Raining Cats and Jedi

[R5D8 420]

My apologies. I'm CERTAIN this has been asked and answered before, but try as I might, I just can't find it.

 

What power are the Jedi using to leap out of aircraft and plummet thousands of feet to land on the ground?  Is that Enhance? Is that not limited to medium range? If the answer is "It's a narrative call because it looks cool.", then I'm okay with that.

[Krieger22 2,471]

We haven't seen any power that specifically does that, so for the time being I'd chalk it up to "rule of cool". There's the Impossible Fall talent from Endless Vigil that could be used to explain it (combined with a good Coordination skill it could let you drop from Long range without any noticeable trouble), and you could narratively wing it with the Move power as well. But no specific power so far that lets you have a Force parachute.

[GroggyGolem 2,848]

I was going to say why can't you simply use Leap 2-3 times and narrate it as one long jump?

 

The power upgrade doesn't say you can't vertically leap downwards... It just allows you to leap vertically.

[kaosoe 7,573]

The Sentry from Endless Vigil has a talent called "Impossible Fall" that essentially reduces the falling height by up to two range bands.

[The Shy Ion 502]

I was going to say why can't you simply use Leap 2-3 times and narrate it as one long jump?

 

The power upgrade doesn't say you can't vertically leap downwards... It just allows you to leap vertically.

Definitely stealing that.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

The Force leap Control Upgrade under Enhance would help, provided you have enough time to activate it before you go splat.

 

But the Sentry talent Impossible Fall in Endless Vigil will pretty much let you mitigate the effects of a fall as an out-of-turn incidental.  You'd need to generate two Force points to take no damage from a short distance fall, with each additional Force point letting you reduce the fall range by one additional step (3 FPs negates the effects of a medium distance fall, 4 FPs negates the effects of a long distance fall, and 5 FPs negates the effects of an extreme distance fall).

 

So for a plunge like the one Anakin took in AotC, you're probably looking at needing to spend at least 3 Force points to avoid taking any damage.  Then again, Anakin did make a deliberate leap out of that speeder, so a case could be made for him using Force Leap to travel vertically down and thus not take any damage when he landed on Zam Wessel's speeder, presuming the distance was medium and he'd bought the Range Upgrade.  If you figure he's at least Force Rating 2 (and certainly not shy about using dark side pips to generate Force points), then the Enhance option is very easy for him to pull off.

[Benjan Meruna 797]

FFG are on record saying that Move can be used to levitate (it just wouldn't be very fast and losing concentration would be very very bad), so it could just be a use of Move at the last moment to slow yourself down.

[emsquared 779]

FFG are on record saying that Move can be used to levitate (it just wouldn't be very fast and losing concentration would be very very bad), so it could just be a use of Move at the last moment to slow yourself down.

I don't like this, and can't imagine allowing it in my game.

Even requiring a check to "stick the landing" or something, it seems like it just functionally replaces too many other Talents and Powers.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

 

FFG are on record saying that Move can be used to levitate (it just wouldn't be very fast and losing concentration would be very very bad), so it could just be a use of Move at the last moment to slow yourself down.

I don't like this, and can't imagine allowing it in my game.

Even requiring a check to "stick the landing" or something, it seems like it just functionally replaces too many other Talents and Powers.

 

I agree, and I think Sam even mentioned that Discipline checks should be required on the PC's part if they attempt to use Move on themselves.

[Benjan Meruna 797]

You could also combine it with what someone else suggested with Force leap, and make it a series of checks.

 

Though honestly, it wouldn't be a very practical use of Move.  That's one Force power check you NEED to happen, or you're toast (or pancake, rather).

[R5D8 420]

Canon issues I know, but in the eight? episode Clone Wars cartoon a while back, every Jedi was doing this. Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace, etc.

Almost looks as though it was standard fare (which leads to the question of, of it's difficult, how do you train for that?).

Requiring ranks in a specific specialization send a bit rough, but then, every Jedi can deflect blaster bolts and that's only in a few trees as well so....

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

Canon issues I know, but in the eight? episode Clone Wars cartoon a while back, every Jedi was doing this. Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace, etc.

Almost looks as though it was standard fare (which leads to the question of, of it's difficult, how do you train for that?).

Requiring ranks in a specific specialization send a bit rough, but then, every Jedi can deflect blaster bolts and that's only in a few trees as well so....

