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Nikolishin

The Bossk double attack

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You've sort of just left this list here without really explaining what it is that you want it to achieve....

 

I'm guessing the idea is that you have both IG-D and gunner on bossk so that he always gets that second shot if you miss when he is firing in arc (using the mangler cannon) and in his auxilary arc with gunner. But if you want to do that why not just take Moralo Eval with a either mangler and HLC and IG-D. That saves the list 5 points off the bat because you get to use IG-Bs ability on Moralo in the full 180 degree arc. You also save one crew slot with which you could use one of scums brilliantly cheap crew - Zuckuss, 4-Lom, Boba etc. It will also give you the points to upgrade IG-Bs mangler to an HLC.

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Saw this list on Reddit yesterday and it is nasty.

 

The idea is to use IG88B to Tractor beam someone into range 1 of Bossk and reduce agility.

 

Then bossk shoots something that is going to be hard to hit. Use Dengar to re-roll any hits hopefully into not hits. You miss and Bossk's Gunner and IG88B's ability trigger. 

 

Then you shoot the at the reduced agility target with the IG88B trigger and then shoot it again with gunner for a possible 8 hits (Mangler crit into 2 hits with bossk ability) or luck it on primary hoping for a crit for 10 hits at range 1?

 

Confirmed by FFG as working as intended  and used to good affect at a recent regional.

 

Nasty I say.

Edited by Aces1973

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Saw this list on Reddit yesterday and it is nasty.

 

The idea is to use IG88B to Tractor beam someone into range 1 of Bossk and reduce agility.

 

Then bossk shoots something that is going to be hard to hit. Use Dengar to re-roll any hits hopefully into not hits. You miss and Bossk's Gunner and IG88B's ability trigger. 

 

Then you shoot the at the reduced agility target with the IG88B trigger and then shoot it again with gunner for a possible 8 hits (Mangler crit into 2 hits with bossk ability) or luck it on primary hoping for a crit for 10 hits at range 1?

 

Confirmed by FFG as working as intended  and used to good affect at a recent regional.

 

Nasty I say.

 

So are you saying that this is legal?...

 

Shot 1 from Bossk does not hit, this triggers the IG88B ability for...

Shot 2 from a secondary weapon which hits, Gunner has also been triggered by Shot 1 not hitting resulting in...

Shot 3 from a primary weapon.

 

I'm asking because Gunner says this...

'After you perform an attack that does not hit, you may immediately perform a primary weapon attack. You cannot perform another attack this round'

 

and the IG88B ability says this...

'Once per round, after you perform an attack that does not hit, you may perform an attack with an equipped secondary weapon.'

 

How immediate is 'immediately'?

To me the gunner shot would have to take place immediately after Shot 1 not hitting, so this would be before the IG88B ability shot.

If this is the case and Shot 2 was the gunner shot and it hit the IG88B ability wouldn't trigger.

EDIT... in fact you could never do the IG88B ability shot as the gunner shot has to be the last attack this round.

 

Please prove me wrong as I'd like to give a similar build with Moralo instead of Bossk a run out.

Edited by Dereksson

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Because of the timing chart you can chose the IG second shot or the gunner second shot to go second. So you just have to specify that the IG second shot is going by using the mangler, then shoot your primary weapon.  The redit article lays out the timing and he cut and pasted the email response from FFG confirming it works that way.  It is a very ugly combo, but it would require you to be good at flying the YV-666 as if anyone gets behind you, your done.

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Yeah, both would trigger in Step 9 of the Timing Chart for attacks, and the rule of you can choose the order of effects when things activate at the same time means both effects would activate in step 9 of the first attack. As far as tweaks, you could use adaptability to drop Bossk's PS to 6, allowing for the interaction you are looking for. Bossk tends to go down fast (I'd imagine once the opponent realizes he's doing 3 attacks a turn, he'll be even more of target) so I worry about IG-88B after Bossk goes down. If you use adaptability to drop the PS instead, and you drop GlitterStim, you can fit HLC instead of Mangler Cannon. That allows B to be a threat even after Bossk bites the bullet. 

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I would still wait for a FAQ before I ruled it official. E-mails have gotten it wrong. If you look at the wording of gunner, is states "immediately" after an attack that doesn't hit. I would say because you decided on useing IG's ability, you missed the opportunity to use gunner. Just my 2 cents

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It's cute, but it doesn't work as per the new timing chart:

 

Step 9: Identify abilities that trigger “after attacking” or “after defending” that perform an attack (such as BTL-A4 Y-wing, Dengar [ship], Gunner, etc.)

i. Player with initiative chooses 1 of his abilities to resolve
ii. If no ability was chosen in step (i), the other player chooses 1 of his abilities to resolve
iii. Any abilities that were not chosen, are added to the step 9 of the next attack

 

Essentially you're limited to one extra attack ability per attack. Although you can shoot, miss, IG88B, miss, then gunner. That's a pretty big waste of points though for essentially one damaging attack.

