Anyone else sick of lifeboat flotillas?

[LordTesla 287]

If you want to see commanders on base 100+ point ships, there needs to be some kind of incentive other than "mah immersionz"

What if there was a Flagship upgrade card, large base ships only, add a fleet command slot to the ship?

As long as there is an upgrade that gives Rebels all the grav shift stuff, sure. Otherwise, I don't want to lose an asymmetric advantages just to satisfy your immersion needs.

If card art is any indication, you soon will.

Which art?

Entrapment formation is all star destroyers.

Curious. I suppose we'll see.

And, now that I think of it, it may be more that it is a buff.to bring some parity between the fleets? Not so much as an asymmetric balance to Grav Well, but more about balance?

EF to balance Ozzel

Raise shields to balance ... interdoctor?

All fighter to balance the sluggish rebels as compared to the general Imp speed?

I mean, what would Imperials really gain with Fleet Command that they don't already have?

Deadly arcs and the missing Fleet Command for Concentrate Fire. Lets all your ships add a die to their attack pool. Just speculation. Edited January 8, 2017 by LordTesla

[Vykes 1,927]

It's a really interesting idea that the Fleet Command upgrades are to make up for some of the synergy advantages that the Imperials have.  Very interesting.  

 

Teslaaaaaa, We know what the missing upgrade is going to be, right?  The CF token will almost certainly be.... well, I don't need to actually say it, do I?

 

 

The Admiral's certainly a judgmental one, isn't he?  I guess he doesn't like the flotilla lifeboats either.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Vykes

[Drasnighta 26,831]

Today.  I started my Sato Flotilla at Distance 3, Facing my Long Board Edge.

 

First activation, I used Salvation's Squadron to relay a VCX command to itself, to fly out, grab the VIP, and then Move it next to Sato...

Sato then activated, picked it up, and moved forward...  still facing the Board Edge, mere centimeters from it...

 

It then Slowed down to Speed 0 in Turn 2..  It spent the rest of the game relaying a single Squadron Command either To or Through that VCX - as I only had One.

 

It could not move.  Any move would have removed it from the table.  And with it, lost the VIP...  

...

 

 

It survived until the end of the Game, netting me 58+50 points for the Flotilla, Sato, Bomber Command and the VIP...

 

 

My enemy had all the time in the world to fly over and crump him...  hell, he even had 6(!) firesprays in his list to Do that Job if he wanted to...  He deployed opposite them....

 

 

But he didn't.

 

While I keep getting away with **** like that...  I will keep my Commander on my Flotilla.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Drasnighta

[FourDogsInaHorseSuit 1,486]

If you want to see commanders on base 100+ point ships, there needs to be some kind of incentive other than "mah immersionz"

What if there was a Flagship upgrade card, large base ships only, add a fleet command slot to the ship?

As long as there is an upgrade that gives Rebels all the grav shift stuff, sure. Otherwise, I don't want to lose an asymmetric advantages just to satisfy your immersion needs.

If card art is any indication, you soon will.

Which art?

Entrapment formation is all star destroyers.

Curious. I suppose we'll see.

And, now that I think of it, it may be more that it is a buff.to bring some parity between the fleets? Not so much as an asymmetric balance to Grav Well, but more about balance?

EF to balance Ozzel

Raise shields to balance ... interdoctor?

All fighter to balance the sluggish rebels as compared to the general Imp speed?

I mean, what would Imperials really gain with Fleet Command that they don't already have?

Redundancy.

[jpersons73 86]

Well I dont hate them.. but even in our Real Life Navy Fleet the Admiral is not on the Carrier. The smallest ship in the fleet is where the Admiral is sitting at. Easy for them to make a quick escape if need be. IMO makes perfect sense 

[LordTesla 287]

It's a really interesting idea that the Fleet Command upgrades are to make up for some of the synergy advantages that the Imperials have.  Very interesting.  

 

Teslaaaaaa, We know what the missing upgrade is going to be, right?  The CF token will almost certainly be.... well, I don't need to actually say it, do I?

