Help Me Make Vader Great Again!

[TitaniumChopstick 701]

Back in my early days of playing, before I'd even heard of Corran Horn or Soontir Fel, Vader was by far my favorite pilot. He's still pretty darn fun to play nowadays, but I've more or less accepted the fact that if I take him now I'm not really playing to win since there are far better options of late (looking at you Soontir, Ryad, Inqy). Ive never really been a fan of the Adv. Targeting Computer builds on Vader, preferring instead:

Vader: x1, Outmanuver, Accuracy Corrector, Engine (36)

This build may not be may or may not be the "best" build for Vader by some standards, but its always felt the most thematic to me. I find no greater pleasure playing this game than when I fly this Vader. It feels so thematic when he is constantly boosting and barrel-rolling out of arcs and still hitting his targets with perfect accuracy. That feels like Vader. Theme aside, I also like this Vader because with his offense taken care of, you can spend Palp exclusively for his defense, increasing his somewhat lackluster performance in this area while also ensuring he never has to take a target lock, further enabling him to take defensive or re-positioning actions instead.

Now that we've gotten our Vader build out of the way (feel free to suggest other Vader builds if you dont like mine), what else would you put in a list with him to make him as competitive as possible? I'm thinking Palp is almost required with Vader these days, but should he be flown with a deci, a defender and shuttle, some cheap strikers and a shuttle, an interceptor and shuttle? My old build was my aforementioned Vader and standard Stealth Soontir alongside a Palp shuttle, but I doubt that would be exceptional now. What are your guys' thoughts? How would you make Vader great again?

[Wiredin 3,459]

been playing with this idea...

 

 

 

Darth Vader (29)

Outmaneuver (3)

Accuracy Corrector (0)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

 

"Echo" (30)

Adaptability (0)

Fire-Control System (2)

Agent Kallus (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

 

"Omega Leader" (21)

Juke (2)

Comm Relay (3)

 

Total: 100

 

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

[Rolotamasi 208]

I know this has been brought up before, but instead of Outmaneuver what about Swarm Leader?  Are swarms (and min-swarms) too low in the meta to entertain?

 

Vader

- Swarm Leader

- x1

- Stealth Device (no Palp so this helps with defense)

- Fire Control System (no Palp so this helps with offense)

35 pts

 

Sienar Test Pilot

- v1

- Autothrusters

19 pts (x2)

 

Omega Leader

- Juke

- Comm Relay

26 pts

 

99 points in total

 

The TAPs fuel the swarm leader with their titles and OL does her late game what-nots.

[TitaniumChopstick 701]

been playing with this idea...

 

 

 

Darth Vader (29)

Outmaneuver (3)

Accuracy Corrector (0)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

 

"Echo" (30)

Adaptability (0)

Fire-Control System (2)

Agent Kallus (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

 

"Omega Leader" (21)

Juke (2)

Comm Relay (3)

 

Total: 100

 

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Looks good! I'd be tempted to throw a Palp shuttle in there somewhere, but I guess Vader might not need it in this list with Omega and Echo being such big threats. This list would take a LOT of practice though, since it lives and dies by positioning well. I'll have to give it a try and see how it goes.

[TitaniumChopstick 701]

I know this has been brought up before, but instead of Outmaneuver what about Swarm Leader?  Are swarms (and min-swarms) too low in the meta to entertain?

 

Vader

- Swarm Leader

- x1

- Stealth Device (no Palp so this helps with defense)

- Fire Control System (no Palp so this helps with offense)

35 pts

 

Sienar Test Pilot

- v1

- Autothrusters

19 pts (x2)

 

Omega Leader

- Juke

- Comm Relay

26 pts

 

99 points in total

 

The TAPs fuel the swarm leader with their titles and OL does her late game what-nots.

I'm sure in the right hands Swarm Leader might be alright, but I don't think it really fits my play style. I'm a positional player who finds enjoyment in Outmanuvering my opponents (see what I did there? ). Say for a second that I did use this list though, I'd still be somewhat concerned with Vader's durability since you're not really arc-dodging anymore and he is still prone to terrible green dice. He also suffers from being the biggest threat in the list. I'd almost put swarm leader on Omega leader and Keep Vader with Outmanuver so that you have a big attack that can't be modified against (Omega) and a really good closer (Vader). Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll have to try it!

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Vader is already great.  I like him better than Soontir because of the 2 shields.  It gives you more options in how he can be used, and means he is less vulnerable to things that counter a PTL interceptor.

