Anyone else sick of lifeboat flotillas?

[Kristjan 218]

This is just one of those things were theme takes a back seat to game mechanics. Putting your Admiral on an expensive ship just gives your opponent even more reason to focus it down. It's also a good idea, especially in a tournament, to spread your points around as much as possible.

[Onidsen 571]

 

If you want to see commanders on base 100+ point ships, there needs to be some kind of incentive other than "mah immersionz"

What if there was a Flagship upgrade card, large base ships only, add a fleet command slot to the ship?

 

 

I like this one - though I prefer medium and large ships instead of just large ships. An AFII or a Vic could be a Fleet Command Ship. Even an Interdictor could (in fact, in SW:Rebels, it was). I'd make it an officer upgrade, so it can compete with other powerful upgrades (like Minister Tua for an ISD1 or a Vic/'dictor):

 

Flag Officer: 9 pts

You gain a [Fleet Command] icon on your upgrade bar.

 

You may only equip this card to your flagship.

 

You cannot equip this card to a small ship.

 

The points cost was kind of arbitrary , but it has to cost enough that it doesn't put the Pelta out of business. If it's too low, then the Pelta dies an obscure death because any ship can get it easily.

[Gadgetron 487]

Personally i find it cowardly to not put your commander on your biggest ship. Flotillas are a Tiny ship to me, not a small lol

Personally, I find it douchey to call someone a coward for implementing strategy that is legal and makes sense. But I'll know that I have your respect when you kill my commander and biggest ship together because I presented them to you in one nice package.

Personally I find it douchey to use douchey tactics. But to each their own.

This is just one of those things were theme takes a back seat to game mechanics. Putting your Admiral on an expensive ship just gives your opponent even more reason to focus it down. It's also a good idea, especially in a tournament, to spread your points around as much as possible.

I think that's part of the problem, theme should mesh with mechanics. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[RogueCommander 236]

If you want to see commanders on base 100+ point ships, there needs to be some kind of incentive other than "mah immersionz"

What if there was a Flagship upgrade card, large base ships only, add a fleet command slot to the ship?

As long as there is an upgrade that gives Rebels all the grav shift stuff, sure. Otherwise, I don't want to lose an asymmetric advantages just to satisfy your immersion needs.

[pyqz 200]

Personal insults because someone doesn't play the game the way you want them to play. Man I love the internet.

I like the Flag Officer idea a lot. Personally I'm fine with the Pelta dying an obscure death. Even with the fleet commands I'm 65% sure it still sucks.

[RogueCommander 236]

Personally i find it cowardly to not put your commander on your biggest ship. Flotillas are a Tiny ship to me, not a small lol

Personally, I find it douchey to call someone a coward for implementing strategy that is legal and makes sense. But I'll know that I have your respect when you kill my commander and biggest ship together because I presented them to you in one nice package.

Personally I find it douchey to use douchey tactics. But to each their own.

This is just one of those things were theme takes a back seat to game mechanics. Putting your Admiral on an expensive ship just gives your opponent even more reason to focus it down. It's also a good idea, especially in a tournament, to spread your points around as much as possible.

I think that's part of the problem, theme should mesh with mechanics. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Nobody said they were mutually exclusive. Tactics are tactics, it's legal. I got really annoyed once when I lost a ship by getting hung up near an obstacle and got engine teched to death by ramming while my opponent was able to heal because a tiny portion of his ship was on the station. Gamey? Maybe. Douchey? At the time, Inthought so. Legal? Totally. Did I need to get over it and not fall into the trap again? Yep.

Get over it and try your best not denigrate people for playing the game how they like. It brings things down.

Edited January 7, 2017 by RogueCommander

[Gadgetron 487]

Personally i find it cowardly to not put your commander on your biggest ship. Flotillas are a Tiny ship to me, not a small lol

Personally, I find it douchey to call someone a coward for implementing strategy that is legal and makes sense. But I'll know that I have your respect when you kill my commander and biggest ship together because I presented them to you in one nice package.

Personally I find it douchey to use douchey tactics. But to each their own.

This is just one of those things were theme takes a back seat to game mechanics. Putting your Admiral on an expensive ship just gives your opponent even more reason to focus it down. It's also a good idea, especially in a tournament, to spread your points around as much as possible.

I think that's part of the problem, theme should mesh with mechanics. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Nobody said they were mutually exclusive. Tactics are tactics, it's legal. I got really annoyed once when I lost a ship by getting hung up near an obstacle and got engine teched to death by ramming while my opponent was able to heal because a tiny portion of his ship was on the station. Gamey? Maybe. Douchey? At the time, Inthought so. Legal? Totally. Did I need to get over it and not fall into the trap again? Yep.

Get over it and try your best not denigrate people for playing the game how they like. It brings things down.

