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Oberron

First time playing Epic, Need a quick list critique

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First time playing epic tomorrow and I threw this list together and wanted a quick list critique, I have no idea what to expect from epic.

 

RAC+adaptibility+gunner+Rebel captive+Ysanne+engine upgrade

Vader+title+proton Rockets+predator+ATC+Engine upgrade

Omega leader+juke+comms

Epsilon leader+comms

Backdraft+vi+fcs+sensor cluster+title

quickdraft+swarm tactics+Collision detector+sensor cluster+title

Rexler Brath+tie/d+tractor beam+ruthlessness

Whisper+VI+gunner+fcs+ACD

 

300 on point and all painted first order colors or special forces colors.

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Ok, you have 7 ships, all being top pilots and fully loaded up. They will die extremely quickly unless your opponent builds a similar list.

The question I have is: do you want to make a list which is likely to win? A list which will be fun? Or a list which will die very quickly?

For fun, I'd go with a themed squadron such as Vader plus all the Tie Fighters from the Death Star battle. Add a Decimator if you have the points - but keep it cheap because it will last no more than 2 rounds.

For winning, one of the strongest lists is all 4 Brobots plus 4 TLT-Y-Wings. But that's a bit boring.

The next 300pt list I intend to try is 2 Gozanti carriers plus 8 Royal Guard Interceptors. It will be quite dice dependant, but hopefully fun even if each Interceptor dies in 1 round.

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Glarius is right, at 300pts if you bring all loaded aces it'll be a tough fight. Your scariest hardest hitting Ace will get focused down and you won't get to fly him much :( I have tried a Deci in big point games and typically is lucky to survive 2 rounds. At that many points more ships and more greens tends to be more effective. Not to say it couldn't be fun, but you will need to melt your opponent with concentrated fire fast and effective on the first combat pass. If they bring a bunch of generics you can shoot first, but you can't get them all before they shoot back and they will burn something down. Its not impossible, but in my exp, with all the ships, there will be bumps and your aces will suffer without their actions. The below list is something I have toyed with, but I still think I'm toying with too many points per ship.

 

 (300)

 

"Howlrunner" (23) - TIE Fighter

Wingman (2), Stealth Device (3)

 

"Omega Leader" (29) - TIE/FO Fighter

Juke (2), Comm Relay (3), Stealth Device (3)

 

"Omega Ace" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter

Push The Limit (3), Stealth Device (3)

 

"Zeta Leader" (24) - TIE/FO Fighter

Wired (1), Stealth Device (3)

 

Colonel Vessery (34) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2)

 

Countess Ryad (36) - TIE Defender

Push The Limit (3), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

 

Valen Rudor (28) - TIE Adv. Prototype

Push The Limit (3), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

 

Soontir Fel (34) - TIE Interceptor

Push The Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Targeting Computer (2), Autothrusters (2)

 

"Whisper" (44) - TIE Phantom

Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Gunner (5), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

(This is probably a bad idea if she doesn't make it to late game)

 

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (22) - TIE Bomber Concussion Missiles (4), Extra Munitions (2), Long-Range Scanners (0)

(I think this may be a bad 22pts, but minimally it will probably draw the first shots "My imperial Biggs")

 

 

 

As far as your list goes, I would strip the Deci and use Kenkirk with Isard for survive-ability  and probably drop the prockets on Vader and see if you can squeeze in a couple of academy ties or something to block with.

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6 Glaives with /x7 and Crackshot plus 3 with /x7 and Juke could win games but probably not friends. ;)

Sadly you'd need to be playing with 400pts, otherwise you are only allowed 8 of the same ship...so, you'll be needing 12!

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Named pilots are difficult in Epic, as they so often die to focused fire. I've found that, in epic games, there are simply too many arcs to dodge. I've always favoured the Swarm in epic. Here's a Rebel Swarm:

 

Green Squadron Pilot (21) x 5
A-Wing (19), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Chardaan Refit (-2), Snap Shot (2), Juke (2)

Biggs Darklighter (28)
X-Wing (25), R2-F2 (3), Integrated Astromech (0)

Shara Bey (35)
ARC-170 (28), M9-G8 (3), Veteran Instincts (1), Weapons Engineer (3), Alliance Overhaul (0)

Bodhi Rook (30)
U-Wing (25), Fire-Control System (2), Jyn Erso (2), Inspiring Recruit (1), Pivot Wing (0)

Corran Horn (50)
E-Wing (35), R2-D2 (4), Sensor Jammer (4), Push the Limit (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

Miranda Doni (52)
K-Wing (29), Twin Laser Turret (6), Extra Munitions (2), Homing Missiles (5), C-3PO (3), Ion Bombs (2), Proton Bombs (5), Guidance Chips (0)

 

