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Astech

The Poor T-65

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The T-65 is bad, we all know it. The aces don't have boost/barrel roll to stay alive, and the generics don't have jousting efficiency. I just want to highlight how many good options there are for the same price. The Rookie Pilot is essentially 22 points (R2 + Integrated), and at that price you can get:

 

Rebel:

A blue squadron B-wing. We all know its better, and this is the default comparison.

Sabine Wren (Attack Shuttle), with either crack shot or intelligence agent. Far, far more maneuverable, with equal offense and the evade action to boot.

Green Squadron Pilot (A-wing) with Snap Shot and juke. Not only is it equally durable, but it has superior offensive firepower.

Rebel Operative (HWK-290) with a TLT. Equivalent durability, significantly worse dial, but much better offense, and has no problem keeping shots on target.

Gold Squadron Pilot (Y-wing) with an autoblaster turret and R4-D6. This ship takes a minimum of four shot to destroy, regardless of any abilities, thanks to R4-D6. The autoblaster turret makes it highly dangerous at its 21 points against low-health aces. Its a superior blocker and equivalent jouster.

 

Empire:

Tempest Squadron Pilot (TIE Advanced), with Adv. Targeting computer or accuracy corrector, to taste. Better durabiity, offense and maneuverability.

Valen Rudor (TI Adv. Prototype). Yes, He's 22 points.

Deathfire (Bomber) with proximity mines and extra munitions. A fantastic little bomber, with equal health and (slightly) worse offense, but a great party trick.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (Bomber) with systems officer, fleet officer, and TIE mkII. The best, cheapest support craft in the game, with equivalent durability, lower offense, but enormous support value.

Saber Squadron Pilot (Interceptor) with crack shot. Better maneuverability, anti-ace firepower (equivalent in a joust). The only thing lacking is the three extra hull, but the evade action can help there.

Black Squadron Scout (Striker) with A Score To Settle and Lightweight Frame. Slightly better offense, near-equal defense (with lightweight frame), but far, far superior maneuverability.

Omega Leader (TE/fo) with crack shot. A discounted version, but it's 22 points, same as the Rookie, but better in every way possible.

Omicron Group Pilot (Lambda Shuttle)  with electronic baffle. This, too, is 22 points. It has equivalent offense, 4 more health, and a large base and 0 peed maneuver for blocking. -1 agility is the only downside.

 

Scum:

Cartel Marauder (Kihraxz) with glitterstim, cloaking device or Black Market Slicer Tools. A better dial than the X-wing with an elicit tool to help deal with whatever your list is weak against (glitter for a joust, cloak for swarms, BMST fo PTL aces). Better in every way, except -1 shield.

Tansarii Point Veteran (Scyk) with Heavy Scyk, Tractor Beam and Juke. If the target doesn't have a focus token, Tractor Beam can be brutal. You could swap out for an Ion canon and A Score to Settle for more control.

Cartel Spacer (Scyk) with Heavy Scyk, Mangler Cannon. 20 points for the same thing an X-wing does, but slightly better offense and superior maneuverability.

Zealous Recruit (Protectorate) with Autothrusters. Kinda better in every way, especially against turrets.

Unkar Plutt (Quadjumper, unreleased) with Intelligence agent, Spacetug Tractor Array, Inertial Dampeners and Primed Thrusters. The ultimate blocker - we're talking 2 tractor beam tokens before shots start. Soontir Fel at AGI 1 is a lot less intimidating. With primed thrusters, intelligence agent and inertial dampeners, he can be anywhere, at any time. All at 22 points. Ketsu Onyo crew would also be fantastic, if you're already good at predicting your opponent's maneuvers.

Sarco Plank (Quadjumper) With Intelligence Agent, Feedback Array and primed thrusters. Another fantastic blocker, this time with damage instead of tractor beam tokens.

 

N-Dru Suhlak (Z-95) with Clister Missiles, Lone Wolf, Guidance chips and Black Market SLicer Tools. aside from the fact that he's more powerful than an X-wing so long as there's no friendly ships in his bubble, the 4-die cluster missiles pack a punch, and BMST keeps him relevant after they're gone.