 

I find ATC absolutely the best upgrade for him.  Its won me games.  One of his biggest weaknesses is turrets (because no autothrusters), but thanks to ATC, he can cripple those high hull ships with nasty crits that turn an otherwise bad matchup into a good fight.

 

My go-to build is: Lone Wolf, x-1 title, ATC & engine upgrade = 36.  If I have points available I'll throw on either an ion pulse missile or a homing missile.  I used to like proton rockets, but frankly, the ATC provides plenty of firepower at range 1, so I don't feel the rockets are good value on him anymore.

 

I've won a few tournaments with him already, but I think this current meta is perfect for him so I'm totally using him for Regionals (and most likely Nationals, and if I can get in, Worlds too, probably).

[TitaniumChopstick 701]

Vader is already great.  I like him better than Soontir because of the 2 shields.  It gives you more options in how he can be used, and means he is less vulnerable to things that counter a PTL interceptor.

 

I find ATC absolutely the best upgrade for him.  Its won me games.  One of his biggest weaknesses is turrets (because no autothrusters), but thanks to ATC, he can cripple those high hull ships with nasty crits that turn an otherwise bad matchup into a good fight.

 

My go-to build is: Lone Wolf, x-1 title, ATC & engine upgrade = 36.  If I have points available I'll throw on either an ion pulse missile or a homing missile.  I used to like proton rockets, but frankly, the ATC provides plenty of firepower at range 1, so I don't feel the rockets are good value on him anymore.

 

I've won a few tournaments with him already, but I think this current meta is perfect for him so I'm totally using him for Regionals (and most likely Nationals, and if I can get in, Worlds too, probably).

Yeah, I like that Vader too, but I like my own Vader too much to fly him any other way. He is the same points as mine though, so just out of curiosity, what do you generally fly with him?

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

 

 

Yeah, I like that Vader too, but I like my own Vader too much to fly him any other way. He is the same points as mine though, so just out of curiosity, what do you generally fly with him?

 

I've flown pretty much everything with him.  Pairs of: defenders, interceptors, bombers/punishers, a palp shuttle + inquisitor, and even a decimator (I prefer Oicunn).

 

Of all of those options, X-7 defenders are the most 'competitive' atm, but with outmaneuver, you don't really want opponents going after Vader first (and that's what they will do most of the time when Defenders are your wingmates).  With Lone Wolf, I don't care if the opponent tries to target Vader first.  

 

The Decimator might be a good option for you, since its really hard to ignore, and that will allow your Vader to get behind enemies with ease.  However, the decimator can melt fast, especially against certain builds.  It may still work out fine though----just depends on your comfort level of having your Vader single-handedly taking on about half the opponent's list some percentage of the time...

[Mrk1984 511]

I want to try one of these Swarm Leader builds. In the first 2, Vader can still fly to flank/dodge and use SL to get some 4/5 die rolls. Prockets gives him a little more punch when alone. The Howlrunner swarm also can't be ignored, so they must choose a priority. If they go after Vader, you dodge, if they go after the swarm you flank.

TIE Advanced: •Darth Vader (40)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

•Swarm Leader (3)

Proton Rockets (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE Fighter: •"Howlrunner" (21)

Stealth Device (3)

Adaptability (+1) (0)

TIE Fighter: •"Chaser" (14)

TIE Fighter: Academy Pilot (12) x2

Total: 99/100

TIE Advanced: •Darth Vader (37)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

•Swarm Leader (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE Fighter: •"Scourge" (18)

Veteran Instincts (1)

TIE Fighter: •"Howlrunner" (21)

Stealth Device (3)

Adaptability (+1) (0)

TIE Fighter: Academy Pilot (12) x2

Total: 100/100

TIE Advanced: •Darth Vader (33)

TIE/x1 (0)

•Swarm Leader (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE Fighter: •"Howlrunner" (18)

Adaptability (+1) (0)

TIE Fighter: Academy Pilot (12) x4

Total: 99/100

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

Swarm Leader is definitely a good choice for the Dark Lord.

Advanced Targeting Computer is nice, but you're right, there may be an argument for Fire Control instead - that way you can use free target locks with your extra dice, which is delivering almost the same punch as the extra critical, and have focus/evade for defence.

[TitaniumChopstick 701]

Hmm, seems like most people are suggesting Swarm Leader, so I might have to pick up a striker and give that a try.