So you have 10 attacks a turn with A-wings, and n the massive scrum of Epic, you know that all 5 snap shots will trigger most of the time. The second 100 points is Super-Biggs and Shara - Biggs with R2-F2 and Jyn (On Bodhi) gives him 4 focus tokens, so your opponent's entire first turn is taken up with killing him. Bodhi himself is a massive support piece, allowing every single ship (and Shara especially) to get any target lock they want. 50 point Corran is amazingly durable - and will strip every focus token on the board before going down with sensor Jammer (note - he is supposed to die immediately after Biggs - so the opponent uses 2 turns to only kill 2 ships). If the opponent is foolish enough to take a loaded out huge ship Shara target locks both ssections with M9-G8 and weapons engineer to make half their list reroll dice on every attack. Finally, Miranda is escorted by Biggs for the first few turns, allowing her to punch hard with Homing Missiles (on either a Huge ship or expensive ship), then drop some Proton/Ion bombs for devastating effect.

 

In a swarm like this I have up to 16 attacks as my alpha strike with Biggs, then Corran, to draw fire away from the actual heavy hitters (A-wings, Miranda, Shara). 57 total hull and shields. Plus support abilities (Shara) and splash damage (Miranda). Its a whale to beat. Still, if you want the All-named epic:

 

“Howlrunner” (19)
TIE Fighter (18), Crack Shot (1)

“Scourge” (18)
TIE Fighter (17), Crack Shot (1)

“Mauler Mithel” (18)
TIE Fighter (17), Crack Shot (1)

“Backstabber” (16)

“Wampa” (14)

“Dark Curse” (16)

Soontir Fel (32)
TIE Interceptor (27), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2)

Carnor Jax (31)
TIE Interceptor (26), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2)

Turr Phennir (28)
TIE Interceptor (25), Veteran Instincts (1), Autothrusters (2)

Colonel Vessery (41)
TIE Defender (35), Ion Cannon (3), Ruthlessness (3), TIE/D (0)

Rexler Brath (41)
TIE Defender (37), Tractor beam (1), Ruthlessness (3)

Captain Jonus (26)
TIE Bomber (22), TIE Shuttle (0), Draw Their Fire (1), Fleet Officer (3)

You've got a named TIE swarm (not super great, but if it doesn't get attacked first it does more damage than a standard one), three high PS interceptors for flanking and disruption, Two Defenders to mess with swarms (Tractor + Ion onto a rock) that get splash damage with ruthlessness, and Jonus in a support shuttle (For Brath and Vessery).

 

You have a total of 12 ships, which is about average for Epic. An alpha strike of 14 attacks with some splash damage and disruption, and a decent amount of durability. The main difference between this list and the OP's is that the average pilot skill hare is about 7 - ideal for epic. You need to shoot before swarms and move after them (Its just about essential), but buying PS for arc-dodging is largely wasted in epic, due to the enormous number of arcs to dodge. While the Interceptors contradict this a bit, you do need an endgame plan, and Interceptors are great if they can survive.

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Well had my epic game and the decimator did die quickly but was able to do solid damage before going down and forced my opponent to spend half of his ships to take it down  which gave me time to have my ships to systematically focus down his ships. I also forgot to equip vader with his prockets. But being able to shoot first with all of my ships felt very strong. I do have a few questions about epic.

 

Is 12-14 ships a side really the average you would see? My opponent brought only 9 ships to my 8 so i guess it was pretty "balanced" as it was both of our first time in epic.

I do have a raider that i wanna give a shot next time we do epic. Is the raider worth it? If it is what to equip it with? (i only have the raider epic ship none of the others)

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12 is about the average I've faced personally. It'd drop to something around 6-7 if somebody brings a Raider or Tantive IV.

 

The Raider is an extremely fun ship that you should definitely use in epic. That said, I'll probably be going to a tournament md-January (team-epic, 400 pts), and I'll be bringing plenty of Assault missiles and Ion torpedoes to mess with the big guns. They're powerful, dominant on the board and utilitarian, but they're basically a decimator and a half of health for 150 pts, run with average upgrades.

 

If you do use the Raider, get a friend to give you the Ordinance tubes modification from the Gozanti pack. It gives you pretty, pretty missiles.

 

Also, what did you face in your match (the general gist of it)?

Edited by Astech

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From what i can recall:

 

Dash with his donut HLC setup

couple of arc 170s thera? and norra wexley can't remeber their upgrades

corren and poe(ps8 poe)

two ps 4 x-wiings

and two ps 2 e-wings.

 

 

Also I'm an imperial only player and I only collect imperial ships, i normally trade for any upgrades I can't get from imperial ships.

Edited by Oberron

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Sounds like you and your friend brought very similar lists. And so you had fun, which is the important part.

Fly the Raider - it's my favourite ship in the whole game - but it fits better in a 400pt game, unless your opponent also fields a corvette.

