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WWHSD

Avoid frustration and wait to roll the die from Lightweight Frame.

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If you roll your defense dice plus the die you know that you are going to get to roll from Lightweight Frame at the same time then you've rolled too many dice. Per the rules, you'll need to ignore the results and reroll the correct number of dice.

 

It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time. 

 

 

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It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time. 

 

Yeh, this is what I did last night. Guy was so **** salty.

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If you roll your defense dice plus the die you know that you are going to get to roll from Lightweight Frame at the same time then you've rolled too many dice. Per the rules, you'll need to ignore the results and reroll the correct number of dice.

 

It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time. 

If there was someone that pathetic and desperate to win, why would you even play with them?

 

However, if you did, nothing in the rules denotes how long "after" is, so tell them you did wait til after; the extra die was simply the die that landed on the table after all the others.

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If you roll your defense dice plus the die you know that you are going to get to roll from Lightweight Frame at the same time then you've rolled too many dice. Per the rules, you'll need to ignore the results and reroll the correct number of dice.

 

It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time. 

If there was someone that pathetic and desperate to win, why would you even play with them?

 

However, if you did, nothing in the rules denotes how long "after" is, so tell them you did wait til after; the extra die was simply the die that landed on the table after all the others.

 

Or you could just take the extra second to play the card properly and avoid any issues at all.

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It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time. 

 

Yeh, this is what I did last night. Guy was so **** salty.

 

I hope you become the Pariah of your FLGS for this.

 

Nobody deserves to have to play with someone like you.

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this is also good practice to perform because it showcases why lightweight frame is not a strict +1 agility

 

i.e range bonuses and obstruction

 

if you're a 2 agi ship benefiting from either v a 3-dice attack, lightweight doesn't do jack diddly squat since it kicks in after rolling defense dice

Edited by ficklegreendice

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if you're a 2 agi ship benefiting from either v a 3-dice attack, lightweight doesn't do jack diddly squat since it kicks in after rolling defense dice

 

Hmm... interesting point.

 

"You cannot equip this card if your agility value is "3" or higher."

 

Does "agility value" mean what is printed on the card OR card value + circumstantial modifiers (range, obstruction, etc).

 

I interpreted it as the number on the card, but you have a valid point.

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if you're a 2 agi ship benefiting from either v a 3-dice attack, lightweight doesn't do jack diddly squat since it kicks in after rolling defense dice

Hmm... interesting point.

"You cannot equip this card if your agility value is "3" or higher."

Does "agility value" mean what is printed on the card OR card value + circumstantial modifiers (range, obstruction, etc).

I interpreted it as the number on the card, but you have a valid point.

Range and obstructions don't count as adding agility to your ship. They add green dice. That's a big difference. I'll follow this up with that's how our group interputs the rule Edited by tk426

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For reference, the card text:

 

"When defending, after rolling defense dice, if there are more attack dice than defense dice, roll 1 additional defense die.

 
You cannot equip this card if your agility value is "3" or higher."
 
So yeah, if you're hit with a three-dice attack, you have a natural agility of 2, and you pick up an extra die for range bonus or obstruction, your lightweight frame adds nothing.

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if you're a 2 agi ship benefiting from either v a 3-dice attack, lightweight doesn't do jack diddly squat since it kicks in after rolling defense dice

Hmm... interesting point.

"You cannot equip this card if your agility value is "3" or higher."

Does "agility value" mean what is printed on the card OR card value + circumstantial modifiers (range, obstruction, etc).

I interpreted it as the number on the card, but you have a valid point.

Range and obstructions don't count as adding agility to your ship. They add green dice. That's a big difference. I'll follow this up with that's how our group interputs the rule

 

Unfortunately the card doesnt ask how much agility you have compared to their attack pool. Only how many defense dice you rolled during the Roll Defense Dice step. So range and obstruction do count towards the card.

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If you roll your defense dice plus the die you know that you are going to get to roll from Lightweight Frame at the same time then you've rolled too many dice. Per the rules, you'll need to ignore the results and reroll the correct number of dice.

