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Punning Pundit

2 Attack Dice and The Tank Meta

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Welp unless a 2.0 rolls around and we get different sets of dice similar to how IA dice changed from Decent despite it being the same-ish system I think a few modifications limited to 2 dice ships would do the trick.

 

Precision Emitter Array - 2-3 points - Modification

 

Can only be equipped to a ship with a basic attack of two red die.This ships attacks are no longer affected by range bonuses. Once per turn this ship may modify a single die as listed below.

 

This ship may spend a eye result to cancel all evade results and tokens.

This ship may spend a hit result to cancel all evade results and tokens, and turn one hit into a critical hit.

This ship may spend a critical hit to cancel all attack and evade results and apply a direct hit to the targeted ship.

 

 

Something like this would synergize fairly well with several available cards. It's cheap enough to spam with 4+ ships. It fills up a spot that ordinance carriers want open so it don't become mandatory on every low attack ship regardless of role. Finally, IMO, it's balanced in that it's still prone to rolls and you'll still want other affects to tip the scales in your favor.

Edited by BomberGob

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A single point of damage = about a single squad point. Crackshot/seismic (1pt for dmg, 1pt for when it deals more than 1).

How do you get 2att ship to deal that 1pt of damage for 1pt without it being accessible by 3att ships?

"you cannot equip this card if your attack is 3 or higher" is one way.

"reduce this damage by your attack rating" is another.

How do you balance it's cost if it's repeatable? Sabatuer is a good example of bad returns.

Yeah that's BS.

Average squad has like 20-30 hull/shield, so if I spend 20pts I win?

1 dmg is worth much more than 1pt, which is why Crack Shot is good.

I was using crackshot as an example of how 1 auto damage is costed currently. You only use it when it matters so for 1pt you can deal 1 damage. That is the most used point of auto-damage available. Seismic charges cost 2 and an action for at least 1 auto damage (again, otherwise you wouldn't use it) and maybe more with area effect/Sabine.

Sabatuer doesn't even come close to repeatable auto damage in the crew slot for 2pts and doesn't see the light of day. Even Vader crew at 3 in the crew a lot for auto damage + crit potential with a damage cost doesn't see play anymore.

New Auto damage must be both well costed, and not available to ships that can already "tank bust" without it to break the current meta trends.

And if you could spend 20pts on crackshot in a single list with 20 EPT carrying 2 red dice ships you would probably win.

Edited by Rakky Wistol

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I'm thinking more and more that TIE fighters should be 10 points nowadays, at least for the Academy TIEs. I mean, only 20-something defenders ever existed because of the enormous production cost, whereas the TIE fighter's main selling point was its expendability. One TIE is not a third the price of a Defender (12 pt Academy vs 28 point X7 Delta). At 10 points, 10 in a list would be fairly brutal. Or eight and Howlrunner...

 

The academy pilot could be 10 points nowadays. Powercreep really has advanced this far in X-wing. To prevent 10x TIE fighters in a list, you just add a squad building rule that says you can only have 8 ships of one type, just like epic has limits to the numbers of ships. Ships in the 10-20 point range have so much unexplored potential. I believe the future of X-wing resides in creative new pilots in this price range.

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But if you created a squad of 10 Academy Pilots it would be ****.  It's not like 8 Academy Pilots is aaaaaalmost good enough.

They've created a situation where there's almost no appropriate cost for a TIE Fighter, because adding extra TIE Fighters doesn't mean you win it just means it takes longer for your opponent to clean the table.

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The answer to a tank: ordnance

Yes.., you read that right.

Within my regular gaming group it became the to-go-to answer to tanks.

And many ATT 2 ships have a slot for it. With upgrades such as guidance ships it even became worse.

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Just gotta look at the 2 dice ships thwtllat work

Ie omega l and bomber ks

Ie ie, the **** dice brigade

 

Which is why I'm eagerly awaiting the Upsilon. Major Stridan with Hux aboard should - in theory - go a long way to giving 2-dice TIE/fo's a tool to actually hurt the new generation of ships which don't care if you block them or how many individual attackers there are (attani mindlink protectorates are a good example, as is lone wolf dengar).

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The answer has been there all along to this question. Yet no one dared consider... We made fun of them. But their day has been slowly coming. 

 

What if we had a 3 AG ship, with 3 attack dice but a bonus attack dice at range 2-3 that negated agility bonuses and could be used every turn?

 

What if that ship had 4 HPs and the evade action?

 

What if you had white 1 turns, and 3/5 K turns to get behind those behemoths and destroy them like the bullies they are?

 

What if you could have FOUR of these ships? 

 

 

BULLY BUSTERS (100)

Cartel Spacer — M3-A Interceptor14 Heavy Laser Cannon7 "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon)2 Ship Total: 23 
Cartel Spacer — M3-A Interceptor14 Heavy Laser Cannon7 "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon)2 Ship Total: 23 
Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor17 Fearlessness1 Heavy Laser Cannon7" Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon)2 Ship Total: 27 
Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor17 Fearlessness1 Heavy Laser Cannon7" Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon)2 Ship Total: 27 

 

BELIEVE

Edited by Cloaker

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I think either of the 2 following things need to be added.

1) Upgrade that make you roll more dice, but can't deal more damage than the printed attack value of the ship.

2) Upgrade that allow ships to combine attacks (add attack value of a friendly ship, but gives a disabled weapon token to that friendly ship), but can't deal more damage than the printed value of the ship.

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I love that the best responses to "how do we make ships with 2 dice attacks good again" are "equip them with cannons and missiles to roll more red dice".

The true alternative is to somehow separate the chance to hit and the chance to do damage. Which would imply a new edition. Otherwise, it comes down to somehow increasing hits or decreasing evades.

