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Joza Fett

Manaroo destroying red TLs?

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I have been playing with Manaroo for a while now and I just noticed this now in the rules reference:

 

• If an effect removes a blue or red target lock
token from a ship, the matching red or blue

target lock token is also removed (unless the blue
target lock is assigned to another ship).

 

​Does this men that when Manaroo assigns TL tokens to another ship, only the blue ones stick and red ones are removed as their corresponding blue token from enemy ship is removed?

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You are assigning the tokens currently to Manaroo to another ship.

Your not removing at all.

Are there any specific game term definitions for 'remove' and 'assign' anywhere ?

If not, using plain english definitions of the terms, when assugning stuff to another ship you are removing them from Manaroo, are you not?

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I don't have time to dig ATM (merry Christmas etc) but 'asign' and 'remove' certainly have specific connotations within xwing. I'm sure there is a specific thing somewhere but tbh, with this Interaction id say it falls under the golden rule of games with cards in them.

Do what the card says, not what the card doesn't. It says assign it doesn't say remove. At no point do you actually 'remove' the lock. The wording g of the card would over time any 'common sense' notion of removing g it from Manaroo.

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Do what the card says, not what the card doesn't. It says assign it doesn't say remove. At no point do you actually 'remove' the lock. The wording g of the card would over time any 'common sense' notion of removing g it from Manaroo.

How does one assign the target lock to another ship without removing it from Manaroo? I understand the point, but take exception to the notion that this objection is some kind of common sense; it is from the point of view of formal logic impossible not to remove the target lock. Common sense, if anything, would suggest that the target lock is not removed in game terms, because that's how the game is probably supposed to work.

Compare it to me saying 'everybody knows the E-Wing needs a fix.' Formally, 'everybody' would entail every single person on this planet, but common sense tells us what is probably meant in the context of this forum.

Game meanings are the epitome of common sense; our mind tells us what the sensible context is.

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if it helps, think that you're "moving it from" not "removing it from".

It's 100% the way it works both as written and as intended.

Possible counterpoint: If all effects that move a target lock from ship A to ship B are meant to work as you are implying (and not remove from A, assign to B), then what's the point of 'unless the blue target lock is assigned to another ship' from the rules reference?

By your interpretation the quoted part would be unnecessary because you are 'moving it from' not 'removing it from' so a target lock assigned to another ship wouldn't count as removed in the first place.

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Do what the card says, not what the card doesn't. It says assign it doesn't say remove. At no point do you actually 'remove' the lock. The wording g of the card would over time any 'common sense' notion of removing g it from Manaroo.

How does one assign the target lock to another ship without removing it from Manaroo? I understand the point, but take exception to the notion that this objection is some kind of common sense; it is from the point of view of formal logic impossible not to remove the target lock. Common sense, if anything, would suggest that the target lock is not removed in game terms, because that's how the game is probably supposed to work.

Compare it to me saying 'everybody knows the E-Wing needs a fix.' Formally, 'everybody' would entail every single person on this planet, but common sense tells us what is probably meant in the context of this forum.

Game meanings are the epitome of common sense; our mind tells us what the sensible context is.

When power gamers and rules lawyers attack... you remove a TL by using it. You use a red TL to reroll die, so you remove the red token from the defender so therefore you must remove the blue TL from the attacker. Manaroo assigns tokens as has been said by so many people on here already.

You remove the TL's from your token bag so you have to discard them. By the letter of the English law.... you are going to run out of tokens as they will have been discarded at some point.

Don't be that guy and play it as intended. Merry Christmas.

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http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/xwing-miniatures/images/1/11/Expert-handling.png/revision/latest?cb=20121029013327

(Edit-supposed to be image of Expert Handling. Can't get the image to show. )

This removes, therefore both halves of the target lock are removed

 

You need to trim the version control stuff off the end for it to work:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/xwing-miniatures/images/1/11/Expert-handling.png/revision/latest?cb=20121029013327'>http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/xwing-miniatures/images/1/11/Expert-handling.png/revision/latest?cb=20121029013327

 

becomes

 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/xwing-miniatures/images/1/11/Expert-handling.png

 

Which works with this forum's image tag:

 

Expert-handling.png

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Don't be that guy and play it as intended. Merry Christmas.

No offense,but unless you are, or were, part of the x-wing design team, your claims of what's intended are no more valid than the claims of any other guy.You have no way of knowing for sure.

Back to the issue at hand,the rules reference says that the matching target lock is destroyed, unless the blue target lock is assigned to another ship.

If passing a target lock doesn't qualify, then what other mechanic currently in game would qualify as removing a blue target lock and the assigning it to another ship ?

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I don't understand why anyone would think the target lock would be removed, when Manaroo's card specifically says to assign a target lock to another ship. The rules also state cards override basic rules. If you had to remove both lock tokens, or only keep one, the ability would be completely useless.

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I don't understand why anyone would think the target lock would be removed, when Manaroo's card specifically says to assign a target lock to another ship. The rules also state cards override basic rules. If you had to remove both lock tokens, or only keep one, the ability would be completely useless.

It's quite useful if a red target lock on Manaroo is destroyed.

The rules are not completely clear when cards override rules. For example, if I fly a stressed ship next to Lando (pilot), Lando cannot grant the stressed ship the ability to take an action. Lando's ability does not override the stress rules.

In this case, I think Manaroo's card text does override the Rules Reference, but it's a hunch based on how I think the rules should work.

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In this case, I think Manaroo's card text does override the Rules Reference, but it's a hunch based on how I think the rules should work.

My thoughts exactly. I completely agree that the interpretation of most people is probably how Manaroo SHOULD work. I disagree that it's 100% clear that's how Manaroo DOES work with the current rules.

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It's absolutely clear. The card says assign all tokens including target lock tokens to a friendly ship. It's ridiculous to interpret it otherwise.

Counterpoint: In order to assign the tokens to another ship are you not removing them from Manaroo?

AFAIK 'remove' as a game term is not defined anywhere.

PS: I have also asked this to FFG and hopefully an official answer will be given.

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It's absolutely clear. The card says assign all tokens including target lock tokens to a friendly ship. It's ridiculous to interpret it otherwise.

Counterpoint: In order to assign the tokens to another ship are you not removing them from Manaroo?

AFAIK 'remove' as a game term is not defined anywhere.

PS: I have also asked this to FFG and hopefully an official answer will be given.

No you are not, because the card does not instruct you to remove them.

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