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Question about a Force Power used by Vader ***Rogue One Spoilers***

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As for hyperspace and gravity wells...

 

That was more something that WEG made up to account for the " why didn't they just jump to hyperspace right away?" in ANH when the Falcon was fleeing Tatooine, when really it was probably a case of Han not having the coordinates to jump to Alderaan plotted and loaded into the ship's navicomputer.  Remember that they did have to take off in an awful hurry, and I doubt there's much in the way of a common route to go from Tatooine (galactic backwater) to Alderaan (notable core world).  Luke dropped out of hyperspace well outside of Dagobah's atmosphere/gravity well because it was a completely foreign planet that he knew zilch about.  Other authors pretty much took WEG's answer and ran with it.

 

But in the new films, it does sound like jumping into or out of hyperspace from within a planet's atmosphere is a very risky proposition, and I think there was an episode in season of The Clone Wars were a Republic warship had to do an atmospheric jump to hyperspace that wound up causing all sorts of issues for the ship.  So it sounds like the heroes of the movies have either been very lucky (Rogue One crew) or really good (Han Solo in TFA) when trying that particular stunt.

Gravity wells preventing hyperspace travel is canon. Hera talks about it in iirc season 1 when they change course in hyperspace. It comes up again later when the ghost meets the Purrgil in Season 2, Episode 13 "The Call" when Hera explains that the mass shadow of those space wales destroyers ships when they cross the path of hyperspace routes.

Basically Rebels is using all that EU and RPG infos while the freaking movies just showing us incorrect visuals. IIRC JJ himself stated that the starkiller weapon fire was not really visible in the whole galaxy, it was just a metaphor. Once you are down that the visuals don't count anymore, you can ignore those movies safely on the details when considering what is canon and what is not.

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I definitely prefer the theory that you could see the blasts from Starkiller base, as a side effect of how the beams manipulated hyperspace over visualizing a metaphor.

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I could accept that you could see the blast if you were near it's trajectory, but  Takodana is kinda the other side of the galaxy, so it breaks the immersion a lot to have to rationalize how it was possible. Another of that idiot JJ screw ups. 

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I could accept that you could see the blast if you were near it's trajectory, but Takodana is kinda the other side of the galaxy, so it breaks the immersion a lot to have to rationalize how it was possible. Another of that idiot JJ screw ups.

The map they released has Tokadana on the other side of the galaxy. The movie shows it being in the Hosnian system. Abrams either thinks his audience are idiots or he lacks any understanding of cosmic distances, like in Star Trek where he has the enterprise threatening to fire photons at the Klingon home world from the neutral zone. lol.

Even if it was in the same system the planets would have to be ridiculously close to see it how it was shown in the movie.

Edited by ghatt

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I think he was referring to the Rogue One bit.

 

Oh... my bad!  Well in that case, I recall seeing something that looked like Vader freezing a bolt mid-air and tossing it back at the enemy.  However, I've only seen the movie once, and a lot was going on in that particular scene, so I could be mistaken.  I'd probably need to wait for it's release so I can view it a few times paying closer attention to what may or may not have happened.

 

 

Man, I'm in the same boat.  I after that scene ended, i turned to my son and said, "Did... did Vader grab a blaster bolt out of the air, hang onto it for a second and then release it back at someone."  "I'm not sure.  I kinda think he did!"

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Vader does not know Protect he's simply using reflect and Improved reflect with his armored gauntlets.

What makes you say that? The power Vader used against Han's blaster bolt in ESB was definitely Protect. In fact, it was the very basis for that power when first introduced way back in the WEG D6 days. 

 

If he is using protect which would completely stop the blaster bolts why are his hands smoking?

He is blocking them with his armored gloves. Its basically Reflect.

Also if he could use protect then he would also be able to use Unleash which we know he can't do.

 

because protect absorbed the shot when it hit the glove not before. 

And how do we know he can't use unleash? maybe he doesn't like it so he prefers not to use it. 

 

Then why did the emperor fry him with force lighting?

Oh right he doesn't actually know protect...

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Vader does not know Protect he's simply using reflect and Improved reflect with his armored gauntlets.

What makes you say that? The power Vader used against Han's blaster bolt in ESB was definitely Protect. In fact, it was the very basis for that power when first introduced way back in the WEG D6 days. 

 

If he is using protect which would completely stop the blaster bolts why are his hands smoking?

He is blocking them with his armored gloves. Its basically Reflect.

Also if he could use protect then he would also be able to use Unleash which we know he can't do.

 

because protect absorbed the shot when it hit the glove not before. 

And how do we know he can't use unleash? maybe he doesn't like it so he prefers not to use it. 

 

Then why did the emperor fry him with force lighting?

Oh right he doesn't actually know protect...

 

 

 

In fairness, the emperor wasn't frying Vader, but frying Luke. Vader took the brunt of the blast when he threw Palps into the pit.

 

To be specific, It was Vader's life support system which took the brunt of the blast, which is why it ultimately killed him. Also, Protect won't necessarily absorb all of the damage inflicted. In the case of Vader being hit by Palpatine's Force Lightening, the energy simply overwhelmed his ability to absorb it. 

In the WotC Star Wars d20 system there was a force feat called Dissipate Energy. It was usable by the light or dark side and you could basically make a fort save as a reaction and absorb the energy from things like blaster bolts or force lightening to take no damage. So Yoda and Mace's absorption of the force lightening and Vader's absorption of Han's blaster fire was essentially the same power. I don't think there's a direct translation in the FFG system but what people have suggested here work well enough I think.

