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Tirisilex

Chirrut Îmwe

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What if the Force won't allow someone to perish until their DESTINY has been fulfilled. 

How many times could Luke, Leia, Han, and even Vader survive so many terrific situations?

--> As many times as the Force needed to keep 'em alive until their Destiny was fulfilled. 

 

Once each Rogue One hero completed their primary purpose (per the Force), they bite dust. Would the Force intervene? Would the stuff that binds all of us together have some proportional influence on our actions (or the actions of others)? Maybe this is why Stormtroopers' blasters miss so comically against our primary heroes, yet they've no problem with other targets as part of a vast military regime.

 

If one were to "see" the Force in this way, like a Taoist flow of purposeful energy, one might start chanting, "I am one with the Force..." because that person didn't want to waste their Destiny. Again, "seeing" terrible events unfolds around one's self might further galvanized this view of the Force (and Destiny. <-- See what I did there ;))

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During the movie you can see how Chirrut is gaining visions similar to the Forsee power and using it to his advantage. Heck maybe he even has Sense or Forsight, all of which he gained naturally much like our characters. But just before the moment where he does his final walk you can see him shaking. It's as if he is afraid and better yet he gets his final vision... this is going to be the end, here the Force has led him.

To me that was a really touching moment how he sees his own demise, how he is human, not completely devoid of fear and maybe even doubts his own mantra and beliefs all this time.

"What if the force is just a tool, and not a grand thing guiding me... What if i was wrong all this time?"

But then he gathers up, it's now or his friends will die.

It's the ultimate test of faith, and so he needs to remind himself every step what he is doing, what he is believing, maybe even praying that it is and was real all this time.

"I am one with the force and the force is with me, I am one with the force and the force is with me, I am one with the force and the force is with me...".

 

I think this scene was lovely even if he died right after pushing a foolish button that is only there to create tension and fake obstacles. But, it captured for me the human drama and the feelings one has regarding this mystical thing called "The Force". It's like a believer seeing all his religion erased, being one of the last ones left and inside being a bit insecure to what is happening. That's humility and humanity right there.

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What if the Force won't allow someone to perish until their DESTINY has been fulfilled. 

How many times could Luke, Leia, Han, and even Vader survive so many terrific situations?

--> As many times as the Force needed to keep 'em alive until their Destiny was fulfilled. 

 

Once each Rogue One hero completed their primary purpose (per the Force), they bite dust. Would the Force intervene? Would the stuff that binds all of us together have some proportional influence on our actions (or the actions of others)? Maybe this is why Stormtroopers' blasters miss so comically against our primary heroes, yet they've no problem with other targets as part of a vast military regime.

 

If one were to "see" the Force in this way, like a Taoist flow of purposeful energy, one might start chanting, "I am one with the Force..." because that person didn't want to waste their Destiny. Again, "seeing" terrible events unfolds around one's self might further galvanized this view of the Force (and Destiny. <-- See what I did there ;))

 

Well if the Force won't allow them to die until their Destiny is fullfilled, then it is impossible for a person to "waste their Destiny" as you put it.

 

 

I was very happy that he died without yet another display of his silly blind monk BS.

 

That's fine, but my opinion is that if you are going to establish a character as a bada** martial artist, you show him doing that more than once.  For the rest of the movie pretty much, he just sat around and said cryptic lines.  He shot a couple blaster shots, but that's it.  The signature trait for that character, so signature that it was the only thing they showed us about him in all the trailers, was kicking lots of butt in melee combat.....he does that one time, and never again.   That's almost a character version of Chekov's Gun as far as I'm concerned.  To just have him walk across a field, and push a button, is the epitome of anti-climactic.  Especially for someone as talented as Donny Yin.  To not utilize his natural talents is pretty much a waste of his time.  They could've picked any good actor for that role honestly.  Just give them a few weeks of physical training to practice that one scene, and then they just act for the rest of the movie.  But to hire one of the best martial artist actors in the business, and have him just do one fight scene that lasted 5 seconds?  What's the point?

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Does everyone forget I mentioned he carries a device that let's him use echo location(source visual book).

Star Wars has technology that allows you to meld your mind with a super computer to Jack up your intelligence, but when someone mentions in a canon book, that he is using an echo location device you ignore this and say he must have the force because he can now see (aided by this technology) and spouts a load of mantras about the force.

Hardly conclusive evidence that he is FS. As I say watching the film alone, you may think he is, but given all the other canon material, people choose to reject LFL's world to make it their own and stick 2 fingers up at the creators in a big screw you, and decide that he is. I respect the writers and creators too much to ignore the world they have chosen to create, I also respect other people and how they choose to view it, however arguing against the canon ands saying it's wrong because you believe it to be so is like tilting at windmills, you won't find LFL back tracking now and saying he is FS.