 

So there you have it. A whopping 20 pilot + card combinations that are far, far better than the T-65 Rookie Pilot. Some are barely better (Blue squadron B-wing) and some are enormously superior (Unkar Plutt, Sabine, Omega Leader). The conclusion: the generic x-wing pilots are truly awful (Red Squadron Pilots are even worse...).

Edited by Astech

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Some people call it power creep but I call it accretion.

Now to be fair FFG is doing an okay job in keeping some of the older models still valuable in play with special releases that re-release older models with an alternative color scheme. However the business model is that each wave comes at least 1 new ship for each (primary faction) which means more ships models and upgrades that will displace older ships and upgrades. Two new waves a year and lets not forget the Movie tie-in waves that will bring another 2 ships (one rebel one Imperial) and you are looking at no fewer than 8 ships a year but it will more likely be 10 ships a year with scum getting a double release to keep up with the movie factions. As for bringing up older models there is on average 2 special releases which has one to two ships each. Do the math 8 new ships and only 4 old ships getting updated. The new simply outnumbers the old.

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And where do you want to lead us with this topic? Should we all commiserate? Should we try to prove you wrong?

I can give you a reason why it isn't awful: the game is named for it, and that alone makes it awesome.

It's full of great fluff.

Sure, if you play competitively in 100 point bogfights, then it might be subpar, but otherwise it's still a frigging X-Wing and I rather have 3 of those than 4 HWK's or some obscure scum ship with no recognizability.

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And where do you want to lead us with this topic? Should we all commiserate? Should we try to prove you wrong?

I can give you a reason why it isn't awful: the game is named for it, and that alone makes it awesome.

It's full of great fluff.

Sure, if you play competitively in 100 point bogfights, then it might be subpar, but otherwise it's still a frigging X-Wing and I rather have 3 of those than 4 HWK's or some obscure scum ship with no recognizability.

Rebuff. 

They should put out a fix for it to make it fun and possibly competitive.  

Sadly, there's a lot fo things in this game that just aren't competitive.  Ex. The Tie Int, Soontir is great, but honestly Carnor  and Turr are decidedly Tier2-not-competitive and the rest are pretty trash.  The PS system is to blame here.  

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And where do you want to lead us with this topic? Should we all commiserate? Should we try to prove you wrong?

I can give you a reason why it isn't awful: the game is named for it, and that alone makes it awesome.

It's full of great fluff.

Sure, if you play competitively in 100 point bogfights, then it might be subpar, but otherwise it's still a frigging X-Wing and I rather have 3 of those than 4 HWK's or some obscure scum ship with no recognizability.

Rebuff. 

They should put out a fix for it to make it fun and possibly competitive.  

Sadly, there's a lot fo things in this game that just aren't competitive.  Ex. The Tie Int, Soontir is great, but honestly Carnor  and Turr are decidedly Tier2-not-competitive and the rest are pretty trash.  The PS system is to blame here.

Oh, I wouldn't mind a buff here or there but I think the curent problems with iconic ships slipping out of the spotlight is due to inherent design constraints.

The TIE Interceptor, for instance, would be well served with more maneuver options but unfortunately the game is limited by only having up to speed 3 available for turns and banks.

Other than that, other competitive modes than the standard dogfight might be developed to make more use of certain characteristics. Something that would make large bases less attractive for instance, and would reward very maneuverable ships, like a dense asteroid field.

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Agreed on the Interceptor maneuvers. I could see an Interceptor title giving them speed 3 sloops, or the ability to use an action to turn a 3 bank into a 3 sloop (which would at least give the option of double-stressing to keep a focus after the movement and 180), in exchange for losing that extra mod slot from the Royal Guard title giving them a new lease of life. Not a massive one, but enough to get them back into the fold somewhat. The problem with many of the Int aces is that they're simply not that good compared to Soontir, or even an RGP. 