Dissipate Energy (originally known as Absorb/Dissipate Energy in D6, was converted into Protect in F&D. It's the same power. 

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Protect also has a nice glowy effect when you see Yoda using it.

There is zero evidence Vader has it or ever even learned it.

The simplest explaination is Vader is so bad ass he can block blaster bolts with his gloves.

We also know the simplest explaination is usually the correct one.

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Protect also has a nice glowy effect when you see Yoda using it.

There is zero evidence Vader has it or ever even learned it.

The simplest explaination is Vader is so bad ass he can block blaster bolts with his gloves.

We also know the simplest explaination is usually the correct one.

That glow was from the Force Lightening, not from the use of Protect.

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Hello fellow fans, :)

Vader reflecting bolts or Kylo freezing it mid air could IMO also happen narratively on an attack of their opponents. They both have ranks in adversary, and probably lots of ranged defence, so shooting at them over medium/long distance is no simple task.

 

I would think Poe shoots Kylo but fails with despair. GM JJ: "Yeah, so you fire your weapon, but the hooded figure swirls around and with a gesture of their hand, they freeze your blaster bolt mid-air. The blaster bolt now sits there, right in front of you, frizzling menacingly like a red bolt of lightning-like fire. Now, it's their turn. How's your Discipline again?" *rolls for Bind*, *gets a triumph*

 

Similar for Han shooting at Vader in the dining room.

I think not every Jedi power we see needs a detailed game mechanic, at least not in this narrative game, where you can/should use despair and triumph for "something out of the ordinary happens". And, things like freezing a bolt for a despair on a failed attack is a nice change from "you miss and your shot hits your BB-unit behind you". Failed attack doesn't always have to be a miss. It just means you failed to damage the target.

 

May the Despair be with your enemies :ph34r:

Fred

--

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With Vader not using Force Lightning, the reason given in Legends (not sure if it's carried over to the current canon) was that it'd fry the electrical systems of his life-support armor... very much like what happened when Palp's blasts of Force Lightning coursed into Vader in RotJ.

 

For ESB, Vader may very well have used Protect, having set it up ahead of time (such as just before Han enters) knowing that Solo would quite likely shoot as fast as possible at the most threatening target in the room.  So, he activates Protect as a precaution, and when Han takes the top spot in the initiative order, Vader's able to absorb the shot, and then use the next NPC slot to pull Han's blaster away with trivial ease.

 

As for the Rogue One scene (watched some low-quality clips on YouTube a while back, though most of them now seem to be gone), I think the only times Vader outstreched his hand was just before he used Move to either yank weapons away from the Rebels, or toss them about like toys.  Otherwise, he was using Reflect to parry blaster fire with his lightsaber.  There was one angle where a blaster shot looked like it could have been a shot that didn't actually hit Vader but instead hit the corridor wall.  Again, the clips were low-quality so they're probably not the best reference, but they're what was available.

 

The "using Protect as a reaction" bit is most certainly there for Yoda's countering Sith Lightning with his bare hands.  I know that technically Reflect wouldn't cover stopping Unleash (since the power is a Discipline ranged attack), but seeing as how Kenobi and Windu were able to parry Sith Lightning with their lightsabers (Windu even being able to redirect it back), as a GM I'd be cool with making a house rule to enable Reflect to work vs. Unleash, or even to be used against items thrown by the Move power.

 

I think lightning is just a narrative description of what unleash does...it could also be a massive telekinetic wave, or even Vader throwing a bunch of stuff at Luke in ESB. Though I am inclined to agree that it was more in-line with Reflect. 

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Vader does not know Protect he's simply using reflect and Improved reflect with his armored gauntlets.

What makes you say that? The power Vader used against Han's blaster bolt in ESB was definitely Protect. In fact, it was the very basis for that power when first introduced way back in the WEG D6 days. 

 

If he is using protect which would completely stop the blaster bolts why are his hands smoking?

He is blocking them with his armored gloves. Its basically Reflect.

Also if he could use protect then he would also be able to use Unleash which we know he can't do.

 

 

His hands could be smoking because he partially absorbed it with Protect and took the rest on Soak. I think an argument could be made that he knows Protect/Unleash and just narratively describes it as throwing objects, or Force slamming people. That said, I agree Reflect is the simple answer...just playing Devil's advocate on the Unleash stuff.

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Vader does not know Protect he's simply using reflect and Improved reflect with his armored gauntlets.

What makes you say that? The power Vader used against Han's blaster bolt in ESB was definitely Protect. In fact, it was the very basis for that power when first introduced way back in the WEG D6 days. 

 

If he is using protect which would completely stop the blaster bolts why are his hands smoking?

He is blocking them with his armored gloves. Its basically Reflect.

Also if he could use protect then he would also be able to use Unleash which we know he can't do.

 

 

His hands could be smoking because he partially absorbed it with Protect and took the rest on Soak. I think an argument could be made that he knows Protect/Unleash and just narratively describes it as throwing objects, or Force slamming people. That said, I agree Reflect is the simple answer...just playing Devil's advocate on the Unleash stuff.

 

Also, unlike previous incarnations of the power (such as the WEG Absorb/Dissipate Energy), Protect is not an "all or nothing" power. 

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