated Horde modes) with later books. And then there also were some hideous instances of power creep (Lathe worlds anyone?), but this is a fairly common problem the more books you release for a series, so I wouldn't hold it against the product line as a whole.
 
There was also the missed opportunity of cross-game compatibility and/or the creation of a uniform ruleset that would allow all sorts of characters to play alongside one another (as it often happens in the stories), but this is a simple matter of preferences, and I know that some players preferred a more "focused" approach where each game is tailored towards its chosen protagonists in rules, genre and style.
 
In closing, I'd like to add my thanks for all the fun I've had with these books. Though I expect to continue having fun for many years to come -- after all, this isn't like some MMO where they shut down the servers and you can never play anymore. ;)

 

A round of applause from me for Ross Watson and everybody at FFG who has been involved in these games. :D

 

And Kate Flack, Owen Barnes and Mike Mason and the rest of the good folks at Black Industries for writing the Dark Heresy core rulebook in the first place, starting everything before FFG picked it up. :P

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Well, it's not like any of the books mentioned the Squa

 

A friend of mine is convinced that the manufacurer class thing in the Lathe Worlds is FFG's subtle attempt at them. Since they got squashed by the heavy gravity.

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On a more serious note, squats were explicitly mentioned in the 6th edition tabletop rulebook's list of sanctioned abhuman species, so ...

 

Oooo interesting.

 

There was a Squat in the Inquisition War novels but I don't know where that lined up against 3rd edition.

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There was a Squat in the Inquisition War novels but I don't know where that lined up against 3rd edition.

 

That was my first 40k novel ever! So good, even if it was rather cheesy at times.

 

 

Lovely description, incredibly poor execution in terms of plot for me. That and Jaq's relationship with his assassin was...strange and unhealthy at best.

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Especially since it seems to have become some sort of trope for Black Library novels.

 

Eisenhorn and Ravenor were fine, subtle. Caiphus Cain was cheesy but not in a weird way.

 

Jaq just made it way too much of a thing.

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Especially since it seems to have become some sort of trope for Black Library novels.

 

Eisenhorn and Ravenor were fine, subtle. Caiphus Cain was cheesy but not in a weird way.

 

Jaq just made it way too much of a thing.

Cheesey is kinda the point of Ciaphas Cain anyway :P

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I'll admit that my relationship with the 40K RPG line as a whole is a bit mixed but my friends and I certainly dig it. There's a lot to be said about having any entire RPG devoted to a specific setting and I will easily put this system alongside Call of Cthulhu for creating a great atmosphere that is evocative of the source material. The phenomenal art certainly helped with that and just the little bits and pieces of flavour text littered through the books certainly gave me that grimdark feel.

 

I have to say though that the system as a whole peaked with Dark Heresy (both editions) and Only War. I have had tonnes of fun with RT, DW, and BC but those lines are where the system broke down under the weight of its own rules. Mind you, considering the utter ridiculous of the hijinks that I have experienced with those systems, I definitely can't say it was all bad. Getting down and dirty as humans in either the Inquisition or the Guard worked just right.

 

Having gone back and played WFRP 2E, I have to give credit to both BI and FFG for continuing to support and develop the 40K system. It's a gamer's game first and foremost which I appreciate amongst the sea of narrative games that seem to be popular at the moment. While the combat mechanics were wonky as hell in places, I appreciate what they did and the fact that combat wasn't always just attacking and waiting like D&D.

 

But yeah I would like to know your thoughts if DH has been the most impactful RPG of the 00s and beyond. What other game would be a contender? Surely not D&D 4E, except in terms of sales. Pathfinder is a 3E spin-off, so I don't count it (though it's impact is undisputed). Vampire has fallen into obscurity, as has RIFTS, Shadowrun is still doing what it does.

 

I wouldn't say the DH is the most impactful RPG of the last decade. It carved out its own niche and sat quite comfortably when doing it's own thing. If I had to pick anything as the most influential RPG, I'd probably go for either Fate or Apocalypse World for really energising the wave of narrative games that are being created.

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Eisenhorn and Ravenor were fine, subtle. Caiphus Cain was cheesy but not in a weird way.

 

Jaq just made it way too much of a thing.

 

Wasn't there another Inquisitor who also was sleeping with "his" Callidus girl, too?

 

Cain's cheese is okay if you keep in mind that he is an unreliable narrator rather than taking his claims for gospel. I still wish GW had outed him as a Captain of Koepenick kind of scam, though, who found his Commissar's uniform in a dumpster and then just got dragged along. :P

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 Wasn't there another Inquisitor who also was sleeping with "his" Callidus girl, too?

 

 

Dunno, probably? I mean it's not like Calidus are told to not do that sort of thing. It's another way to a target and information.

 

I think the most successful kind of relationships in the galaxy are understated. When I ran Haarlock's Legacy I had Arkadia and Jonas (from spectre cell 17 I renamed it 13 because of the theme) in a relationship. Came up once because she was flirted with and she mentioned she already had a boyfriend. And when they got through Tattered Fates which I threw her in with the party Jonas thanked the party for keeping her safe.

 

It wasn't a focal point or important at all, it was just a thing.

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