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I love that the best responses to "how do we make ships with 2 dice attacks good again" are "equip them with cannons and missiles to roll more red dice".

The true alternative is to somehow separate the chance to hit and the chance to do damage. Which would imply a new edition. Otherwise, it comes down to somehow increasing hits or decreasing evades.

 

 

ner, the true alternative without xwing 2.0 is low amounts of guaranteed damage

 

it's actually very simple. More red dice just makes it easier to obliterate high health low agi ships. Capped damage negates high agility's offense without negating high health

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I love that the best responses to "how do we make ships with 2 dice attacks good again" are "equip them with cannons and missiles to roll more red dice".

The true alternative is to somehow separate the chance to hit and the chance to do damage. Which would imply a new edition. Otherwise, it comes down to somehow increasing hits or decreasing evades.

 

ner, the true alternative without xwing 2.0 is low amounts of guaranteed damage

 

it's actually very simple. More red dice just makes it easier to obliterate high health low agi ships. Capped damage negates high agility's offense without negating high health

Which again implies rolling more red dice, but cancelling the results and doing only one damage. Like a single TLT shot. But you still increase the red dice.

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I love that the best responses to "how do we make ships with 2 dice attacks good again" are "equip them with cannons and missiles to roll more red dice".

The true alternative is to somehow separate the chance to hit and the chance to do damage. Which would imply a new edition. Otherwise, it comes down to somehow increasing hits or decreasing evades.
 

ner, the true alternative without xwing 2.0 is low amounts of guaranteed damage

 

it's actually very simple. More red dice just makes it easier to obliterate high health low agi ships. Capped damage negates high agility's offense without negating high health

Which again implies rolling more red dice, but cancelling the results and doing only one damage. Like a single TLT shot. But you still increase the red dice.

 

 

it does not

 

see Hux/Wampa/autoblaster etc

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I love that the best responses to "how do we make ships with 2 dice attacks good again" are "equip them with cannons and missiles to roll more red dice".

The true alternative is to somehow separate the chance to hit and the chance to do damage. Which would imply a new edition. Otherwise, it comes down to somehow increasing hits or decreasing evades.
 

ner, the true alternative without xwing 2.0 is low amounts of guaranteed damage

 

it's actually very simple. More red dice just makes it easier to obliterate high health low agi ships. Capped damage negates high agility's offense without negating high health

Which again implies rolling more red dice, but cancelling the results and doing only one damage. Like a single TLT shot. But you still increase the red dice.

 

it does not

 

see Hux/Wampa/autoblaster etc

That's true, those are possible, too. I don't see either option as a good contender for modifying most/all existing 2 attack ships though. So as far as realistic alternatives are concerned, Wampa and autoblaster probably do not pave the way.

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Free mod for ships with 2 or fewer red dice, acts like autoblasters, including the range one limit. There, same number of red dice, you just gotta move in close and blast away. Oh and replaces the Primaries. Sorry, trying to keep it free.

Edited by GrimmyV

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Which again implies rolling more red dice, but cancelling the results and doing only one damage. Like a single TLT shot. But you still increase the red dice.

 

I could see that.  An EPT that you roll attack dice equal to your agility but can only do 1 damage. 

 

Another option is pretty hardcore, but it's in the direction of something I've been thinking for a while: make Outmaneuver part of the rules.  We're used to range bonuses adding dice, now an arc bonus can reduce a defensive dice.

* Rewards maneuvering

* Buffs jousting relative to turrets, makes even turreted ships care about arc

* Reduces power of token stacking as you've less dice to buff

* discourages boring head-on jousts to replace them with dogfighting for position

Lots of small weak ships can now make a difference by flying to maximise their speed/agility for superior positioning.  Be in the right place and the fact you've 1 less dice is mitigated.  That this rule would have hampered so many of the most unpopular strategies in the game (TLTs, turrets in general, Soontir, Dash) while subtly boosting generics and rewarding good flying... it seems all good.  I'm sure there's a really good reason not to do this which somebody will point out, but I like the idea of it.

I think there's a fundamental issue in the game in the balance between positioning/dice modification and writing Outmaneuvering into the rules would address that.

Edited by Stay On The Leader

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outmanueuver could also just be cheaper so it could be an alternative to crackshot, you'd just have to specify primary firing arc because otherwise TLT ghost/phantom and, more commonly, shadowcasters will walk all over the game

 

 

 

hell, ARCs get tailgunner for 2 points and that's far easier to enable than outmanuever

 

 

then again, the ARC is a 25+ point clunker and the tie fighter aint

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I'd love Outmaneuver to be a cheaper EPT, because it makes people play the game "the right way".  It's right that it should outperform the efficiency of something like Predator in offensive efficiency, but in fact even if you're consistently using Outmaneuver it comes out marginally worse than Predator for damage dealt.

I'd support a 1pt Outmaneuver, and would LOVE to fly that resulting TIE Swarm.

The Primary Arc only thing is probably fair.

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I'd love Outmaneuver to be a cheaper EPT, because it makes people play the game "the right way".  It's right that it should outperform the efficiency of something like Predator in offensive efficiency, but in fact even if you're consistently using Outmaneuver it comes out marginally worse than Predator for damage dealt.

I'd support a 1pt Outmaneuver, and would LOVE to fly that resulting TIE Swarm.

The Primary Arc only thing is probably fair.

 

Outmaneuver is very similar to Predator wrt to offensive capability. Some guy just posted a graph on reddit today, comparing 2 attack dice vs 0-3 agility.

 

 

With that in mind a 1pt Outmaneuver might be too strong. But then again I love the idea to make it just a core mechanic like the ranges, which would basically give it to every ship.

Edited by CptArgonaut

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