 

The X-wing is harder to buff, though. It's decidedly middle of the road, which is kind of what it was designed to be. The problem isn't so much that it's bad, as that it's average. So average, that there are many things better than it because they're supposed to be. The B-wing is a slower ship that hits harder because it's supposed to. The T-70 is a few generations newer and is therefore superior. The E-wing is it's high-tech cousin with go-faster stripes. The Y-wing is specialised, and therefore has a niche. 

It's tough to make a buff for a ship be thematic without breaking the idea that it's a backbone ship rather than something insanely powerful. It's also tough to make a buff for a ship that has Biggs and Wedge as pilots; increase it's defence and Biggs becomes a bigger nightmare, increase it's offence and Wedge becomes arguably too strong. It's similar to the Soontir issue with the Interceptors: how do you buff the Int without making Fel overpowered, but give the other aces a decent shot at table time?

 

I'm sure it'll happen eventually. I'd imagine it's a project that's been on the boil at FFG for a long while now. It's one of those ones that's critical to get right, because their previous attempts at mini-buffs (Targeting Astromech, I'm looking at you) have been flops. As was mentioned, it's the namesake of the game. I'm sure they want to be careful with it.

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The thing is, the X-wings arnt middle of the road ships, They are always seen keeping up with Tie Interceptors, Tie Defenders, and in most situations , victoriously. Sure, that has something to do with the pilots, sure, but at that same token then, FFG is allowing Wedge, Wes, Hobbie, arguably some of the best pilots ever to step in a starfighter to be passed over by rookies in A-Wings and other ships because quite frankly, the X-wing is useless. And sure, Biggs gets played, but its never to showcase the x-wing, All Biggs is, is an upgrade card that buffs whatever ship is currently under attack,  And that is just crap

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On the one hand, I think X-wings could use a little bump and would like to see that to see them be truly competitive. They are my favorite ship in the Star Wars universe, the name of the game, and should be regularly seen on tables.

On the other hand, I recently went 4-0 in a four round tournament with a four X-wing list (3 T-65s and a T-70) with opponents including Palp Defenders and Parattani ... so not quite as dead as advertised, perhaps.

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The thing is, the X-wings arnt middle of the road ships, They are always seen keeping up with Tie Interceptors, Tie Defenders, and in most situations , victoriously. Sure, that has something to do with the pilots, sure, but at that same token then, FFG is allowing Wedge, Wes, Hobbie, arguably some of the best pilots ever to step in a starfighter to be passed over by rookies in A-Wings and other ships because quite frankly, the X-wing is useless. And sure, Biggs gets played, but its never to showcase the x-wing, All Biggs is, is an upgrade card that buffs whatever ship is currently under attack,  And that is just crap

 

A lot of the reason they keep up with those kinds of ships in the movies/games/<insert media format> is because they're supposed to be the heroes. The story becomes kind of short if the plucky would-be hero in the slightly aging and battle-worn X-wing goes up against the technical might of a pair of shiny new Defenders, then get's immediately tractor-ed, ioned, and obliterated in the space of a couple of seconds. 

I haven't watched any of Rebels, but someone was telling me that a B-wing melted a cruiser in one shot, a YT-2400 blew up an Arquitens class, and something about a TIE Advanced scuttling a corvette solo. Fluff is great when you're watching tv, but it doesn't always translate to solid gameplay.

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Now to be fair FFG is doing an okay job in keeping some of the older models still valuable in play with special releases that re-release older models with an alternative color scheme.

 

 

*cough* defender *cough* interceptor *cough* *hack* Lambda with Palpatine *cough*

 

I do agree, and all the ships that got buffs were totally awesome and deserved it. With Imp Aces + Vets they went a long way towards fixing 3 ships. However, X-wings are still out of it, and that's sad.

And where do you want to lead us with this topic?

 

To the moon? In all seriousness, it went like this:

"Why would I take a Rookie pilot when I could take Sabine?"

"I wouldn't take the rookie, what else would I take instead"

fast forward 10 minutes...

