herod1204 62 Posted January 2, 2017 Afternoon all, Bugger me with a fishfork, Jerjerrod is absolutely amazing. I ran this list against my partner last night (he ran a Sato list), and being able to pretty much do 90 degree turns with my Victorys won me the game. I lost my raider whilst tabling him. I'm keen to hear people's thoughts on the list, given it is, horror of horrors squadronless. The idea was to roll the Raider into the middle of enemy squadrons, and flechette them to death, locking them down for one or two turns whilst slowing the raider and trying to do maximum damage to them with aa, before zooming off. Against squadronless lists, the raider is still useful obviously, my only problem being with trying to make sure it doesn't die that turn it has to move into the squadron zone. I also faced the problem of not rolling a single critical despite my rerolls during the entire game. Highly irritating. Everything else was relatively straightforward, kite with the Kittens, and point forwards with the Victorys. Whilst I included a bid to ensure I went first, weirdly, I think this list might do well from going second. A variant, I have yet to test, would remove the supressor title,change impetuous to instigator, remove the skilled first officer, remove the Arquittens, and add a Gladiator 1 with Demolisher, Ordinance experts, and assault proton torpedoes, still leaving me with a relatively healthy bid for first. Any thoughts on either of these would be appreciated! Jerry Dual Vic, Kitty, Raider, Gozanti, No squadron Author: herod1204 Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 384/400 Commander: Moff Jerjerrod Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)- Suppressor ( 4 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 29 total ship cost [ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 132 total ship cost Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)- Impetuous ( 4 points) - Agent Kallus ( 3 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points) = 58 total ship cost Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)- Hand of Justice ( 4 points) - Slaved Turrets ( 6 points) = 64 total ship cost Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 101 total ship cost Card view link Fleet created with Armada Warlords 2 mysticknight and clanofwolves reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chr335 658 Posted January 2, 2017 Interesting list I may have to try a version of it myself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ginkapo 9,321 Posted January 2, 2017 What formation do you fly that in? Have you considered Ciena Rae and Valen Rudor to hold up enemy bombers? They both have scatter tokens and seriously restrict attacks against them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 2, 2017 @ginkapo Depends. The VSD's are normally at a bit of an angle so they have maximum flexibility to chase stuff down from the centre of the board, the Kitten aims to cap the T of an enemy if they try to drive across the full length of the map, or just pump their flank full of fire if they don't, and the raider acts as a flanker as well, driving in at speed 4. Gozanti obviously just floats around the VSD's to spam engineering tokens for them. I want the VSD's to basically have crossed forward arcs across the bits of the enemy that I really want dead, one normally a little bit further behind the other, and Jerjerrod allows them to make horrifically tight turns to chase after them as they go past as well. It's sort of a refused flank strategy... I think. Ciena and Valen were things I considered, but I don't have CC just yet. If i ran the original list and just accepted I'll quite often go second, I might be able to squeeze them in, but I'd probably need to lose the Gozanti. On the other hand, going second when your opponent might end up picking minefields, isn't necessarily a bad thing! I'm kinda inclined to lose the Kitten regardless and replace it with a second raider potentially, which would free up some points as well. The kitten definitely felt like the weakest part of the list, but I really wanted to use my new toy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coldhands 418 Posted January 2, 2017 A VSD2 with H9 really cries out for a Warlord title. It makes your AA a guaranteed damage, or gives a bit of a damage boost against ships. Supressor could be traded in during the process, and you could have that as flagship, cruising behind the vsd-s. 12 point bid to be P1 is still decent if you make that change. Otherwise, looks solid, and I can only agree with Ginkapo on fighters. You could make a varriant where the second vsd is a vsd1 with flight controllers, and a couple of squadrons to take the bullets instead of your raider. 1 SoonerTed reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ginkapo 9,321 Posted January 2, 2017 Well the VSD's are slow, so you need sheep dogs to go with them and shepherd the enemy. Both Raiders and Arquittens can do that. I would be tempted by Engine Techs on the Arquittens to make it perform that role even better. 