 

 

The Admiral's certainly a judgmental one, isn't he?  I guess he doesn't like the flotilla lifeboats either.

Oh I think there's a good chance we know what the confire token for fleet support will be.

I also REALLY REALLY REALLY hope (are you listening FFG??!!) The Admiral Piett is the Imperial Ackbar.

And no, I don't think he approves at all. I bet you he's thinking something like: "why would you command your fleet from a flotilla? Don't you know how vulnerable you are to a 1 man fighter? I'm much safer on my Super Star Destroyer. Intensify the forward batteries. I don't want anything to get through!!"

[Gottmituns205 1,601]

I think they are just...not in the right spirit.

 

Gonzo's and GR75's can slind 9 fighters (3 squads a piece) in with "expanded hanger bays" and their admiral can hide out....bright hope can laugh at a rhymerball...it's just...meh

[Chucknuckle 2,811]

Disagree entirely.

Noted.

You are, however, not representative of the player base at large.

Armada and X Wing live or die based on their 'skin', Armada more so than X Wing. The wider community would drop this top-heavy mess of a game like a hot potato if it wasn't Star Wars.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

 

Disagree entirely.

Noted.

You are, however, not representative of the player base at large.

Armada and X Wing live or die based on their 'skin', Armada more so than X Wing. The wider community would drop this top-heavy mess of a game like a hot potato if it wasn't Star Wars.

 

 

Really?

 

Do you have something scientific, or at least, non-anecdotal, to back that up?

 

Genuinely Curious.

 

 

I mean, taken as your statement, I feel I would agree on the X-Wing side of things, since we have a systematic basis of representation - The Flight path system is used by multiple other games (Star Trek: Attack Wing and D&D: Attack Wing), and neither are anywhere near as Popular as X-Wing itself...  

 

 

But there's no basis of comparison for Armada.  At all.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Drasnighta

[Chucknuckle 2,811]

Do you have something scientific, or at least, non-anecdotal, to back that up?

Nope.

Lucky the forum's not a peer reviewed scientific journal, isn't it?

[Drasnighta 26,831]

 

Do you have something scientific, or at least, non-anecdotal, to back that up?

Nope.

Lucky the forum's not a peer reviewed scientific journal, isn't it?

 

 

As I edited - I was generally curious.  

 

 

Because when someone makes a blanket statement about a player base at large, I'd like to know what's gone into a statement...  

 

Because, to be honest...  I like being correct.  Most people like being correct...  And I'd be too scared to make such a statement without something to back me up

Edited January 8, 2017 by Drasnighta

[Chucknuckle 2,811]

Do you have something scientific, or at least, non-anecdotal, to back that up?

Nope.

Lucky the forum's not a peer reviewed scientific journal, isn't it?

 

As I edited - I was generally curious.  

 

 

Because when someone makes a blanket statement about a player base at large, I'd like to know what's gone into a statement...  

 

Because, to be honest...  I like being correct.  Most people like being correct...  And I'd be too scared to make such a statement without something to back me up

Sorry, I hit reply before your edit, I thought you were just being snarky.

There's no basis for comparison between Armada and other games, since only Armada uses the Armada rule-set. But I'd bet London to a brick that without the Star Wars skin that Armada wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it currently is. The overwhelming factor in it's success is, IMO, the Star Wars theme.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

 

 

 

Do you have something scientific, or at least, non-anecdotal, to back that up?

Nope.

Lucky the forum's not a peer reviewed scientific journal, isn't it?

 

 

As I edited - I was generally curious.  

 

 

Because when someone makes a blanket statement about a player base at large, I'd like to know what's gone into a statement...  

 

Because, to be honest...  I like being correct.  Most people like being correct...  And I'd be too scared to make such a statement without something to back me up

 

Sorry, I hit reply before your edit, I thought you were just being snarky.

There's no basis for comparison between Armada and other games, since only Armada uses the Armada rule-set. But I'd bet London to a brick that without the Star Wars skin that Armada wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it currently is. The overwhelming factor in it's success is, IMO, the Star Wars theme.

