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Nheko

[RPG] Hantei Bushi suggestions

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Hi guys I am tempted to play a Hantei Bushi and I would like to ask the people who have played or "gm'ed" one if they have suggestions on playing this school.

Edited by Nheko

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Hi guys I am tempted to play a Hantei Bushi and I would like to ask the people who have played or "gm'ed" one if they have suggestions on playing this school.

its kind of a weird school.

While this school is very powerful vs nonhuman foes, and still very good against humans it suffers from having to use a power build on your PC.

Where Hantei was clearly a powerful Kami he was almost defeated by Akodo.

What I mean by this is you will be spreading your stats thin to make it work where Hantei was a god with god stats.

 

Now that all said Hantei never trained anyone to use this school feeling that there was no one worthy to wielded it.

So you would have to be in "The Togashi Dynasty" or some other alternate setting to be able to take it.

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Thank you very much for your response. We're planning to start playing the Heroes of Rokugan 4, and I was thinking of playing one while the other player will be creating a Chise Shugenja (Seppun Shugenja from IH2).

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It was a pretty thoughtlessly created school, I wouldn't recommend playing it.

It just isn't the kind of school that would have arisen naturally out of having a good story in mind, conceptualizing how they are interacting with the other clans and creating characters and then basing the school on those characters...

It was more of a "man, we have pretty much burned out all we can do with the mechanics. Isn't there any niche we haven't covered yet"?

And then someone suggested "nonhuman" and so all the schools in that chapter were built with every single ability interacting exclusively with non-humans, to a FAAAR greater extent than the Crab schools deal with the Shadowlands.

Its just overall... not designed to actually be functionally played, it was just... they ran out of ideas and so grabbed from the bottom of the barrel and ran way, way too far with it.

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3 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

It was a pretty thoughtlessly created school, I wouldn't recommend playing it.

It just isn't the kind of school that would have arisen naturally out of having a good story in mind, conceptualizing how they are interacting with the other clans and creating characters and then basing the school on those characters...

It was more of a "man, we have pretty much burned out all we can do with the mechanics. Isn't there any niche we haven't covered yet"?

And then someone suggested "nonhuman" and so all the schools in that chapter were built with every single ability interacting exclusively with non-humans, to a FAAAR greater extent than the Crab schools deal with the Shadowlands.

Its just overall... not designed to actually be functionally played, it was just... they ran out of ideas and so grabbed from the bottom of the barrel and ran way, way too far with it.

While I agree with almost everything you are saying, I see an underlining reason for the school.

Power- the school is the fighting style of the heavens. if you remove the Non-human restrictions the power level of the school goes through the roof.

and Hantei's school is one of those we haven't done it yet thing.

The reason  I think the Non-human restriction was added was to tone it down to the level of other schools, but to still be able to have the Hantei school in the game for players who play during the dawn of the empire and want to have  an alternate history where Hantei teaches it to his children.

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29 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

While I agree with almost everything you are saying, I see an underlining reason for the school.

Power- the school is the fighting style of the heavens. if you remove the Non-human restrictions the power level of the school goes through the roof.

and Hantei's school is one of those we haven't done it yet thing.

The reason  I think the Non-human restriction was added was to tone it down to the level of other schools, but to still be able to have the Hantei school in the game for players who play during the dawn of the empire and want to have  an alternate history where Hantei teaches it to his children.

 

By no means did I mean to argue that the school should be stronger.

Rather, let's say we insist that something about Hantei's character, what little he could be said to have, would indicate that if he weren't emperor, he would dedicate himself to eradicating nonhumans (and somehow be less successful than if no clan was doing this.) Now, I know nothing in the book indicated they were on some sort of inquisition style eradication campaign... except the fact that more of their techniques are about destroying them than the Crab have techniques for killing Shadowlands creatures....

Okay, even in that case I would say the techniques should be written as...

Does A, if the opponent is non-human then ALSO does B.

So basically it would be half-powered against a human opponent, which is the opponent they are going to have to be using their techniques against more often anyway.