"wow, that's a lot of really good replacements for a Rookie pilot."

"I've got to tell people about this!"

End internal monologue.

 

It was intended as an open statement to the community, to encourage discussion.

Sadly, there's a lot fo things in this game that just aren't competitive

 

 

I definitely agree here. Nearly every generic ship in the game is ignored unless its absurdly undercosted (contracted scout, Lothal rebel), simply cheap (Z-95, TIE fighter) or has a niche (autoblaster/TLT y-wing). The named pilots are even worse - have you  ever seen someone play with Fel's Wrath or Graz the Hunter? The tourney-fixated people like to say "at least one or two pilots from each set get used..." but that's horrible. I want my hundreds of TIE pilots to all be at least marginally competitive. I want to put triple Punishers or X-wings across the table from my opponent and have them not laugh, but go "before I laugh, can this really beat me?"

 

I'm thinking more and more that a 'superglue' set could be in order - a card-only pack with fixes for many ships n the game. The defender was fixed by a single card, so a pack of 15 would pretty much balance out the meta.

 

The TIE Interceptor, for instance, would be well served with more maneuver options but unfortunately the game is limited by only having up to speed 3 available for turns and banks.

 

 

Go Go Star Trek Attack Wing! I can imagine a booster pack (or re-release core set) incorporating 4 banks and turns (6 straight is accomplished via boost). It'd give some variety to what gets released, but would unbalance a few ships (Juno Eclipse comes to mind).

 

I could see the next Interceptor fix being two modification cards:

1. After executing a speed 2 or higher bank maneuver, you may rotate your ship 180 degrees. Then, receive 1 stress token. 1 point.

2.When you reveal a [hard turn either way] maneuver, you may instead treat it as [tallon roll of same bearing] with the same speed. f you do so, receive 1 stress token before executing the maneuver.

You can have one of the two with autothrusters, or both without turret protection.

It's tough to make a buff for a ship be thematic without breaking the idea that it's a backbone ship rather than something insanely powerful...

 

 

Yep, in some aspects. Increasing Biggs' health will only ensure that every subsequent Rebel Ace has low health of its own in order to balance out Biggs protection lists. However, I could see Wedge with a primary attack value of 4 not being overpowered at all. Think of him as a smaller, more expensive Lothal Rebel without the protection of a massive hull+shield supply.

 

The X-wing fix will arrive eventually. It'd sell to good for FFG not to do it. I just hope it's before wave 20 (that's the foretold point at which my wallet spontaneously explodes).

 

The thing is, the X-wings arnt middle of the road ships, They are always seen keeping up with Tie Interceptors, Tie Defenders, and in most situations , victoriously.

 

 

I completely agree with this. Anybody who's read the X-wing books by Stackpole and Co. knows that the X-wing is superior in every way except speed (where it is slightly below the Interceptor) to most of the TIE line. Their firepower is also vastly higher (quad-linked cannons tear things apart, and proton torpedoes bring down capital ships). [spoiler ALERT] Even in Rogue One, an average squadron of pilots in X-wings dogfights with the Empire's finest (Vader's Black Fleet) and does alright. X-wings were multi-role, but their primary purpose was space superiority, to be topped only by the Defender (and possibly Phantom, Chiss Claw-craft and Corralskipper) in their time.

On the other hand, I recently went 4-0 in a four round tournament with a four X-wing list (3 T-65s and a T-70) with opponents including Palp Defenders and Parattani ... so not quite as dead as advertised, perhaps. 

 

Congrats on an impressive result against the odds - you must be quite a pilot!

 

However, your conclusion is an observational error. Even if you and your opponents rolled average dice ], the timing of good and bad rolls can make all the difference. Perhaps you had slightly hot dice, and your opponent's were slightly cold. etc, etc. No doubt you deserved a win, but one observation does not a sample make.

 

When looking at tournament data, the top 16 is about as small a spread as is acceptable. If you compute the average win/loss ratio of lists including X ship, it should hover around 0.45-0.55 (if you assume an equal distribution of rookie through veteran players use the same list). Triple Jumpmasters and Palp-Defenders are above this margin, and you'll find non-Biggs T-65 lists to be under-performing on the whole. Skilled players will individually jump above the average, but the average remains the same.