Bear in mind that most of the FaD specializations reflect that the PCs generally are figuring out their Force abilities as they go, and don't have the benefit of a childhood spent entirely training in the Jedi arts.  Even Ahsoka at the start of the Clone Wars series had more training than most starting FaD PCs, and she was only 14 years old.

[Decorus 672]

Its typically force leap. Although I do have to admit I have used move to make a staircase and then jumped from floating object to floating object.

 

I'd also like to see Holocrons that can teach talents for an xp cost.

 

As for training to do it you start with a padded mat and a raised platform then gradually increase the height until they are jumping out of space ships at 20 thousand feet and landing perfectly.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Decorus

[emsquared 779]

It's not about "can they do it" it's that, "if I allow them to do it using Move, have I made a slew of other Powers and Talents functionally less significant if not irrelevant"?

Is it just a flavor of Enhance/Jump, or is it Move they're using in 8? In my game it's a flavored Enhance/Jump.

Jumping out of ships? Is it Move or is it the various Talents? In mine it's the Talents.

It's not about the act, it's about not invalidating other options. Move is already massively powerful enough.

[R5D8 420]

As for training to do it you start with a padded mat and a raised platform then gradually increase the height until they are jumping out of space ships at 20 thousand feet and landing perfectly.

 

Sure, but even today's Olympic athletes miss the landing sometimes, and you can't call them unpracticed. If you miss on one of those free falls even once....

 

Anyway, thank you all for your thoughts. I've decided to go ahead and force any PC who wants to do this to buy it using the appropriate talent, meaning a LOT of whining from my group, but all it means is using the RAW. The rationale being that you don't fail Talents often, and I didn't want to open the door to abuse by allowing Move to be used other than what was written. "No, no. I'm not using Harm. I'm using Move on both his skull and spinal column."

 

Now I just have to buy this book...

[Benjan Meruna 797]

It's not about "can they do it" it's that, "if I allow them to do it using Move, have I made a slew of other Powers and Talents functionally less significant if not irrelevant"?

Is it just a flavor of Enhance/Jump, or is it Move they're using in 8? In my game it's a flavored Enhance/Jump.

Jumping out of ships? Is it Move or is it the various Talents? In mine it's the Talents.

It's not about the act, it's about not invalidating other options. Move is already massively powerful enough.

 

The developers addressed this when they talked about Move levitation.  They pointed out that it's slow, takes constant concentration (i.e. eats up your actions and costs strain while sustaining it), leaves you fairly open to blaster fire, and again failing just one check really lets you down (sorry).  It will never replace Force Leap because it requires multiple checks and isn't fast, it will never replace Hawkbat Swoop because it doesn't give you any bonus on combat checks...Move  can be used to levitate yourself but in my game it never has been because it's simply the worst option available.  The only time a PC would ever use it is to save themselves from death.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Benjan Meruna

[Rather Quaint 2]

The only time a PC would ever use it is to save themselves from death

 

A Mr. Palpatine would like to have a word with you about that...

[bradknowles 4,449]

I think a classic case of “Move” being used to travel vertically downward would be when Count Dooku used it when he met Asajj Ventress:

https://youtu.be/MhnY8pU3rFc?t=29s

If you don’t want that kind of effect, then you don’t want to use “Move” in this way.

Edited January 10, 2017 by bradknowles

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

I think a classic case of “Move” being used to travel vertically downward would be when Count Dooku used it when he met Asajj Ventress:

https://youtu.be/MhnY8pU3rFc?t=29s

If you don’t want that kind of effect, then you don’t want to use “Move” in this way.

True, but it's not like he was suddenly thrown off the ledge.  He knowingly stepped off at his leisure, and probably did the float down in an effort to impress upon the upstart Asajj just who she was dealing with.  Didn't quite work, but he gets points for style.

[Rossbert 76]

Another thing to think about is the sheer yardage involved in these clothes. A square yard of fabric can create enough drag to reduce fall speed enough to sometimes be survivable without any space magic.

Add in that my Jedi cloak used about six and half yards...

[Typath 11]

I remember in the Star Wars Rebel show Ezra and Kanan leaping from the Ghost onto a gas mining plant. As they were getting close to the facility they would push their arms forward like a Jedi using the move power. They did this to slow their decent and land safely. Well Kanan did, Ezra missed the bridge and almost died if it wasn't for his master saving him. That was the one with the space whales, you got to love space whales.