So only you can call something douchey? I'll keep that in mind.

As for getting rammed to death, that was a trap sure, the opponent hiding their Commander in a corner, that's not a trap. That was a decision they made to game the system, and often, when the system is gamed, many people describe that with a word only you're allowed to use!

[Vineheart01 6,403]

 

Personally i find it cowardly to not put your commander on your biggest ship. Flotillas are a Tiny ship to me, not a small lol

Personally, I find it douchey to call someone a coward for implementing strategy that is legal and makes sense. But I'll know that I have your respect when you kill my commander and biggest ship together because I presented them to you in one nice package.

 

Never said i'd call someone that: i just view it as cowardly.

 

Despite being a rather competitive xwing player, armada is almost entirely thematic for me. Except for the lifeboat idea i havent come across any lists that doesnt feel starwars big battle-like. 

[NakedDex 2,611]

Viewing it as cowardly isn't any better just because you're not saying it the person's face. I mean, you're entitled to your own thoughts, but it strikes me as a very odd standpoint to take in a game, just because you don't see it as thematic.

[Tirion 2,223]

I personally can't stand the things, because I have always put my Admiral on a ship that my strategy dictates WILL NOT DIE under any circumstances.  AFIIs, MC80s, ISDIIs, each one is built to be a point sink for your list that does not give up any points to your opponent due to tankiness.  (Maybe less the AFII these days).  Wave 5 lets Minister Tua do the same thing with a Interdictor or VSD.

 

Point is - if you are losing a Large base capital ship, you are losing the fight anyway.  Why not put your Admiral on the biggest, nastiest ship in your fleet?  Getting tabled and running away with your 60 point flotilla isn't going to change your ultimate tournament score by that much, and it certainly isn't going to win you the game.  On the other hand, having your flotilla get popped because your opponent was able to out deploy you could end your run in a hurry.  If he or she was on a real flagship, then your opponent actually has to try to bring it down, and that is usually a more difficult proposition.

But what if you don't have a command ship? My regional fleet didn't. It didn't even have anything close to that except..... My flotilla

[Democratus 1,698]

Simple solution would to rule a fleet to be tabled when it's last non-flotilla ship is destroyed.

[FourDogsInaHorseSuit 1,486]

 

 

If you want to see commanders on base 100+ point ships, there needs to be some kind of incentive other than "mah immersionz"

What if there was a Flagship upgrade card, large base ships only, add a fleet command slot to the ship?

As long as there is an upgrade that gives Rebels all the grav shift stuff, sure. Otherwise, I don't want to lose an asymmetric advantages just to satisfy your immersion needs.

 

If card art is any indication, you soon will.

[Mundo 264]

I personally am fine with people using a lifeboat. Let people play how they want to, it's a game!

However, I reserve the right to fly my big tanky ship and/or flotilla hunter in to bushwhack the lifeboat. :-)

[RogueCommander 236]

If you want to see commanders on base 100+ point ships, there needs to be some kind of incentive other than "mah immersionz"

What if there was a Flagship upgrade card, large base ships only, add a fleet command slot to the ship?

As long as there is an upgrade that gives Rebels all the grav shift stuff, sure. Otherwise, I don't want to lose an asymmetric advantages just to satisfy your immersion needs.

If card art is any indication, you soon will.

Which art?

[RogueCommander 236]

Personally i find it cowardly to not put your commander on your biggest ship. Flotillas are a Tiny ship to me, not a small lol

Personally, I find it douchey to call someone a coward for implementing strategy that is legal and makes sense. But I'll know that I have your respect when you kill my commander and biggest ship together because I presented them to you in one nice package.

Personally I find it douchey to use douchey tactics. But to each their own.

This is just one of those things were theme takes a back seat to game mechanics. Putting your Admiral on an expensive ship just gives your opponent even more reason to focus it down. It's also a good idea, especially in a tournament, to spread your points around as much as possible.

I think that's part of the problem, theme should mesh with mechanics. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Nobody said they were mutually exclusive. Tactics are tactics, it's legal. I got really annoyed once when I lost a ship by getting hung up near an obstacle and got engine teched to death by ramming while my opponent was able to heal because a tiny portion of his ship was on the station. Gamey? Maybe. Douchey? At the time, Inthought so. Legal? Totally. Did I need to get over it and not fall into the trap again? Yep.

Get over it and try your best not denigrate people for playing the game how they like. It brings things down.

So only you can call something douchey? I'll keep that in mind.

As for getting rammed to death, that was a trap sure, the opponent hiding their Commander in a corner, that's not a trap. That was a decision they made to game the system, and often, when the system is gamed, many people describe that with a word only you're allowed to use!

It's absolutely a trap!

It's a tactic to try to force a commander to dedicate resources elsewhere. Sorry?