 

But, moreover, I have to question whether "non-human inquisition" is the most sensible thing to assign to Hantei anyway. Every other Great Clan is really defined by the traits of the Kami that founded them-- or, more honestly, the disposition and traits assigned to the Kami were based on the clans that had already been created. So you have to work backwards with Hantei. He is primarily defined by just being "the first" and "the emperor", but it seems to me that the one thing one can say about Hantei that might be unique about him being on the throne and would be different if it had been any other Kami would be the interaction and embrace of Shinsei and his teachings. You have this strange traveler who comes through the land, requests a meeting with the Emperor-- and not only does he meet with this traveler, he secludes himself with the traveler for several days to absorb the teachings

I just don't think that would have gone down the same way had it been any other Kami on the throne. And particularly if you are going to go with an Owl as the clan symbol... Owl represents wisdom (maybe not in Japan, but let's face it-- its not the Japanese interpretations of the animals when it comes to any clan), being able to navigate the darkness and being quite perceptive. That all fits the idea of them being a primarily an intellectual, religiously devout clan...

So if you say, well... what should a Hantei Bushi be.... I am thinking something that seems to draw a bit from Shintao Monks. Presuming the Hantei family didn't just straight up become a monasteric order all together with Hantei's spirit being passed down through teachings far more than genes.

Now, I know, granted-- Hantei did wound the moon and in the main universe he defeated all but Togashi in the duels, so maybe him living on in a monasteric order isn't completely fitting, but then I would still go back to devout, holy samurai focused on wisdom, gathering of knowledge and introspection and from that gaining their power.

So it really feels to me the whole "they chase around tengu and naga and kitsune, learning how to kill them while not at all learning any techniques that can be effective against other samurai" just seems... off-base. It feels much more like someone had the idea of a non-human school and decided to just plug it into Hantei whether it fit or not. I suppose if we were to say... well... Lord Moon and his fellow Kami count as non-human, so his specific non-human slaying techniques are what gave him the edge, you can sort of make it work. But, really, it seems to me that both cases could really have just been explained through the fact that Hantei was the only one who really got to train his swordsmanship much at all-- none of the other Kami were particularly martially-inclined (or were of the slower, tougher sort if they were) so there really is no need to attribute his victories in this case to any special techniques that humans and shadowlands tainted things are immune to, but Kitsu are not.

The non-human tag was even used where it absolutely should not have been! Every single samurai school gets the ability to use attacks as simple actions at some rank, this is the only school where you are only able to do that... if you are fighting non-human opponents. Your opponent's physiological nature determines the speed at which you can attack.

 

And I feel where it gets especially egregious is the Owl Clan Diplomat whose focus is entirely on getting bonuses on social rolls with non-humans. Like, every single technique at every single level is just getting bonuses with non-humans. And we are to understand that these are the diplomats representing a Great Clan in the courts?... You know, where there are no non-humans to speak of? The Seppun Shugenja the same-- again, just extra bonus against non-humans while using combat spells. But I suppose those are outside of the realm of what we are discussing.

 

I really cannot help but feel that if they were going to tackle the idea of a Hantei Great Clan, they could have done far better than scrapping the bottom of the proverbial barrel for some random theme they hadn't done that and then forcing that one thing to be the singular focus of every single technique of every single rank of every single school. NONE of the Great Clans have a focus so narrow, shallow or useless. There are thematic elements that synchronize the families, but no other clan is so utterly focused on one particularly type of opponent that they effectively have no techniques when dealing with anyone else.

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1 hour ago, tenchi2a said:

Power- the school is the fighting style of the heavens. if you remove the Non-human restrictions the power level of the school goes through the roof.

It isn't, surprisingly. Rank 1 would be good, because +6/7 Armor TN is nice. Rank 2 would depend on your Void economy, and potentially quite handy. Rank 3 would be a bad SAA. Rank 4 is just a rehash of Rank 2 anyway. Rank 5 has no special non-human restrictions.  So the School would burn out after Rank 2 anyway, rely on Alternate Paths for Rank 3 and 4 to remain competent, and then max out at 'OK' level upon reaching Rank 5. 

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