 

I've seen the same action done in the Clone Wars show too. It was the one when Anikan and Ahsoka jumped from a fortified dam with Rex. They pushed their arms forward right before landing, and saved Rex with the move power before he hit the ground. I think that episode was in a battle on geonosis.

 

To me it looks like a use of the move power. Like if they were push down onto the ground before going splat.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Typath

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

Yeah, it's just physics. If you can push an object away, you can also push yourself away from an object.

[emsquared 779]

The developers addressed this when they talked about Move levitation.  They pointed out that it's slow, takes constant concentration (i.e. eats up your actions and costs strain while sustaining it), leaves you fairly open to blaster fire, and again failing just one check really lets you down (sorry).  It will never replace Force Leap because it requires multiple checks and isn't fast, it will never replace Hawkbat Swoop because it doesn't give you any bonus on combat checks...Move  can be used to levitate yourself but in my game it never has been because it's simply the worst option available.  The only time a PC would ever use it is to save themselves from death.

First, in a situation where those things (slow, concentration, open, etc.) aren't a factor, just "normal" out of combat mobility, Power replaced. Power degraded.

Second, those things simply aren't true if the PC is inclined to upgrade Move anyway, with Range(s), the Hurl Control (which is a speed upgrade) and/or Fine Manipulation Control.

Steps on the toes, heels and face of other Talents and Powers. I'd never allow it.

[Typath 11]

 

The developers addressed this when they talked about Move levitation.  They pointed out that it's slow, takes constant concentration (i.e. eats up your actions and costs strain while sustaining it), leaves you fairly open to blaster fire, and again failing just one check really lets you down (sorry).  It will never replace Force Leap because it requires multiple checks and isn't fast, it will never replace Hawkbat Swoop because it doesn't give you any bonus on combat checks...Move  can be used to levitate yourself but in my game it never has been because it's simply the worst option available.  The only time a PC would ever use it is to save themselves from death.

First, in a situation where those things (slow, concentration, open, etc.) aren't a factor, just "normal" out of combat mobility, Power replaced. Power degraded.

Second, those things simply aren't true if the PC is inclined to upgrade Move anyway, with Range(s), the Hurl Control (which is a speed upgrade) and/or Fine Manipulation Control.

Steps on the toes, heels and face of other Talents and Powers. I'd never allow it.

 

 

In the last episode of Rebels Kanan used his move power to help Ezra with his enhanced jump. After Kanan manged the leap with no help, all by himself. I saw this as Ezra not strong enough to leap across such a distance yet. For me I wouldn't mind if our group uses any of these combinations to help each other out.

 

I do agree with you in not using the move power on oneself for combat mobility. Jumping across form a ship to a platform, running through battle grounds like a cheetah. 100% that's what the enhance power is for. I can not talk about the falling Talent since I don't have that book yet.

 

But I would let a player  use the move power on himself to land safely form a great distance. In a combat situation the power will cost you an action, you're in a loss for that round. The enhance power at full exp, you can do the same landing and still take an action that round. For me a least it's not a bad trade off.

[Absol197 5,296]

I'm a proponent of the "Enhance can be used to leap down" school. I have two main schools on this, both for voluntary falls, and less-than-voluntary falls.

For a voluntary fall, you can use a Vertical Force-Leap to leap down. The distance of your leap (short or medium) reduces the fall distance by the same number of "effective maneuvers." So, with a chart (I love charts!):

Leap Short:

Fall of...becomes...

Short - No damage

Medium - Short

Long - Long

Extreme - Extreme

Leap Medium:

Fall of...becomes...

Short - No damage

Medium - No damage

Long - Medium

Extreme - Long

Of course, you can combine that with a regular skill check to reduce your fall to reduce the effects even further.

For an involuntary fall, you can't use Enhance (beause you couldn't make the effort originally), but you can try Move. You need enough pips to use Move on an object of your size and have a range equal to your fall distance, and it requires a Coordination check with a difficulty equal to your fall length. If you fail, you did nothing to reduce your fall. Each success on the check (if you have enough pips) reduces the fall by one band.

But I'm a fairly mechanical person, so that's why I do this .