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Does everyone forget I mentioned he carries a device that let's him use echo location(source visual book).

 

Not shown at all in the movie, so I don't care what book it's in.  And I'm 100% sure the writers/directors didn't know/care either.  They presented him as a mystic type force guy, and there was no evidence in the movie presented to the contrary.

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It is shown in the movie he carrues

Does everyone forget I mentioned he carries a device that let's him use echo location(source visual book).

Not shown at all in the movie, so I don't care what book it's in. And I'm 100% sure the writers/directors didn't know/care either. They presented him as a mystic type force guy, and there was no evidence in the movie presented to the contrary.
He carries it and it is in the movie.

Edit for info take a look at the stills after he owns the troopers look at the dirty white straps there is an item with a red dot attached to the straps covering his centre section that has what looks like a speaker grill on it the description of this item is "Echo-box transmitter assists in situational awareness"

Edited by syrath

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It is shown in the movie he carrues

 

Does everyone forget I mentioned he carries a device that let's him use echo location(source visual book).

Not shown at all in the movie, so I don't care what book it's in.  And I'm 100% sure the writers/directors didn't know/care either.  They presented him as a mystic type force guy, and there was no evidence in the movie presented to the contrary.

He carries it and it is in the movie.

 

Sure, his outfit does have some device on it. Its exact use though, isn't depicted in the movie.

 

Uncertain of the exact "source" your referencing, but my bet is its one of those picture book sorta things where it just points lines and various things on an image and gives a description of what it is?

 

While certainly, the current stance on canon is if it has Disney on it, its canon, I highly doubt the source in question here has been completely vetted by the appropriate people; frankly it shouldn't be trusted as absolute. Even more, such a device likely isn't used in a fight, but more to make sure he doesn't walk into a wall. He clearly has some connection with the force with regards to how he is a badass.

Edited by KommissarK

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Written by Pablo Hidalgo, one of the top people in the LFL story group. Also these items are designed at concept art level, long before thre film is made. The purpose of this device is usually decided then, that is so books like this can be made in time for the films release. So I'd say iris a safe bet the writers knew what they wanted when this item was designed prior to Donnie Yen even touching it. It's not a case of them coming up with a cool costume then retconning the item to fit, the item is designed to fit the wearer.

They didn't go through thousands of designs for the U wing just for fun, each section had a purpose. These books are designed to get across the level of detail that goes into every costume , every hat.

So it is safe to say he is wearing it for that exact purpose.

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It is shown in the movie he carrues

Does everyone forget I mentioned he carries a device that let's him use echo location(source visual book).

Not shown at all in the movie, so I don't care what book it's in.  And I'm 100% sure the writers/directors didn't know/care either.  They presented him as a mystic type force guy, and there was no evidence in the movie presented to the contrary.

He carries it and it is in the movie.

Sure, his outfit does have some device on it. Its exact use though, isn't depicted in the movie.

 

Uncertain of the exact "source" your referencing, but my bet is its one of those picture book sorta things where it just points lines and various things on an image and gives a description of what it is?

 

While certainly, the current stance on canon is if it has Disney on it, its canon, I highly doubt the source in question here has been completely vetted by the appropriate people; frankly it shouldn't be trusted as absolute. Even more, such a device likely isn't used in a fight, but more to make sure he doesn't walk into a wall. He clearly has some connection with the force with regards to how he is a badass.

If being written by Pablo Hidalgo - LFL's go-to guy for canonicity questions - isn't proper vetting, I'm not sure what is. ;)

At the same time, there has to be something more than mere echo location in play, since he was aware of Jyn's kyber crystal pendant when it was underneath her outer clothing.

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It is shown in the movie he carrues

Does everyone forget I mentioned he carries a device that let's him use echo location(source visual book).

Not shown at all in the movie, so I don't care what book it's in.  And I'm 100% sure the writers/directors didn't know/care either.  They presented him as a mystic type force guy, and there was no evidence in the movie presented to the contrary.

He carries it and it is in the movie.

Sure, his outfit does have some device on it. Its exact use though, isn't depicted in the movie.

 

Uncertain of the exact "source" your referencing, but my bet is its one of those picture book sorta things where it just points lines and various things on an image and gives a description of what it is?

 

While certainly, the current stance on canon is if it has Disney on it, its canon, I highly doubt the source in question here has been completely vetted by the appropriate people; frankly it shouldn't be trusted as absolute. Even more, such a device likely isn't used in a fight, but more to make sure he doesn't walk into a wall. He clearly has some connection with the force with regards to how he is a badass.

If being written by Pablo Hidalgo - LFL's go-to guy for canonicity questions - isn't proper vetting, I'm not sure what is. ;)

At the same time, there has to be something more than mere echo location in play, since he was aware of Jyn's kyber crystal pendant when it was underneath her outer clothing.