 

I haven't watched any of Rebels...

 

 

[spoilerS!]

 

It's all true. The B-wing composite laser simply must be incorporated into X-wing. Interceptors can't repel firepower of that magnitude. The YT-2400 thing is a gimmick that Rebels used as a convenient plot-point, not an illustration of the ship's capabilities (the YT-2400 had already been disabled). Also that TIE Advanced scene made me respect Vader as a pilot a lot more. I'm looking forward to seeing Thrawn's Defenders finally destroy the Ghost.

 

The Millennium Falcon, we know, went through enormous modification before becoming the workhorse it is in the movies. The Ghost, on the other hand, has Chopper maintaining it... And Zeb... I'm surprised it made it into the game, really.

Edited by Astech

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The thing is, the X-wings arnt middle of the road ships, They are always seen keeping up with Tie Interceptors, Tie Defenders, and in most situations , victoriously. Sure, that has something to do with the pilots, sure, but at that same token then, FFG is allowing Wedge, Wes, Hobbie, arguably some of the best pilots ever to step in a starfighter to be passed over by rookies in A-Wings and other ships because quite frankly, the X-wing is useless. And sure, Biggs gets played, but its never to showcase the x-wing, All Biggs is, is an upgrade card that buffs whatever ship is currently under attack,  And that is just crap

 

A lot of the reason they keep up with those kinds of ships in the movies/games/<insert media format> is because they're supposed to be the heroes. The story becomes kind of short if the plucky would-be hero in the slightly aging and battle-worn X-wing goes up against the technical might of a pair of shiny new Defenders, then get's immediately tractor-ed, ioned, and obliterated in the space of a couple of seconds. 

I haven't watched any of Rebels, but someone was telling me that a B-wing melted a cruiser in one shot, a YT-2400 blew up an Arquitens class, and something about a TIE Advanced scuttling a corvette solo. Fluff is great when you're watching tv, but it doesn't always translate to solid gameplay.

 

 

The thing is, heroes cant do the job if the tool they are using is ineffective. You dont see Wedge Antilles fly a Y-Wing, why, cause when he does, guess what, HE GETS SHOT DOWN BECAUSE ITS A INEFFECTIVE SHIP. And then gets captured and sent to Kessel. You cant chalk everything up to fluff and "plot armor". The M Falcon, sure, was a ancient spacecraft by X-Wing standards, but the fact is it has been modified to the point where it is a war ship that can defend and obliterate fighter squadrons. 

 

Its not the pilots alone, Han solo would have been blown up if he didnt keep modifying the falcon, and if Wedge wasnt so attuned to the x-wing fighter, and the ship being so solid in design, he would also have died long ago. as well.

 

So just accept the x-wing is just better then you want to believe, its not JUST fluff, its a good ship.

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I doesn't have to be meta competitive to be fun. Last week I emulated Paul Heavers 13 Championship list BBXX

Yes it has Biggs, but I still won the game against a Vader (with Raider upgrades) Carnor Jax, and the Inquisitor.

Would I win at a LGS...depends on how I fly.

Win a Regional (Never tell me the odds....but they suk)?

National has 0 chance.

I like the game. It's not perfect. And there is never ever ever gonna be a "right way" to play other than having fun. If your playing 100 pt, tournament, regional, national, epic, 77 plus, missions, or with your friend John; so long as your having fun, then you are doing it right.

Edited by Darth Vilgore

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I doesn't have to be meta competitive to be fun. 

 

 

True. But can't something be competitive and fun? The Defender manages it, as does the Interceptor and pretty much the whole Scum faction.

Imho, making kturn after kturn while getting an action and an extra evade for that fantastic flying is anything but "fun".

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So just accept the x-wing is just better then you want to believe, its not JUST fluff, its a good ship.

