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ArturiStellare

Why I don't buy this game

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I recommend waiting at least two years to jump in. I have little faith that FFG will actually support this game beyond a season or two. Diskwars anyone? Except the difference is that Diskwars was $30, this is $100 for half a set.

 

 

If you mean Warhammer Diskwars, they cancelled support of it when their license with GW was in question. They knew it was on shaky ground well before their announcement, because development of a game like this is not something you roll out at the drop of a hat. Given that they are no longer doing -any- GW products, this is a null point. 

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I'm not into it because of those command tool dials.

 

rwm01_spearman_command_tool.png

 

It looks nice, but having these things (one for each unit! gah!) clutter up the battlefield and each turn your picking them up, tweaking them, then moving your minatures, changing another dial...It feels a bit gimicky to me, plus I'd like a battlefield with only teh terrain and minis on it, not strewn with tokens and dice and now big dials on plastic stands! I'd be using them as cover half the time. ;)

 

Oh and also there's the fact that I'm sinking my money in half a dozen of FFGs other games, so I got none to spare for this one...

I'm going to invest in this game because of the command dials.  This kind of component adds fluid tactical elements to the game, without adding complexity.  Anyone can handle a dial, but trying to read charts in a book for units to have this kind of fidelity of action would be ridiculous.

 

I'm a long time table top miniatures gamer, and the best games have solid tactical movement.  The dials and movement sticks take a lot of the fiddling away without having to give up tactical choices.  Over the past 25 years, I wonder how much time ive lost in my life watching Butterfingers McTwitchyarm try and wheel a unit using retractable measuring tape.

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I agree with souppilgrim on this. The command dial and movement methods are some of the biggest selling points that make me want to play this game more than I ever wanted to play my WHF armies.  Streamlining a process while still keeping the depth of option for what you can do is one of the biggest draws I feel towards this game.

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...Age of Sigmar is similar, but cheaper due to most of the core rules being free...

 

Dont forget that several players (even some GW fanboys) refused to keep playing/buying that abomination and looked for alternatives.

 

 

Means really not that much, many were just pissed they offed WHF...

 

So you manage to criticize and support my claim in the same setence... congratulations.

 

 

No i do not, you called it an abomination which i said it is not, as said many old WHF players left just because they were angry about GWs move which is understandable but has nothing to do with the game itself and how good/bad it is, and many of those old WHF players choose to hate it without even trying it.

And i don't play it because it is a very different game and it is not what i want, i played some demo games for AoS and yes it was fun it is just not the game i personally want but not because it is a abomination or bad and as said and because it is a very different game compared to WHF it attracts players that wouldn't have played WHF and thanks to some things GW did it seems to be growing.

So in conclusion i do not support your claim that many old WHF players did not play it because it is a abomination and a bad game, which i think you are implying by calling it an abomiantion, I'm just saying there are many reasons why those players didn't start AoS which have nothing to do with the actual quality of the game but if you are saying it is an abomination for you because it is a very different game than WHF was then you are right of course.

 

 

Yes you do. You wrote that GW move from WHF to AoS was disturbing to players as "...many were just pissed they offed WHF..." and just now you wrote "because they were angry about GWs move which is understandable" and "...many of those old WHF players choose to hate it without even trying it"... which was my point when I wrote that "several players (even some GW fanboys) refused to kept playing/buying that abomination and looked for alternatives" however you choose to ignore that and just focus on the "abomination" word which was only a wiseass comment by me (which in my opinion it is comparing with WHF which is the point since its replacing that game - among a gaming group of 10 people none of them moved to AoS... very funny - seems the game its never going to grow around here...).

 

Like I wrote above... you manage to criticize and support my claim in the same setence. I never wrote you thought or wrote that AoS was an abomination...

 

And to be clear I dont care what GW does with their games. The only GW I played/own are Space Hulk and WH40K (with a Tyranid army in the 3rd edition) but i moved on.

