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Punning Pundit

2 Attack Dice and The Tank Meta

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Outmaneuver - 1pt

Opportunist - 2pt

Predator - 3pt

Expertise - 4pt

That would be the right way to curve it.

PTL - 8 pts

 

 

PTL is not nearly as omnipresent enough anymore to warrant increasing its cost

 

all it would do is make poor norra unusable

 

It could still do with a tweak up.  I think it you tweak it up you make other choices better, and by also dropping EPTs like Outmaneuver to a lower cost you're already moving some people away from PTL (both because there are cheaper options that are good, and more Outmaneuver in the meta devalues token-stacking with PTL a bit).

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Outmaneuver - 1pt

Opportunist - 2pt

Predator - 3pt

Expertise - 4pt

That would be the right way to curve it.

PTL - 8 pts

 

 

PTL is not nearly as omnipresent enough anymore to warrant increasing its cost

 

all it would do is make poor norra unusable

 

It could still do with a tweak up.  I think it you tweak it up you make other choices better, and by also dropping EPTs like Outmaneuver to a lower cost you're already moving some people away from PTL (both because there are cheaper options that are good, and more Outmaneuver in the meta devalues token-stacking with PTL a bit).

 

 

other choices already ARE better, though

 

it's been largely replaced in scum by mindlink, especially on Rau

 

and Defenders don't really care for it. Ryad is about the only one who can take it, and even then she can be run with epts such as crackshot

 

the only two remaining ships that really care about it are Corran Horn and Norra, plus the incredibly occasional Dash

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And double Shadow Caster, and Corran, and Jake, and Manaroo... and all the other annoying **** that will come back as soon as conditions are right.

 

Manaroo rarely flown with PTL, she is mainly a Mindlink ship, outside of Dangaroo naturally.

Better mentioned the inquisitor, soontir and carnor, those ships are basically glued to PTL. 8 point PTL would make them useless too, except when you give them a 1 point outmaneuver, but in that case some people would not use a 3 points ptl either.  °_^

 

Choice is good, I would not argue with a 4 points PTL, but buffing the other EPTs should have higher priority. And if the mynock squadron podcast is right than mindlink is starting to see more play than PTL soon in the usa as well. In Europe it seems to be all over the place already … mindlink lists might be even more common than commonwealth defenders now … which ironically come with just one PTL at best or none at all even.  ^-^

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Paratanni is breaking out. It's better than Dengaroo, maybe the #1 list in the meta because it's MOV is just ridiculous.

I see Parattanni won in Australia. Definitely have to take it specifically into account in the current meta. How is it's MOV situation good? It has 2 large base ships that bleed MOV at half health. Just curious

 

Corran + Miranda seems like the best list to hold onto MOV. (or double K-wing)

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Inquisitor and Soontir?

 

I Also greatly prefer PTL on Fenn for the repositioning value.

 

 

Also: I´dd love to see a lot of upgrade cards rebalanced in cost. Unused stuff like Lightning Reflexes and Daredevil should be rewritten or re-costed, not to mention the trashyard we call "Rebel Crew".

Edited by tsuruki

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Another option is pretty hardcore, but it's in the direction of something I've been thinking for a while: make Outmaneuver part of the rules. We're used to range bonuses adding dice, now an arc bonus can reduce a defensive dice.

I've definitely had thoughts along those lines. I would have liked to have seen it for- say- the A-Wing as a title. I think I'd make it a Small ship, 2 dice primary, primary weapon only rule.

And I might even make it a _rule_, instead of a mod or title. Too many ships already have titles and mods they need, so I'm hesitant to fill those slots. And an EPT still leaves out a lot of ships- including most of the Z-95s.

That's the other important thing that would be done with a buff for 2 dice primaries: it would make lower PS swarms viable, and thus open up options for ships at PS 6&7. For instance: Turr Phennir would be _awesome_ in an environment where there were a lot of PS 1-4 ships flying around. But as it is, he will usually be one of the lower PS ships being flown.

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New rebel crew: Partsan Opperative (1 pt)

When in range 1 of any other ship destroy that ship and this ship.

They don't care who they hit, and they don't care about taking themselves out to do it.

Zeb orrelios with Captured TIE, Sabine's Masterpiece, Dead Man's Switch, Partisan Operative.

Just fly over there, pick a ship, boom.

Could also be Ahsoka w. Veteran Instincts if you want PS 9 to make sure you're in range.

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I love that the best responses to "how do we make ships with 2 dice attacks good again" are "equip them with cannons and missiles to roll more red dice".