In conclusion, if you want to shoot multiple times with ships, just play TIE/Ds. 

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I would say until it is in the FAQ as not working then it works. What more can you do than get written proof from FFG before it is in the FAQ?

 

It has now been asked by various people (including Regional tournament TO's) and given the go ahead.

 

Hoping it stays as it only works with one combo and I can take it to a hanger bay tournament as a second list :)

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I would still wait for a FAQ before I ruled it official. E-mails have gotten it wrong. If you look at the wording of gunner, is states "immediately" after an attack that doesn't hit. I would say because you decided on useing IG's ability, you missed the opportunity to use gunner. Just my 2 cents

Right, but let's go with another scenario. If, for instance, I have Fire-Control System and Gunner on a Phantom, FCS allows me to gain a target lock after I attack, so naturally I would choose to use that effect first. If what you are saying is true, then I can't use Gunner to attack with my target lock, because it wasn't "immediately" after an attack. i.e. I used another effect before using Gunner, so I can't use Gunner. That means Buzzsaw Whisper wasn't supposed to work the way it did. Same could be said for Captain Rex or Operations Specialist that are coming out. If Gunner is really supposed to mean you can't do anything else except attack again, no matter what other effects you may have, then it really should be cheaper than 5 points.

 

Just because the effect you are choosing to use before Gunner happens to be another attack, does not mean that it is not "immediately after" as you are suggesting. The way effects work, it is immediately after in the timing chart, it just doesn't feel that way because you are going through another whole attack before getting to the Gunner attack. Sure, they will likely errata something to make this not possible anymore, but until that time, let Bossk enjoy some table time getting 3 attacks in a turn. He still dies quickly anyway.

 

EDIT: Also remember that Gunner came out long before the timing chart or many other cards and effects that allow for additional attacks, so the wording is reminiscent of that time during the X-Wing universe.  

Edited by Raven19528

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Just run a standard IG-88B and Moralo. Moralo makes it nearly impossible to get out of arc. I think double HLC is the way to go. If they get range 1 you still get gunner if you miss for a second primary attack and you can shoot the HLC at something else at range if it's available, it gives you more punching power. I think this list could be pretty funny. You don't really need the Tractor Beam, but you could run that over Crack Shot if you really wanted to I guess. With Moralo, keeping things in arc should still be easy without the Tractor Beam.

 

An alternate version would be to run Trick Shot on IG-88 instead of Crack Shot and run Hotshot Copilot instead of Dengar. You get less dice modifications both to help you miss and to help you hit afterwards, but you basically force them to try to evade the first attack with their focus and you will strip a ton of tokens for IG-88 to follow up on since they are both 6s.

 

MORALO JANK

100 points

 

PILOTS

Moralo Eval (50)
YV-666 (34), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), IG-88D (1), Gunner (5), Dengar (3)

IG88-B (50)
Aggressor (36), Crack Shot (1), Fire-Control System (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Glitterstim (2), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)

 

eye_sm.png View | upload_sm.png Tweak | export_sm.png Export as XWS

Edited by Hoffburger

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On 1/11/2017 at 9:11 PM, CRCL said:

It's cute, but it doesn't work as per the new timing chart:

 

 

Essentially you're limited to one extra attack ability per attack. Although you can shoot, miss, IG88B, miss, then gunner. That's a pretty big waste of points though for essentially one damaging attack.

In conclusion, if you want to shoot multiple times with ships, just play TIE/Ds. 

The Reddit post I think had it laid out differently actually.  

The way the reddit post made it sound like, once you shoot and miss with Bossk on the primary attack (first shot), IG-88B and Gunner both trigger.  Because of the way the timing rules work now, you can choose which effect to do when.  Not only that, IG-88B doesn't say on the same target, so you can effectively switch the target to the closer one, shoot the Cannon, and even if that hits, you still get the Gunner effect from Bossk and you get to shoot again with Bossk too, again at the closer target because Gunner doesn't state it has to attack the same target again.    

 

And the way the rules are laid out, it seems like it does work. 

Step 9, rule 1:
i. Player with initiative chooses 1 of his abilities to resolve

Gunner and IG-88 are on the stack from a missed attack, triggering Step 9.  I choose, per S9R1 to put IG-88 on the stack and roll for that attack.  IG-88 triggers an attack which now enabled Step 9, rule 3 to be implemented since I did not choose Gunner during S9R1 and Gunner is still available but not chosen.  

iii. Any abilities that were not chosen, are added to the step 9 of the next attack

Because IG-88 triggered an attack (the next attack), and Gunner was not chosen, now Gunner is added to Step 9 of the IG-88 attack.  

I believe the rules are very clear (per this version of the FAQ) this is allowed exactly as it has been laid out by the reddit post.  

Edited by Daefish

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