Actually, no, another canon source quoted that the crystal in his staff gives off a harmonic that aids him in combat (ie high frequency sound), that his "almost supernatural" hearing can hear and locate, this helps him in combat. Given he can hear his own kyber another one in his presence should equally be able to be heard and located. Source again is Hidalgo

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It is shown in the movie he carrues

Does everyone forget I mentioned he carries a device that let's him use echo location(source visual book).

Not shown at all in the movie, so I don't care what book it's in.  And I'm 100% sure the writers/directors didn't know/care either.  They presented him as a mystic type force guy, and there was no evidence in the movie presented to the contrary.

He carries it and it is in the movie.

Sure, his outfit does have some device on it. Its exact use though, isn't depicted in the movie.

 

Uncertain of the exact "source" your referencing, but my bet is its one of those picture book sorta things where it just points lines and various things on an image and gives a description of what it is?

 

While certainly, the current stance on canon is if it has Disney on it, its canon, I highly doubt the source in question here has been completely vetted by the appropriate people; frankly it shouldn't be trusted as absolute. Even more, such a device likely isn't used in a fight, but more to make sure he doesn't walk into a wall. He clearly has some connection with the force with regards to how he is a badass.

If being written by Pablo Hidalgo - LFL's go-to guy for canonicity questions - isn't proper vetting, I'm not sure what is. ;)

At the same time, there has to be something more than mere echo location in play, since he was aware of Jyn's kyber crystal pendant when it was underneath her outer clothing.

Actually, no, another canon source quoted that the crystal in his staff gives off a harmonic that aids him in combat (ie high frequency sound), that his "almost supernatural" hearing can hear and locate, this helps him in combat. Given he can hear his own kyber another one in his presence should equally be able to be heard and located. Source again is Hidalgo

Far he it from me to dispute Pablo when I invoked his status myself ;) but that doesn't quite cover it for me. So the echo location tells him that she, specifically in a city that's lousy with 'em (hence the Imperial harvesting/mining operation), has a kyber crystal. So far, so good. He specifically called it out as a necklace before identifying the crystal to her. How did he know that specific a detail?

Personally, I'm inclined to see it as a combination of the two: practical technology and getting "nudges" from his connection to the Force.

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No idea, however both him and and Baze were there and if he was able to pinpoint the location of the kyber it wouldn't take much to figure out just below head height. As for his echo location is it good enough (ala daredevil) that he can see peoples faces with it. Who knows ,but so far I'm seeing no actual proof he is force sensitive, and no matter what you say I doubt you would be able to definitively contradict LFLs stance that he isn't. He doesn't do anything in the film that can not be explained other ways,

FWIW I tried and failed to subjectively look at it and prove that he was. In fact my first description was that he was a warden, because if what he did to lock down the stormtroopers was a perfect narrative example of grapple as he held 2 or 3 of them in place so they couldn't disengage from him ,while he dealt with the rest.

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**comment removed because I just realized I really don't give a **** how a boring character in a boring movie did the things he did, and don't feel like nitpicking it anymore**

Wouldn't describe him as boring I actually like him more if he isn't FS because it makes what he says similar to the mantras you hear from other annoying religious zealots , yet, we accept what he says , I think LFL was playing a joke on us, although Donnie Yen had a lot of input and decided he would be blind.

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Argue with LFL as they are the ones saying he isnt FS im just citing their references and pointing out that there is no proof in the film that he is, just evidence that makes you think he could be., Given they made the character and wrote up his background along with some input from Donnie Yen (a lot of input according to the sources). Its like arguing tthe Atlantic ocean is a lake. From the edge of it , it could be a lake, it looks like a lake, it acts like a lake , so it must be a lake. Only LFL have access to the info that lets you see the ocean. So if you want to argue with them that the ocean is a lake , have at them , Pablo is regularly available on Twitter.

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Argue with LFL as they are the ones saying he isnt FS im just citing their references and pointing out that there is no proof in the film that he is, just evidence that makes you think he could be., Given they made the character and wrote up his background along with some input from Donnie Yen (a lot of input according to the sources). Its like arguing tthe Atlantic ocean is a lake. From the edge of it , it could be a lake, it looks like a lake, it acts like a lake , so it must be a lake. Only LFL have access to the info that lets you see the ocean. So if you want to argue with them that the ocean is a lake , have at them , Pablo is regularly available on Twitter.

I think they have a different definition than we do. And that is the problem. They have not defined what attuned to the force or what force sensitive are. 

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Yeah, it seems to me that they're just trying so hard to make it certain that he isn't a jedi, that they're muddying up the terms. And perhaps its just that they want "Force Sensitive" to be used to describe those that eventually follow the jedi tradition, whereas force attuned just means anyone that follows some sort of force tradition.