Edited by Kentares

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The command dials, until i get more exposure to them and how they work, are a huge turn-off. It seems like you set your unit's command and you're stuck with that one or two things. What if the battlefield changes before that unit activates and you need to shift their purpose? I prefer as much flexibility as possible. I am not one for rank and file games, but Kings of War is another well-established system that works really well.

 

I'm also not huge on the turning templates, but i (sort of) get it with a game of this type.

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Well the idea is that you analyze the battlefield to see what maneuvers your enemy could make and which of these would be the one your opponent is most likely to take and then you act accordingly to that information. Of course mistakes will happen but that is part of the game and the learning process.

Edited by Iceeagle85

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Also the varying initiative is a key factor to this, if you want to do something make sure you are doing low initiative actions, of course you won't always be able to however most of the dials have two forms of move and combat where one is fast and doesn't have AS much of punch and one that is slow but has a slew of modifiers to make the attack truly crippling.

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I am not one for rank and file games,

 

Sounds like this isn't the game for you.  What someone likes or wants in a game is a lot like what someone wants on a pizza... Everyone has different opinions and they're just that opinions so there's no right or wrong to it.

 

There is however a theme they want for this game mechanically.  They're taking in part the concept of dials from X-Wing where you decide things based on imperfect information and are stuck with that and making it work for a rank and file game.

 

Which IMO works well, since in this style of warfare, the commander never had perfect info and knew that the plan wouldn't survive first contact with the enemy.  It again IMO does a good job of simulating the slow to react nature of this type of warfare, but if that's not something you'd enjoy then there's likely other games out there that you will.

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The command dials, until i get more exposure to them and how they work, are a huge turn-off. It seems like you set your unit's command and you're stuck with that one or two things. What if the battlefield changes before that unit activates and you need to shift their purpose? I prefer as much flexibility as possible. I am not one for rank and file games, but Kings of War is another well-established system that works really well.

 

I'm also not huge on the turning templates, but i (sort of) get it with a game of this type.

 

Aw man, this is PRECISELY why I want this pizza!  I totally love that you commit your dudes at the beginning of the turn, and you better have committed well or bam!  you're in trouble.  

 

This sounds like such an excellent take on the rank and file army game and is cool enough sounding that there will likely be space on my (figurative) rank and file army shelf for both this and Kings of War.  (sorry Age of Sigmar, *I* think you're cool, but none of my friends do!)

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Completely agree with pancakeonions (except putting onions on a pancake but that's for another forum  :) ). The whole fact of dials enables a great strategic depth, instead of the brainless run for clash you see in the large competitor game.

I was also impressed by the recent article on victory points and just love the little things like having the lowest point army get some initiative (instead of rolling for it, simple but elegant rule) and choose either the deployment or the mission (which is a good natural balance)

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I won't buy this game because I like it and that this is a very bad starting point...

I won't buy this game because of its interesting mechanics

I won't buy this game because my wallet is empty, banks don't keep money in their chests anymore, no one does trust me enough to lend me money or to let himself get robbed by me....

Well life is life.... :D

 

And more seriously, the fact that having an order that finishes in a "miss" because the target has moved or the attacking unit has been obliterated before being able to act... well this is part of the rules and the fun of the game. I see no clear reason in my own situation to look away from this game. My wallet will excuse me if I go ask for a loan even if I didn't refund any of my ten previous ones and that my cat won't look at me anymore because I buy games instead of meat and milk for him.... (all of what has been said about my supposed day to day life is purely fictional and does concern - at least I hope so - no one on this forum. Thanks for your understanding).

 

Edited by Elrad
spelling mistakes

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I'm open-minded enough to continue to pursue it and see what becomes of the game. When I say i am not fond of rank and file I mostly mean I don't like the tactical inflexibility and the "look" of big blocks of soldiers on the table top. I am, however, willing to give any game a chance if it's good. 

 

I don't understand how dials and predetermining what a unit does is more strategic than not having something telling you what to do as the table changes and decisions need to be made. It doesn't seem all that flexible, but i have next to zero exposure (other than a demo at a con video) to explain it.