Well... more an answer about what to do against tanks.

Not necessarily improving a attack 2 ship.

Though I admit my answer could be interpreted as such...

But you have a point. There is not much else to improve att2 ships I can think of.. :)

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i think "swarm leader" should have been the 2die attack fix. It should have been

 

"Swarm Attack"

Slot: EPT

Cost: 2pt

Descrip: When attacking with a primary weapon, you may reduce the attack value of up to two other friendly ships with 2 attack value or less that have the defender in arc and range 1-3. Increase your attack value for each ship you select. You may not equip this upgrade if your primary attack is 3 or more.

 

Not unique, but only 2die ships can do it. Scyks, Z95s, TIE fighters (both), TIE Adv, etc etc would be able to use it to get one of their ships to have a punch at the sacrifice of their usual EPT.

Edited by Vineheart01

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I think the idea of "the tank" is not quite right because it conflates two types: the beefy tank and the circumventing or damage mitigating tank, even though I admit that the lines are blurred.

 

The beefy tank has a ton of hull and shield (I'll call it HP for now) and no or low agility. The VCX-100 is the most typical case. Fat Han is here because even though the MF+C-3PO allows him to consistently prevent 2 damage on one attack, that only happens once per round and after that he relies on 1 puny agility die. So a swarm can still eat him up.

 

The mitigating tank has ways to completely ignore damage. The Defender is the prime example with his evade+focus+3 greens plus 6HP. Granted the tokens are single use, too. But the amount of defensive capabilities AND 2-3 ships mean that damage will trickle through very slowly if at all.

Or the Shadowcaster with 9HP, 2 green, and Latts.

 

So I'd suggest that the two types are treated seperately. The beefy tank is no problem at all. But the mitigating tank just can't be destroyed by 2-attack-ship-lists.

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i think "swarm leader" should have been the 2die attack fix. It should have been

 

"Swarm Attack"

Slot: EPT

Cost: 2pt

Descrip: When attacking with a primary weapon, you may reduce the attack value of up to two other friendly ships with 2 attack value or less that have the defender in arc and range 1-3. Increase your attack value for each ship you select. You may not equip this upgrade if your primary attack is 3 or more.

 

Not unique, but only 2die ships can do it. Scyks, Z95s, TIE fighters (both), TIE Adv, etc etc would be able to use it to get one of their ships to have a punch at the sacrifice of their usual EPT.

 

I like it, though I would allow it to reduce attack value of ships with more than 2 Attack.value. I don't see the issue of reducing a interceptor which sits on range 3 to attack value two if you can boost up a tie-fighter with a range 1 shot up to 4 dice. Or 5 if there is another ship which has arc. 

 

Hmmm, I would love to fly an A-Wing mini-swarm with that. Jake Farrell with Swarm Leader and Swarm Attack and 3 Green Squadron A-Wings with Swarm Attack and maybe Trickshot. and Captain Rex for suppressing fire. 

 

 

Still, It don't think this is the right place for custom card league suggestions ^_^

Edited by SEApocalypse

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Another option is pretty hardcore, but it's in the direction of something I've been thinking for a while: make Outmaneuver part of the rules. We're used to range bonuses adding dice, now an arc bonus can reduce a defensive dice.

I've definitely had thoughts along those lines. I would have liked to have seen it for- say- the A-Wing as a title. I think I'd make it a Small ship, 2 dice primary, primary weapon only rule.

And I might even make it a _rule_, instead of a mod or title. Too many ships already have titles and mods they need, so I'm hesitant to fill those slots. And an EPT still leaves out a lot of ships- including most of the Z-95s.

That's the other important thing that would be done with a buff for 2 dice primaries: it would make lower PS swarms viable, and thus open up options for ships at PS 6&7. For instance: Turr Phennir would be _awesome_ in an environment where there were a lot of PS 1-4 ships flying around. But as it is, he will usually be one of the lower PS ships being flown.

 

 

Deflection shooting is something I've (mostly idly) considered as an experimental variant - dogfight focus X-Wing. Something like: Attacks from the side (you are in the defender's side arc) suffer a fairly large penalty, attacks from behind are normal (or maybe +1 red die), attacks from the front let you remove one of your red dice to gain a green dice (you focus more on dodging than on shooting).

In WW2 dogfights (which the Star Wars fighters were based on), hitting someone with a deflection shot was really hard, and the X-wing computer games are similar.

 

I don't think it's something for normal play though.

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