In my second epic game, I made a powerful list with lots of ships. My opponent brought a list like yours. It wasn't fun at all. I lost 1 Tie Fighter and 3 Interceptors. He lost all 400pts except for his last A-Wing which fled. Since then, we've compared lists in advance so we could be balanced.

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I think that the proper approach to Epic list building is to think of the regular game as too small because you can only do one tactic - Ace, Swarm, Alpha Strike, PWTs, and so on - and try to do several or all of those tactics in a proper Epic list.

 

Have an Ace or two to counter their Aces - VI Vader is good because he trumps them all and isn't too hard to keep out of the fight until you have to commit him.

 

Have a low PS swarm - TIE/IN Alphas and TIE/x7 Deltas are good because they can dish out a fair bit of damage, the Alphas are cheap, and the Deltas are highly durable for the price. I don't actually like TIE Fighters or /FOs because they just don't deal enough damage to make a significant difference. However, a case can be made for the swarm matching/beating PS4, because that's when Huge ships fire. My last game I compromised: the TIE/INs were naked RGPs, the Defenders were Deltas.

 

Don't forget the Raider's best friend: Captain Jonus. I do like sticking Draw Their Fire on him because Huge Ship crits are so nasty, and if you're going the Ordnance Tubes route it's likely that you'll be Recovering shields every turn pretty freely and may only suffer one or two crits a turn at worst.

 

I think that the best way to deploy the Raider is in one corner and gradually sweep across the board; that way if they want a shot at your aft they're gonna have to pass through your arcs at least once. I envy the Tantive's turret.

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I wish there were more topics on Epic. I own 1 of every epic ship, but never used them yet. I would like to see what upgrades are used on the Huge ships; what works and doesn't work on them. They are beautiful models and I would like to start using them. (Also to justify the cost of purchasing them).  :P

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I wish there were more topics on Epic. I own 1 of every epic ship, but never used them yet. I would like to see what upgrades are used on the Huge ships; what works and doesn't work on them. They are beautiful models and I would like to start using them. (Also to justify the cost of purchasing them).  :P

Go ahead! Buy a bigger table if you have to! I haven't used all 6 of mine in one battle yet, but we'll have Raider and Goz vs CR90 vs stolen Scum Raider this weekend.

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I wish there were more topics on Epic. I own 1 of every epic ship, but never used them yet. I would like to see what upgrades are used on the Huge ships; what works and doesn't work on them. They are beautiful models and I would like to start using them. (Also to justify the cost of purchasing them).  :P

Go ahead! Buy a bigger table if you have to! I haven't used all 6 of mine in one battle yet, but we'll have Raider and Goz vs CR90 vs stolen Scum Raider this weekend.

 

Oh, table size isn't an  issue. It's getting enough interest to play Epic. Almost everyone in my gaming group is about 100 pt. death matches with virtually no talk about Epic.  :(

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Make a 100pt list that includes the Gozanti...let them play against it and see if they change their minds.

Bring your models to gaming sessions and put them on display next to your game. See who's interested and play them next time.

Advertising, basically. It might work.

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We have a 20 player epic league ongoing since September, ending in January (followed by the "playoffs" eliminations).

 

The Raider - both builds (ordnance and non-ordnance) - is currently dominating the league but slowly everyone is learning how to build lists to prevent getting killed outright by such an Epic list.

 

My latest game I had 8 ships as rebels (7 on the table, docked shuttle in VCX Ghost) consisting of big names with relatively few upgrades so that I could fit enough of 'em. 77 hulls + shields on the table (+4 for the shuttle that never came out of the Ghost). Thats definitely different than your build because of how much hulls and shields I got! 

 

The key in Epic is not to rely on one guy doing the whole job - even the raider cannot do it on his own, he needs the support - Howlrunner and Jonus give their rerolls to the raider - highly important, and Decoy will make the PS4 raider shoot way ahead of what you'd expect, PS8 Raider will take down a lot of your toys with ease before they can get anything done.

 

My "large ship" list relied on surviving, and even then I ended with only 2 ships at the end (Miranda and Ghost+Phantom (docked) still kickin').

There's also the matter of "Alpha Strikes" - you literally begin so close to your opponent's deployment zone (and he to yours of course) that any Huge Ship deployed is at risk of a mega alpha strike - which is why you'll often see a Huge Ship in a corner and placing rocks near the border of the map (the only restriction for asteroids is deployment zones, they CAN be placed on the left or right border edges of the map) so that you dont have too much that can go full forward and unload big attacks.

 

Our league is basically to practice and find what works, and then we have our lil tournament playoffs that will take a month or 2 to play through. We play 1 epic game per 2 weeks (as per the schedule though you can play games in advance to accomodate everyone's schedules) at the regular 300 pts 5 epic pts format. Its great.

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