 

I've always been a huge fan of skirmishy/coherency style games (40k, warzone, AoS), but if a game is really good, and the minis are nice, I will give it a shot. Hopefully, they come out with more interesting armies. 

 

I read in another thread they (meaning FFG) are not great at continued support of a game, so that worries me and gives me pause.

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I'll definitely be buying into this game. My only niggling concerns, which won't affect my initial buy in but perhaps my long term support, is how quick they are to release other races and the quality of the miniatures. I'd hope the miniatures are better than Imperial Assault, where I found the scale to be inconsistent with larger units (general Weiss and the tanks for example) and removing mould lines felt strange with the plastic material used.

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It would be pretty easy to appropriately scale things,they could just launch a dragon or something huge on a custom tray that would be the size of several standard trays then treat is like a unique character with no deployments other than 1 tray. Personally I think that would be awesome to see. 

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7 minutes ago, jek said:

It would be pretty easy to appropriately scale things,they could just launch a dragon or something huge on a custom tray that would be the size of several standard trays then treat is like a unique character with no deployments other than 1 tray. Personally I think that would be awesome to see. 

I'm anticipating large units with 2x1, 2x2 or even a 2x3 tray. Being a miniatures game not tied to small tiled maps I'm also expecting a better focus on scale.

Edited by Muz333

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9 hours ago, Muz333 said:

I'm anticipating large units with 2x1, 2x2 or even a 2x3 tray. Being a miniatures game not tied to small tiled maps I'm also expecting a better focus on scale.

Yeah I'm hoping they do these giant monsters or siege weaponry would be awesome to scale.  And this goes back to how streamlined the game is that they won't need to make little mini rules on the cards for things like slow or crew bonuses or anything like that because it will just be represented on the command dials.  Everyday I get more and more excited for this game.

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18 hours ago, Melanieshaman said:

I don't understand how dials and predetermining what a unit does is more strategic than not having something telling you what to do as the table changes and decisions need to be made. It doesn't seem all that flexible, but i have next to zero exposure (other than a demo at a con video) to explain it.

 

18 hours ago, Melanieshaman said:

I read in another thread they (meaning FFG) are not great at continued support of a game, so that worries me and gives me pause.

It's not necessarily more strategic, its just a different approach that works really well but changes the way you approach engagements.  Have you played X-wing?  That game simply wouldn't work without the predetermined maneuver system because the focus is on outmaneuvering opponents.  The focus is to predict what your enemy is going to do, and if you predict wrong, then you're facing the wrong way or worse.  Rune Wars is taking a similar approach.  Imagine it like the orders from your commander take a few moments to execute, and if your predictions are incorrect, you could put those units in a bad situation, which in the case of RuneWars is simulated by missing an attack attempt or by receiving morale tokens.  The Predetermined movement/command system more closely simulates simultaneous events in a turn based environment, because all of these things should really be happening at the same time.  Again, not necessarily better or worse or more or less strategic, but highly strategic for different reasons than more activate back and forth approach.  It will set this game apart from many other Rank and File games, and that alone is a very good thing in a genre with so many established, popular experiences available.

 

Not sure where you heard that they don't support their games.  All of the current competitive games receive regular releases and content expansions, many of which have been going for many years, and FFG are very good about replacing damaged components.

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18 hours ago, Melanieshaman said:

I read in another thread they (meaning FFG) are not great at continued support of a game, so that worries me and gives me pause.

Yeah X-wing and Imperial Assault (the only other games of FFG I keep up with) are regularly expanded to around 3-4 wave launch per year, with usually at least one new unit per faction within each game.  Armada is a bit of a slower release but that is because of the scale more than anything, there are only so many capital type ships in the SWU and since FFG is now going only canon they are now limited from using SWEU now Legends.  Then there is there LCG scene, and shut up about Conquest (great game btw) because there is nothing in FFG's power to continue that since GW pulled the license, which are regularly updated every month or two with a new pack or expansion.  From how I see it compared to other companies, such as GW who only now seems to release resculpts or boxes of models that are like a quarter of an army, or PP who makes my still favorite miniature game but is notorious for teasing a model giving rules then not releasing them for two years (Khador man'o'war bombardiers or grolar jack) FFG is pretty respectable in the regards of new stuff they release for their games. 