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Argue with LFL as they are the ones saying he isnt FS im just citing their references and pointing out that there is no proof in the film that he is, just evidence that makes you think he could be., Given they made the character and wrote up his background along with some input from Donnie Yen (a lot of input according to the sources). Its like arguing tthe Atlantic ocean is a lake. From the edge of it , it could be a lake, it looks like a lake, it acts like a lake , so it must be a lake. Only LFL have access to the info that lets you see the ocean. So if you want to argue with them that the ocean is a lake , have at them , Pablo is regularly available on Twitter.

I think they have a different definition than we do. And that is the problem. They have not defined what attuned to the force or what force sensitive are.

Except they have defined 2 things with regards to these phrases, Chirrut is not force sensitve and being attuned is not conflicting with being non force sensitive.

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Just I have a problem with things being muddy; if he isn't then fine but it takes one line to say "great we were saved by a phony with a motion tracker". I find it extremely bad practice to make a movie on something, and post a canon source of information that wasn't available in the movie into a source book of all things. It's like Destiny, that game had practically zero story to speak of and released all the information about it's game world on a completely separate website.

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Argue with LFL as they are the ones saying he isnt FS im just citing their references and pointing out that there is no proof in the film that he is, just evidence that makes you think he could be., Given they made the character and wrote up his background along with some input from Donnie Yen (a lot of input according to the sources). Its like arguing tthe Atlantic ocean is a lake. From the edge of it , it could be a lake, it looks like a lake, it acts like a lake , so it must be a lake. Only LFL have access to the info that lets you see the ocean. So if you want to argue with them that the ocean is a lake , have at them , Pablo is regularly available on Twitter.

I think they have a different definition than we do. And that is the problem. They have not defined what attuned to the force or what force sensitive are.

Except they have defined 2 things with regards to these phrases, Chirrut is not force sensitve and being attuned is not conflicting with being non force sensitive.

 

Not really. All they have done is say there is a difference. But not what that difference is. 

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Argue with LFL as they are the ones saying he isnt FS im just citing their references and pointing out that there is no proof in the film that he is, just evidence that makes you think he could be., Given they made the character and wrote up his background along with some input from Donnie Yen (a lot of input according to the sources). Its like arguing tthe Atlantic ocean is a lake. From the edge of it , it could be a lake, it looks like a lake, it acts like a lake , so it must be a lake. Only LFL have access to the info that lets you see the ocean. So if you want to argue with them that the ocean is a lake , have at them , Pablo is regularly available on Twitter.

I think they have a different definition than we do. And that is the problem. They have not defined what attuned to the force or what force sensitive are.

Except they have defined 2 things with regards to these phrases, Chirrut is not force sensitve and being attuned is not conflicting with being non force sensitive.

 

OK, first, we have to look at how LFL may be defining the terms "Force Attuned" and Force Sensitive" here compared to how it is defined in the game. The way I see things is that LFL may be using "Force Sensitive" to mean trained in the Force, I.E. an actual Force user, whereas "Force Attuned" may mean the character can sense (and thus attuned to) the flow of the Force but is not actually trained to use it (which is how the game defines someone who is Force Sensitive). Based upon the actual definition of "Attune", this makes perfect sense. Chirrut is consciously aware of and receptive to the flow of the Force. That is, by game definition "Force Sensitive". However, he is not an actual Force user (trained in the Jedi arts), which is likely what LFL means by "Force Sensitive".

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Argue with LFL as they are the ones saying he isnt FS im just citing their references and pointing out that there is no proof in the film that he is, just evidence that makes you think he could be., Given they made the character and wrote up his background along with some input from Donnie Yen (a lot of input according to the sources). Its like arguing tthe Atlantic ocean is a lake. From the edge of it , it could be a lake, it looks like a lake, it acts like a lake , so it must be a lake. Only LFL have access to the info that lets you see the ocean. So if you want to argue with them that the ocean is a lake , have at them , Pablo is regularly available on Twitter.

I think they have a different definition than we do. And that is the problem. They have not defined what attuned to the force or what force sensitive are.

Except they have defined 2 things with regards to these phrases, Chirrut is not force sensitve and being attuned is not conflicting with being non force sensitive.

OK, first, we have to look at how LFL may be defining the terms "Force Attuned" and Force Sensitive" here compared to how it is defined in the game. The way I see things is that LFL may be using "Force Sensitive" to mean trained in the Force, I.E. an actual Force user, whereas "Force Attuned" may mean the character can sense (and thus attuned to) the flow of the Force but is not actually trained to use it (which is how the game defines someone who is Force Sensitive). Based upon the actual definition of "Attune", this makes perfect sense. Chirrut is consciously aware of and receptive to the flow of the Force. That is, by game definition "Force Sensitive". However, he is not an actual Force user (trained in the Jedi arts), which is likely what LFL means by "Force Sensitive".

This does seem to be the most likely scenario.

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