1 SoonerTed reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 2, 2017 Warlord is an interesting one, and if I kept the fleet without fighters, I would definitely look at that, swapping the Kitten for a second raider too. There are a few swaps you can make in that set up to include warlord and a decent bid as well. Having thought about it, I think Demolisher isn't probably quite right, as while you obviously can herd with it, I don't think it would quite work properly with this. I've put a reworked variant below, pulling the kitten for a second raider, and whacking in Ciena and Valen. Feels a bit overkill potentially on the AA, but having whiffed it all last time, I'm not going to say no to it... I think two Kittens might be better for herding, but would more difficult to squeeze them in, and I think the Raiders pack a lot more punch. I'm wondering again about whether this would be better going second? I've only ever really built lists where I have been aiming to be first player, but this doesn't exactly need an alpha strike so could be second. The only area is kinda needs one, is getting one of those raiders into the fighter ball to mash it up before they activate it, but it would allow me to put warlord back in, and possibly something else. I think it would prefer first, but wouldn't actually care about going second, especially with some of the new objectives. Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 389/400 Commander: Moff Jerjerrod Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)- Comms Net ( 2 points) = 25 total ship cost [ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 125 total ship cost Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 100 total ship cost Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)- Agent Kallus ( 3 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points) = 54 total ship cost Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)- Instigator ( 4 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points) = 55 total ship cost 1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points) 1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points) Card view link Fleet created with Armada Warlords 1 clanofwolves reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ovinomanc3r 4,437 Posted January 2, 2017 Warlord is an interesting one, and if I kept the fleet without fighters, I would definitely look at that, swapping the Kitten for a second raider too. There are a few swaps you can make in that set up to include warlord and a decent bid as well. Having thought about it, I think Demolisher isn't probably quite right, as while you obviously can herd with it, I don't think it would quite work properly with this. I've put a reworked variant below, pulling the kitten for a second raider, and whacking in Ciena and Valen. Feels a bit overkill potentially on the AA, but having whiffed it all last time, I'm not going to say no to it... I think two Kittens might be better for herding, but would more difficult to squeeze them in, and I think the Raiders pack a lot more punch. I'm wondering again about whether this would be better going second? I've only ever really built lists where I have been aiming to be first player, but this doesn't exactly need an alpha strike so could be second. The only area is kinda needs one, is getting one of those raiders into the fighter ball to mash it up before they activate it, but it would allow me to put warlord back in, and possibly something else. I think it would prefer first, but wouldn't actually care about going second, especially with some of the new objectives. Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 389/400 Commander: Moff Jerjerrod Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 25 total ship cost [ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points) - Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 125 total ship cost Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 100 total ship cost Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points) - Agent Kallus ( 3 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points) = 54 total ship cost Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points) - Instigator ( 4 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points) = 55 total ship cost 1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points) 1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points) Card view link Fleet created with Armada Warlords I think you forgot the electronic countermeasures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 2, 2017 Balls. Minister Tua is glitchy, I forgot about that. And that does really change the bid... Gah. Well spotted! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joshualarue46 3 Posted January 2, 2017 Vic II with quad turbolasers and warlord title with captain Jonus flying at range 1 guarantees a double and an accuracy every time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamanu1 142 Posted January 3, 2017 Your list makes me consider getting a second VSD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 3, 2017 It's making me toy with getting a third! I really can't explain how exciting it is watching Victorys outmanoeuvre rebels, that turning arc is absolutely insane with Jerjerrod and really enables you to both keep formation AND keep pointing your front arc at the enemy. Don't get me wrong, I am not claiming this is going to be a meta-winning list and I am a long way shy of being a good player, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to play, feels strong, AND it feels Imperial. The one thing I have learnt, is that raiders with flechette torpedoes are not going to stop fighters against a good player, getting them into position to fire off your anti-squadron attack is just way too difficult sadly. You are much better using the points you invested elsewhere, and either running a Demo instead of the two raiders, or running the raiders a lot lighter and running a CAG to keep them off you. The Gozanti MAY have to go to this end, but you really do want the activation advantage, as the list works surprisingly well going second. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamanu1 142 Posted January 3, 2017 Vic II with quad turbolasers and warlord title with captain Jonus flying at range 1 guarantees a double and an accuracy every time But without Jonus, is it better to have H9? This lets you choose whether to get an accuracy or a double hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 3, 2017 Vic II with quad turbolasers and warlord title with captain Jonus flying at range 1 guarantees a double and an accuracy every time But without Jonus, is it better to have H9? This lets you choose whether to get an accuracy or a double hit. Jonus feels a bit too combo-wombo for my tastes, and you run the risk of him dying, being pinned, etc, etc. The Warlord, Quad and Jonus combo is also a LOT more expensive. Yes I am not able to reroll so I will occcasionally whiff, but I have been popping Flotilla's no problem with the H9's, which is primarily what they are there for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamanu1 142 Posted January 3, 2017 Shame about the raider not being as effective against squadrons. I was hoping to have it in this configuration in my cc fleet. Back to the drawing board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 3, 2017 Shame about the raider not being as effective against squadrons. I was hoping to have it in this configuration in my cc fleet. Back to the drawing board. Agreed. There are only two ways it can realistically work, 1.) your opponent moves all of his squadrons on top of your raider during the squadron phase enabling you to knock them out next turn, 2.) you move your raider in AFTER the alpha strike from his squadrons (where they have come in from a squadron command). The first is unlikely to happen, the second is less useful because by that point they have already done damage to your ships. Theoretically, flying in a tight formation, you COULD use them to keep no fly zones around certain portions of your fleet (i.e. where you think fighters will hit your capitals), but I feel that would only be delaying tactic. I've changed the list around again then. Dropped the two raiders and the Gozanti, and replaced them with two Light Kittens with DTT, and added Dengar in. Dengar could be any hero under 20 points reasonably though, so long as there is a good synergy with holding people up. 1 banjobenito reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Democratus 1,698 Posted January 3, 2017 Great to see you trying to make the old workhorses fun on the table again! How are you moving the squadrons around without a Gozanti to activate them? Are you having to use Squadron commands on your VICs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk007 2 Posted January 4, 2017 Herod this list looks super fun. I actually played a game with 4 Victories in the past, didn't play well but it was fun as hell. With Jererr the maneuverability is insane. I agree that flechette torpedoes wouldn't work to hard against players that are good an maneuvering. So I made a few changes. 1) I just swapped out FT for APT on the raider. 2) I added Aresko to the non victory flag ship to make both vics more durable (Gozanti w/ Comms can now add a repair token to both victories in one go) Aresko + Comms also allow you to make use of the 4 squadrons I have with either Vic (Dial + Token). I used to run the Dengargeddon ball with more interceptors but with 2 it works just fine. You can fly in and do a ton of damage to take out crucial components to your enemy's squad list in one go + you have the raider to drop in. Commander: Moff Jerjerrod Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields [ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points) - Minister Tua ( 2 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 132 total ship cost Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)- Warlord ( 8 points) - Commandant Aresko ( 7 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points) = 115 total ship cost Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)- Instigator ( 4 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points) = 57 total ship cost Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)- Comms Net ( 2 points) = 25 total ship cost 1 Dengar ( 20 points) 1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points) 2 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 22 points) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ginkapo 9,321 Posted January 4, 2017 This was an interesting thread on quad vics from back in the day. Some pics on page 2. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/217918-bringing-tarkin-back/ 1 herod1204 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 4, 2017 Great to see you trying to make the old workhorses fun on the table again! How are you moving the squadrons around without a Gozanti to activate them? Are you having to use Squadron commands on your VICs? I swapped Dengar back out before playing actually, dropped Valen to a regular tie and shoehorned the Gozanti back in. In all fairness though, the squadrons are very much expendable, and are designed to keep things busy rather than do any real damage, so I'm not averse to just moving them in the squadron phase at points. Interesting list @hawk007 and it focuses on the one thing I am concerned about with this list, which is anti squadron ability. The set up that I tried last night (2 vic as per my other lists, 2 kittens with dtt, gozanti with comms net, Ciena and a lone tie) feels like it would be horrifically vulnerable to big squadron lists akin to JJ's infinite y-wings from Worlds. With the list as it stands, I genuinely have no idea how to deal with that sort of squadron storm, unless I swapped one of the kittens for a raider and a couple more fighters or something long those lines. It's the one really massive weakness I think the list has having played it a few times. If I ran the original version, I could shoe in Ciena and Valor relatively easily by stripping off some of the less useful upgrades from stuff. I think I just like having lots of ships and want to play with all of my toys at once... sigh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted January 4, 2017 This was an interesting thread on quad vics from back in the day. Some pics on page 2. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/217918-bringing-tarkin-back/ I like how less than 9 months ago is classed as "back in the day" Gink. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted July 9, 2017 And so I return to this fleet anew, excited by the promise of external racks making it a lot more dangerous to flank my beloved Victory I's. I'm looking at you Demo. Author: herod1204 Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 400/400 Commander: Moff Jerjerrod Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Fire Lanes Navigation Objective: Sensor Net [ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points) - Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points) - Veteran Gunners ( 5 points) - Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points) - External Racks ( 3 points) = 109 total ship cost Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points) - Veteran Gunners ( 5 points) - Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points) - External Racks ( 3 points) = 86 total ship cost Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 25 total ship cost Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) = 59 total ship cost Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points) - Agent Kallus ( 3 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - External Racks ( 3 points) = 54 total ship cost 1 Lambda-class Shuttle ( 15 points) 2 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 22 points) 1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points) 1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points) The Victory's have both lost their spinal armaments, replacing them with external racks and Quad Battery Turrets. Given they will mostly be slow rolling, I figured that made more sense. More importantly, against a wild Demolisher that wants to try the triple tap into my side arc, it will now be facing off against a minimum of 2 red, 3 black, 1 blue, and potentially a concentrate fire dice too, assuming I am going second. That is enough to potentially cripple it, if not destroy it, and that is a MASSIVE thing for me, as the last tournie I went to I got wrecked by someone (who played it beautifully) and ran Demolisher right down my flank. I used to run 2 Arquittens, both with DTT and Intel Officers, but I've struggled to get them right with the Victory front arcs, and often found them not being much good. Just having the one, will hopefully make for a more effective flanker, and it's raider replacement fulfils a dual role of threatening enemy squadrons (Sloane's Tie Fighters especially) and also making for a potent shipbreaker (blame Truthiness for those external racks. So delicious). Squadrons I have toyed with some much, and I've wanted to include a lamba for yonks, which has led to the new objective set up. I figure that sensor net I can farm, and the same with firelanes, forcing my opponent to come to me (as odds are, I will be second play, and kinda prefer it.), and the lamba enables all sorts of fun around that. It also enables a limited alpha strike from my gozanti, pushing valen and ciena into the fight, and then following with the interceptors later potentially, but I'm really not sure. Any thoughts or criticism are much appreciated, especially around the objectives and squadrons please! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Democratus 1,698 Posted July 11, 2017 This looks very balanced. The price/offensive punch of your VSDs seems to be in the sweet spot. You have 2 good short-range threats (2 VSD), 3 long-range threats (VSDs and Arq) and a credible fighter screen with strategic. This is the kind of list where player skill will be the primary driver - as it doesn't seem to be vulnerable to a hard counter from any meta typical list. The only difficulty I can see is using your anti-squadron Raider-I when second player. Let us know how it works out. This seems like a fun list! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herod1204 62 Posted July 13, 2017 Yeah, the anti-squadron raider is a bit of a wildcard. My hope is that I won't need it too often for that, and it will be more aimed at ships. Thought process is that it will protect one of the VSD's flanks against DeMSU lists, and against lists where I have activation advantage, it's a solid damage dealer. Tempted to knock Kallus off it though to have a tiny bid, but I don't think it's too important. Slightly worried only one strategic is too few, but should be alright. Your reference to player skill is worrying however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