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2 hours ago, jek said:

Yeah X-wing and Imperial Assault (the only other games of FFG I keep up with) are regularly expanded to around 3-4 wave launch per year, with usually at least one new unit per faction within each game.  Armada is a bit of a slower release but that is because of the scale more than anything, there are only so many capital type ships in the SWU and since FFG is now going only canon they are now limited from using SWEU now Legends.  Then there is there LCG scene, and shut up about Conquest (great game btw) because there is nothing in FFG's power to continue that since GW pulled the license, which are regularly updated every month or two with a new pack or expansion.  From how I see it compared to other companies, such as GW who only now seems to release resculpts or boxes of models that are like a quarter of an army, or PP who makes my still favorite miniature game but is notorious for teasing a model giving rules then not releasing them for two years (Khador man'o'war bombardiers or grolar jack) FFG is pretty respectable in the regards of new stuff they release for their games. 

You can add the ease of FFG to not have to worry about going through other companies to get approval for the Runewar universe license they own. I'd expect two other releases this year for the game besides the core set. The first will just be the individual units that are found in the core set with new cards. Later this year we should see more stuff for the two core set factions before adding the elves in 2018. Maybe we'll get lucky and see a release every quarter.

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1 hour ago, Kubernes said:

You can add the ease of FFG to not have to worry about going through other companies to get approval for the Runewar universe license they own. I'd expect two other releases this year for the game besides the core set. The first will just be the individual units that are found in the core set with new cards. Later this year we should see more stuff for the two core set factions before adding the elves in 2018. Maybe we'll get lucky and see a release every quarter.

As they said you can collect just one faction and it will have all the upgrade cards as well as the fact they are going after some of the wargaming crowd I wouldn't be surprised if we had a more aggressive release cycle.

they know that multiple fleshed out factions are a requirement for the miniatures crowd.

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So let's wait and see. March-April I read ? Well I have already locked the money somewhere under an old matrass in my attic kept by two giant spiders and a casual werewolf who only eats chocolate...

My only hesitation is going to be answered soon or later as the rule book or the exact list of components will be communicated : shall I buy one or two core sets ? will it be a toss or will it be a benefit because of the supplement of game materials ? It is discusses elsewhere but it was just to say what keep me actually on the fence. But knowing me, the day I can buy the game I may feel less hyped or having turned my eyes on something else... who knows :P

Edited by Elrad

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The unique heroes in the core sets are the biggest factor preventing me from committing to two core sets...which is why I want to wait and see what the estimated price of the individual units will be and how many come in a pack. 

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40 minutes ago, jek said:

The unique heroes in the core sets are the biggest factor preventing me from committing to two core sets...which is why I want to wait and see what the estimated price of the individual units will be and how many come in a pack. 

It would be an odd choice to have people buy a copy of a unique character they already have, so I wonder if there's going to be some spin on this. Because we're dealing with sprues (no, I haven't actually seen how they will turn out yet), perhaps they will have alternative poses, weapons, or even the ability to produce a different hero? Or we might not get a reissue of that hero.

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3 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

It would be an odd choice to have people buy a copy of a unique character they already have, so I wonder if there's going to be some spin on this. Because we're dealing with sprues (no, I haven't actually seen how they will turn out yet), perhaps they will have alternative poses, weapons, or even the ability to produce a different hero? Or we might not get a reissue of that hero.

FFG has said runewars will not be on sprue but will be similar to imperial assault.  Though it could be like Captain Terro and the different bodies to create the dewback riders.  Until all the components are revealed and I see if there is any way to use the heroes as other things, maybe there will be generic version of Dari or whats his face skeleton guy =P, I'm not willing to commit to a second core box.  My LGS owner is sad about that also lol...not really...

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