 

 

 

I won't disagree it is a major factor to its success, for sure...  But stating it would not be a success without it, or with any other skin, potentially does it a serious disservice.  It is a derivative set of rules from the success of X-Wing.  

Is it a perfect ruleset?  No, no it is not.  But I have no game on which I could ascribe to be so.  Considering the "troubles" that other massed fleet games have seemingly had (since the 'death' of Battlefleet Gothic), I would say that we've been waiting for a ruleset that scratches certain itches...

[NakedDex 2,611]

I, and several other people I know, got into this game because it scratched that exact itch that Battlefleet Gothic left behind (in some ways better, in others not so). I'm not claiming to be be thrown voice of the majority here, but I think to claim that without a Star Wars skin the game would immediately die shows a lack of interest and understanding of the wider tabletop gaming community.

In terms of X-wing, the entire game is based on the old Wings of Glory system, which was decent but flawed. FFG refined it, where WizKids just reskinned it and added needless complexity for the sake of theme. The result was X-wing being popular because it was a solid game, where Attack Wing is an unbalanced, poorly executed, and dismally supported mess because the theme was pursued over the gameplay (not to mention the models look dreadful, and have no scale matching).

[Ardaedhel 10,840]

top-heavy

Huh?

[Lobokai 1,518]

It could be very thematic to have an Admiral on a flotilla. Both sides have a long and distinguished record of trying to hit VIPs in transit and an Imperial Fleet going after an intelligence lead just to be intercepted by Alliance ships before they take out the respected figure is about as Star Wars a scenario as I can imagine. Maybe those who are crying foul need to embrace the notion that someone telling their story instead of yours is not a good reason to complain. And those unwilling to give any number of good reasons your commander is in a small ship, need to wrap their mind around a little cooperative story telling instead of being dense and saying "so I can win" when asked about their choice of flagship.

I see lazy minds on both sides of this. Shame on both camps. Tell a story, have fun, try to win... Not phone it in on two of three.

[Darth Lupine 1,556]

I dislike flotillas intensely and what they have done to the game more so.....but this does not matter, as it is what it is, so while I don't like it, I am adapting to it, because in war, if you don't adapt your plan when the situation changes, you are going to lose.

 

The Empire does not like to lose.

[Amanal 2,557]

My fencing coach taught me that if you are doing something and it works keep doing it. It is on your opponent to change what they are doing and make it so that you have to change what you are doing.

 

Please note that the people doing it will say something to the extent that they appreciate the advantage of you sending 50 points after their command flotilla. When in fact the flotilla plus commander is worth 50 points give or take. There are plenty of rouge squadrons that can take on a flotilla for the 2-4 turns needed to kill it. 3 Firesprays would do it 99% of the time with no troubles.

 

But just saying I don't like it and I want to do as I am doing goes against every bit of tactical advice I was ever given by my fencing coaches.

[LordTesla 287]

I think today Boba and a Decimator are going lifeboat hunting

[BiggsIRL 6,717]

Hmm... a good thing to think about - what is the best things to go lifeboat hunting?  Decimators WOULD work well.  Firesprays can get the job done too.  A Dodonna's Pride / Engine Tech CR-90B would be a champ as well (for 55 points though).  Maybe leading shots / engine techs (51 points) - same price as the TRC-90s everyone and their kid brother takes.

 

I guess a Raider-II w/ Leading shots could do the same job.  52 points but more damage potential so less need to double ram.

 

Salvation w/ Sato & H-9?

 

Arquitens w/ Vader & Capt Jonus?

[BiggsIRL 6,717]

YT-2400s if left sufficiently alone could also go hunting for one, but it would take at least 3 to effectively bring one down (average of 2ish hits means you'd need at least 3 to reliably deal with the scatter) and that is 48 points minimum and could take 4ish turns to do the job.