Edited January 7, 2017 by RogueCommander

[NakedDex 2,611]

Simple solution would to rule a fleet to be tabled when it's last non-flotilla ship is destroyed.

Disagree with this. It excludes a lot of playing styles from viability immediately. Capital ships in any list featuring flotilla supported squadrons at it's core become headhunted to end the game quickly, driving them further out of the meta in favour of MSU lists just to prolong the game, or into niche categories. That, in turn, would scuttle any chances of ships like the Interdictor ever seeing competitive play in turn.

The only people who'd benefit from that rule, would be people who don't run flotillas at all.

The nearest you could do to that is "if a player's remaining ship(s) cannot gather a dice pool, that player is declared defeated". That, at least, would prevent someone being an arse with transports and playing keep away until time is called, but only in the case of a singular ship type (although it does prevent it being a potential for future ships).

[Beatty 1,730]

GR 75 with fast Squadrons or Sauadrons with Rogue can slip by and go after the Flag Flotillas and if a local community focuses on them the practice will be nipped in the butt. Right now the Flotillas are still fresh and the best method to eliminate them is not chasing them with point heavy ships but fast Squadrons maybe with a Flotilla support.

The Flag Flotillas may draw away points from the main battle but the death of the Commander is big and the points put into the Flotilla would be about the same as the points you spend to hunt it down. So the argument the you are wasting points chasing it is still a head scratcher. If you send 50 points to hunt down 50 points (being modest) then you lose out on nothing since you have eliminated a fleet wide effect.

I've heard the arguments from both sides but still it is possible to hunt it down without too many points. Heck let's work out the best to do it and punish them for it. With Wave V and all its Rogue abilities and Relays don't tell me you can't afford to send Squadrons off to deal with them. That would mean you will have to hit the flanks with fast moving ships which is what a good player should be doing already.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Beatty

[RogueCommander 236]

I like how I've claimed to have proprietary control over a word. I will prepare for the royalty checks.

[RogueCommander 236]

@Gadgetron - I like how I've claimed to have proprietary control over a word. I will prepare for the royalty checks.

[cynanbloodbane 3,435]

If you want to see commanders on base 100+ point ships, there needs to be some kind of incentive other than "mah immersionz"

What if there was a Flagship upgrade card, large base ships only, add a fleet command slot to the ship?

As long as there is an upgrade that gives Rebels all the grav shift stuff, sure. Otherwise, I don't want to lose an asymmetric advantages just to satisfy your immersion needs.

If card art is any indication, you soon will.

Which art?

For the Experimental Retrofit upgrade? Where? I missed it.

And I fully expect the SSD to be the Imperial Command upgrade ship, as it is featured on 2 of the 3 Command upgrade cards.

[Gadgetron 487]

It's absolutely a trap!

It's a tactic to try to force a commander to dedicate resources elsewhere. Sorry?

That's not a trap... That's as you put it, a tactic.

Edit: a trap would be, say, hiding your fleet on the far side of a forest moon or something.

No one's saying don't do it, you're allowed to by the rules, just saying it's gamey and against all theme that exists in star wars. So when people call it out, don't be offended, if you are, then maybe it's because you subconsciously know it's cheesy.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Gadgetron

[RogueCommander 236]

This is amazing. Now psychoanalysis?

[Vykes 1,927]

This is amazing. Now psychoanalysis?

 

I guess you should be paying us to learn ya something right. But deep down you know it....

 

Ben!

[homedrone 253]

What's the problem with this? Is the argument it's not in theme? Or is it that it's OP?

As far as OP goes, it's really not a big deal. So what if you can't kill their admiral cause they are in a corner. If you kill everything else you will still probably win. Can't table them cause of that? If you killed all their other ships, you probably still won, so.. where's the problem?  And you CAN make a fleet that has a plan to hunt those flotilla.

As far as theme, Dodona or Mon Mothma, even someone like Tarkin "out of the battle" in a "jeep" like generals in WW2 seems totally plausible to me. Maybe Akbar or Darth in the corner in a flotilla is odd.. but then it's odd if Akbar isn't on Home One and no one is saying he has to be on Home One (Or are they?).

 

[Beatty 1,730]

Honestly I see it as somewhat fluffy because if everyone is focusing on one big ship the Commander will either have to focus resources on protecting it or board a smaller ship and use the larger ship to be a decoy. Now if the Commander decided to be on a smaller ship and hang back, which would be a total Imperial move for the likes of Admiral Kassius Konstantine, it is still a huge risk for them. If you can't stay out of the battle you're dead and taking down an Admiral would be more important Fluff wise than eliminating a ship. (Unless it was an experimental ship)

So keep that in mind, it's a strategy but if your opponent counters it your Flag Ship is dead.