 

 

Eh... no? Just because you think it is - and you're entitled to do so - doesn't mean others have to. Looking at it purely as a game piece, it's average across the board. Sure, the tv shows, movies, and books might want to hype it up through story and legend, but that's not actually going to effect it's stats or position in the game. 

I get it; you're a big SW fan and are heavy into the lore and EU. That's great for you, but objectively, the ship is perfectly average.

 

 

 

True. But can't something be competitive and fun? The Defender manages it, as does the Interceptor and pretty much the whole Scum faction.

 

 

To be fair, the Interceptor is only really competitive with Soontir, and even then there are a lot of counters now. Also "the whole Scum faction" is a bit too broad, considering you're about as likely to see Star Vipers and Khiraxz fighters in a top tier list as you are a Rookie Pilot (hey, look at that, I dragged it on topic!). Even the Scyk fix isn't thrusting it quite into the limelight, but it's at least on a par with the Mist Hunter in tier 2 now. Heck, even Aggressors are flagging a bit; I can't remember the last time I saw a pair of those used.

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I wouldn't take four Xwings to a tournament I its current state (ok, maybe I would anyway) but it's got decent firepower and its got some speed for positioning if you've got a strategic spot you want to get to. If the rest of your list is capable of covering for the lack of repositioning in the Xwing and you fly smart with them, you can actually do pretty well.

They kinda fall on their face though in a straight joust since just about everything has repositioning abilities. Also, the action efficiency sucks and wouldn't matter anyway with how few actions it has. The dial has insultingly low green compared to newer ships in the game.. Looking at you ARC.

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So just accept the x-wing is just better then you want to believe, its not JUST fluff, its a good ship.

 

 

I think there are something like 20 better builds then the X-wing , and at least 3 for any purpose you want. Some guy wrote a post about it today...

Bonus points, however, for the passionate backstory highlighting just how fantastic the X-wing is outside of X-wing Miniatures Game.

 

... considering you're about as likely to see Star Vipers and Khiraxz fighters in a top tier list as you are a Rookie Pilot...

 

 

Starvipers - agreed. The Kihraxz is about to get a fantastic tool in Scavenger crane for using ordnance. And They're better, at least, than the X-wing.

 

If the rest of your list is capable of covering for the lack of repositioning in the Xwing and you fly smart with them, you can actually do pretty well. 

 

 

If you're a significantly superior pilot than your opponent, X-wings are a decent choice. Predicting another's moves perfectly means that arc-dodging is unnecessary. However, against an equally matched opponent, they can correct maneuvering mistakes where you can't, and the whle thing goes downhill from there. I would take a kitted out Soontir or Whisper over an entire 100 pts of Rookie Pilots, hands down.

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I would be extremely surprised if we didn't get some kind of "blue squadron" special release this year. General Merrick was a notable character in R1 and he'll definitely get a release. It seems a no brainer that we'll get some kind of boost for the T-65. We'll see, I guess, but can anyone see NOT getting some blue squadron pilots like Merrick?

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The problem isn't so much that it's bad, as that it's average. So average, that there are many things better than it because they're supposed to be. The B-wing is a slower ship that hits harder because it's supposed to. The T-70 is a few generations newer and is therefore superior. The E-wing is it's high-tech cousin with go-faster stripes. The Y-wing is specialised, and therefore has a niche. 

It's tough to make a buff for a ship be thematic without breaking the idea that it's a backbone ship rather than something insanely powerful. It's also tough to make a buff for a ship that has Biggs and Wedge as pilots; increase it's defence and Biggs becomes a bigger nightmare, increase it's offence and Wedge becomes arguably too strong. It's similar to the Soontir issue with the Interceptors: how do you buff the Int without making Fel overpowered, but give the other aces a decent shot at table time?

 

I'm sure it'll happen eventually. I'd imagine it's a project that's been on the boil at FFG for a long while now. It's one of those ones that's critical to get right, because their previous attempts at mini-buffs (Targeting Astromech, I'm looking at you) have been flops. As was mentioned, it's the namesake of the game. I'm sure they want to be careful with it.