[Onidsen 571]

Hmm... a good thing to think about - what is the best things to go lifeboat hunting?  Decimators WOULD work well.  Firesprays can get the job done too.  A Dodonna's Pride / Engine Tech CR-90B would be a champ as well (for 55 points though).  Maybe leading shots / engine techs (51 points) - same price as the TRC-90s everyone and their kid brother takes.

 

I guess a Raider-II w/ Leading shots could do the same job.  52 points but more damage potential so less need to double ram.

 

Salvation w/ Sato & H-9?

 

Arquitens w/ Vader & Capt Jonus?

 

I might just do a CR90-B with SW-7s. If I can get a double-arc - and with the CR90, that's not extremely difficult - that's a guaranteed 6 damage. If, in the highly unlucky event that you roll no accuracies at all, they've still either burned their scatter or they are down to 1 hull point left, at which point you can ram. And all for the low, low cost of 44 points. If you really need engine techs to catch the lifeboat, 52 points works too.

 

For Imps, I'd honestly just go with an ISD with H9s and Gunnery Teams. Or if you're thinking of a VSD, Jerjerrod, Quad Turbolaser Turrets, Warlord and Jonus, but that's a very specialized build. (I think it could be a bery powerful one, though. Add in a second Vic with Corruptor, some activation padding and a decent bomber swarm, and you've got a decent list. I might go build a fleet based on this)

Edited January 8, 2017 by Onidsen

[RogueCommander 236]

Last time I went in the chase for an Admirals lifeboat, I think I sent a TRC90 after it when he pulled the full stop in a corner. I was on him by turn three. I think Decimators are good too, but a Raider might be best for Imps.

[Vykes 1,927]

 

Hmm... a good thing to think about - what is the best things to go lifeboat hunting?  Decimators WOULD work well.  Firesprays can get the job done too.  A Dodonna's Pride / Engine Tech CR-90B would be a champ as well (for 55 points though).  Maybe leading shots / engine techs (51 points) - same price as the TRC-90s everyone and their kid brother takes.

 

I guess a Raider-II w/ Leading shots could do the same job.  52 points but more damage potential so less need to double ram.

 

Salvation w/ Sato & H-9?

 

Arquitens w/ Vader & Capt Jonus?

 

I might just do a CR90-B with SW-7s. If I can get a double-arc - and with the CR90, that's not extremely difficult - that's a guaranteed 6 damage. If, in the highly unlucky event that you roll no accuracies at all, they've still either burned their scatter or they are down to 1 hull point left, at which point you can ram. And all for the low, low cost of 44 points. If you really need engine techs to catch the lifeboat, 52 points works too.

 

For Imps, I'd honestly just go with an ISD with H9s and Gunnery Teams. Or if you're thinking of a VSD, Jerjerrod, Quad Turbolaser Turrets, Warlord and Jonus, but that's a very specialized build. (I think it could be a bery powerful one, though. Add in a second Vic with Corruptor, some activation padding and a decent bomber swarm, and you've got a decent list. I might go build a fleet based on this)

 

 

CR90B with SW-7 is my swiss army knife, and the exact thing I used a few days ago.  Double arced, concentrate fire, couldn't get a single bloody accuracy.  6 damage, down the drain.  Stupid stupid scatter. (and yeah, it was even down to 1 HP from an earlier volley).  Engine techs really would have been useful there. Still, that's a bit of an anomaly and I do think the set up is worthwhile.  

 

I don't like creating dedicated counter ships in most situations, because they tend to operate in a vacuum and can be less than fun to try to fit into other situations when they arise.  The SW-7 is one that I like, but an MC30 with H9 might be fun as it can go after Flotillas and pick on Raiders, Corvettes, and other small ships like a commerce Raider.  Pricey?  Yes, but it's fast enough and  has enough utility that it's not just a one trick pony.  Now... if I could only figure out how to use them. 

 

The VSD based fleet actually sounds like a lot of fun, might end up building towards it with a CC list I've been trying to formulate. 

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

I think today Boba and a Decimator are going lifeboat hunting

Bossk and CR90B-SW7 too. Even whatever which could go with engine techs.