Ive not found the Swarm Learder build I like most yet, since there are multiple suggested ones, but here are 2 other builds I'm thinking about potentially giving a try:

RAC: VI, Palp, Gunner, Engine (64)

Vader: x1, Outmanuver, Accuracy Corrector, Engine (36)

I really love this build and out of all the pilots I've ever flown, I've never lost when playing RAC so the deci+ace builds seem to work pretty well for me. It is really hard for me not to put a Lone Wolf, x7, Stealth Ryad in Vaders spot though... I guess time will tell if he can pull even remotely the same weight as either Soontir or Ryad (even Omega in one build ive had success wth) in that coveted spot next to the deci.

Then I was also thinking about running a variation of the top palp aces at worlds:

Vader: x1, Outmanuver, Accuracy Corrector, Engine (36)

Omega Leader: Juke, Comm, Shield (30)

Shuttle: Palps, SJ (33)

Vessery again just seems like an outright improvement over poor Vader in that slot, but who knows, maybe it could be good?

I've flown the Vessery+Omega build a few times and it is REALLY good, so I don't think I can realistically expect Vader to pull the same weight here, unfortunately...

That said, you do gain some extra PS, so maybe it would be alright against other defenders?

Keep suggesting more Swarm Leader builds though guys so I can steal one that I like.

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Hmm, seems like most people are suggesting Swarm Leader, so I might have to pick up a striker and give that a try.

Ive not found the Swarm Learder build I like most yet, since there are multiple suggested ones, but here are 2 other builds I'm thinking about potentially giving a try:

RAC: VI, Palp, Gunner, Engine (64)

Vader: x1, Outmanuver, Accuracy Corrector, Engine (36)

I really love this build and out of all the pilots I've ever flown, I've never lost when playing RAC so the deci+ace builds seem to work pretty well for me. It is really hard for me not to put a Lone Wolf, x7, Stealth Ryad in Vaders spot though... I guess time will tell if he can pull even remotely the same weight as either Soontir or Ryad (even Omega in one build ive had success wth) in that coveted spot next to the deci.

Then I was also thinking about running a variation of the top palp aces at worlds:

Vader: x1, Outmanuver, Accuracy Corrector, Engine (36)

Omega Leader: Juke, Comm, Shield (30)

Shuttle: Palps, SJ (33)

Vessery again just seems like an outright improvement over poor Vader in that slot, but who knows, maybe it could be good?

I've flown the Vessery+Omega build a few times and it is REALLY good, so I don't think I can realistically expect Vader to pull the same weight here, unfortunately...

That said, you do gain some extra PS, so maybe it would be alright against other defenders?

Keep suggesting more Swarm Leader builds though guys so I can steal one that I like.

Both of those lists will struggle against high hull, low agility lists.  Something to keep in mind.

 

The 2nd list in particular has doubled down on cards that are only good against high agility (juke + outmaneuver).  If you face double ghosts, a decimator, yt-1300, or any list featuring lots of hull/shields (like y-wings/b-wings and even X-7 defenders) you are in for a very uphill battle.  X-7 defenders are very prevalent in the meta, and making a list that struggles against them is likely to be problematic for you.

 

Ways to improve the list:

 

-drop shield upgrade from Omega Leader and put a missile on Vader (damage output is far more important than protecting OL).

-change Omega Leader to Inquisitor (dropping SJ to get the points)

-change outmaneuver for predator on Vader

-drop Vader for a Defender

[4fox100 609]

Swarm Leader is definitely a good choice for the Dark Lord.

Advanced Targeting Computer is nice, but you're right, there may be an argument for Fire Control instead - that way you can use free target locks with your extra dice, which is delivering almost the same punch as the extra critical, and have focus/evade for defence.

Treat the extra crit as extra candy. Bad roll? Spend TL. Good roll? Add crit. This way you get to choose in game.

[ObiWonka 7,081]

 

Swarm Leader is definitely a good choice for the Dark Lord.

Advanced Targeting Computer is nice, but you're right, there may be an argument for Fire Control instead - that way you can use free target locks with your extra dice, which is delivering almost the same punch as the extra critical, and have focus/evade for defence.

Treat the extra crit as extra candy. Bad roll? Spend TL. Good roll? Add crit. This way you get to choose in game.

 

This is true. Only two things with ATC are it requires an action to reset, and costs 1 point.

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

I think my favorite Vader build is 24pts...

[Raven19528 158]

Vader VI, x1, ATC, EU = 35pts
Maybe he's not the most capable on offense or defense as other builds, but if positioning is your game, you'll be hard pressed to find another PS11 ace that you are facing off against. So he will always move last and shoot first. Also gives him a little thematic element, as his proficiency as a pilot as well as with the force would undoubtedly allow him to outfly most opponents 1v1.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Raven19528