This.

It seems the whining starts-up on the 65s about once a week. There are so many reasons our beloved X-wing is what it is and I think FFG has done a very good job with keeping the game growing but keep all ships casually playable, with the exception of the Punisher. The X-Wing is the old namesake standby that is the heart of the game. Like the TIE fighter, it sees little high-competition table time, but uber-powerful Biggs and Howlrunner show up on some sharp squads every once in a while. You can't have your cake (a growing, healthy game) and eat it too (your favorite ship is always as good or better than all the others).

Suck it up, enjoy the entirety of our wonderful game; we'll all have gripe points, and that's healthy, and what makes forums fun. just don't get out too much wine, without having any cheese.....

DF5C86C7-DEC5-4678-A013-5D94DDE0914F.png

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What's there to dislike about the T65? With the current state of the game, they are now considered on the cheaper end of the rebel spectrum as far as competitive ships go. At 22 points with IA + R5 astromech (or R2 or R4D6, whichever you'd prefer), they are arguably more tanky than a naked Bwing, punch about as hard as a pumped up Awing.

 

For less than 30 points, you have access to very powerful abilities. Biggs, Wes, Wedge, Garven (preferably with VI), Tarn. Wedge + Crackshot can damage or even outright kill most fragile aces like Fenn Rau and Soontir Fel; Wes is an extremely hard counter against current favourites such as OL, Poe Doraemon, Dengaroo, Darth vader and so on. Garven has a very useful ability that makes him a very fun 28 point to use in casual games, and could possibly find his way into lower tier competitive lists. Tarn + R7 is still a very point efficient defensive ship that can take quite a lot of beating before going down. Biggs is Biggs, so nothing much to explain there.

Sure, not every pilot is usable currently. Look at Hobbie, Luke, Porkins. However, such binder warmers exist for nearly every other ship currently out there too. Kir Kanos, Arvel, Lando, Evril, Hera (ghost), all the non Vader TIEadv, all non-Corran Ewings, Valor to name a few. My point is that this problem isnt limited to only the T65 Xwing, but also for so many other ships currently in the game. 


tl;dr, the T65 has now found its niche as an extremely useful, affordable combat support ship at the 25-30 point range that is surprisingly difficult to take down (thanks to IA). It is definitely not as effective in its original role as a superiority fighter, so maybe we should stop evaluating the T65 based on that, and accept that it is nearly unrivaled in its current role

Edited by Duraham

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 how do you buff the Int without making Fel overpowered, but give the other aces a decent shot at table time?

There's a couple ways. First, only make the buff good for generics. Second, think about the abilities that make the named pilots potentially overpowered, and word the improvement in such a way that it doesn't really work synergistically with the named pilot abilities. Third, create an opportunity cost. Easiest case I can think of is to make the buff genuinely good, but make it compete for a slot already occupied by something people may not want to give up. The Defender titles and the Advances Targeting Computer are excellent examples. The titles create two ships that are polar opposites of each other, and the ATC creates an instance where the offensive player is trading the surety of one extra result for losing the chance to potentially modify up to three. So if you make the buff a modification, people will have to decide between it and Integrated Astromech. I know people may not like the idea of getting rid of that, but if the other buff is genuinely worth it then you create an instance where the player is fielding what they want to fly instead of the "best mathematical choice". Also, it stops you from having to design your buff while always keeping IA in mind.

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My current favorite buff idea is to straight out give T-65 and T-70 X-wings 4-attack with a FAQ change. If powercreep is already happening, lets bring the X-wing onboard. I mean, X-wings do have 4 lasers, so 4-attack is 'thematic'.

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Sure, not every pilot is usable currently. Look at Hobbie, Luke, Porkins. However, such binder warmers exist for nearly every other ship currently out there too. Kir Kanos, Arvel, Lando, Evril, Hera (ghost), all the non Vader TIEadv, all non-Corran Ewings, Valor to name a few.

And let's not forget the king of all utterly useless ships, Fel's Wrath.

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