It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time.

If there was someone that pathetic and desperate to win, why would you even play with them?

However, if you did, nothing in the rules denotes how long "after" is, so tell them you did wait til after; the extra die was simply the die that landed on the table after all the others.

Or you could just take the extra second to play the card properly and avoid any issues at all.

You also want to force your opponent to play the card correctly if they are the one that has it. If they roll all the dice at once and roll crappy they can catch themselves rolling too many dice to get a shot at better rolls. Edited by WWHSD

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If you roll your defense dice plus the die you know that you are going to get to roll from Lightweight Frame at the same time then you've rolled too many dice. Per the rules, you'll need to ignore the results and reroll the correct number of dice.

 

It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time.

If there was someone that pathetic and desperate to win, why would you even play with them?

A lot of times I'm not going to know the person on the other side of the table from me. Even if I knew someone I was matched against had a reputation for pulling that sort of crap, I wouldn't forfeit just to avoid playing them since that rewards their behavior. Instead, I'd play the game by the rules. Taking shortcuts and playing sloppy creates opportunities for horseshittery.

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If you roll your defense dice plus the die you know that you are going to get to roll from Lightweight Frame at the same time then you've rolled too many dice. Per the rules, you'll need to ignore the results and reroll the correct number of dice.

 

It's entirely possible that an opponent will allow you to roll all the dice at once without comment all game long until you have a very good roll at a critical time.

I remember a discussion I had here about the activation sequence. Strictly, you're not allowed to first move a bunch of academy pilots and then give them all focus tokens, but I've seen the best players do it. At the right moment, the opponent can say 'hey, he cannot do an action because another ship already activated.'

 

Of course, there's a good chance that a judge will rule that the action can be taken, but I'm not sure if that is something one should count on. X-Wing has more than a few of those 'gotcha' opportunities.

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Unfortunately the card doesnt ask how much agility you have compared to their attack pool. Only how many defense dice you rolled during the Roll Defense Dice step. So range and obstruction do count towards the card.

Although at the same time, so do 'roll one less attack die' effects - so in theory, it could still trigger against a weaker attack if you've been assigned a tractor token, for example.

 

May be worth remembering against Quadjumpers; because that extra die isn't agility, no amount of bloody spacetugs can take it away from you.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Wait what...? 

Unless being total jerk just for being jerk, what is the difference if you roll 3 dice at once or 2 then 1 in this case? Did i miss any interaction? All mods happen after, this wording is strictly there for not abusing range 3...

 

If anyone would make me reroll "framed" roll just cause i didn't roll 2+1 i would tell him to fk himself, period.

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Wait what...? 

Unless being total jerk just for being jerk, what is the difference if you roll 3 dice at once or 2 then 1 in this case? Did i miss any interaction? All mods happen after, this wording is strictly there for not abusing range 3...

 

If anyone would make me reroll "framed" roll just cause i didn't roll 2+1 i would tell him to fk himself, period.

I get that, it's just that the rules allow for some exploitation. The question is not about what is the right thing to do or who is a jerk (I think we agree that is fairly obvious, although I would use the term 'WAAC player' rather than 'jerk'), but how to prevent the situation in the first place.

And how to resolve it. 'Go [whatever] yourself' is not a solution.

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if you're a 2 agi ship benefiting from either v a 3-dice attack, lightweight doesn't do jack diddly squat since it kicks in after rolling defense dice

Hmm... interesting point.

"You cannot equip this card if your agility value is "3" or higher."

Does "agility value" mean what is printed on the card OR card value + circumstantial modifiers (range, obstruction, etc).

I interpreted it as the number on the card, but you have a valid point.

Range and obstructions don't count as adding agility to your ship. They add green dice. That's a big difference. I'll follow this up with that's how our group interputs the rule

Unfortunately the card doesnt ask how much agility you have compared to their attack pool. Only how many defense dice you rolled during the Roll Defense Dice step. So range and obstruction do count towards the card.

Sorry if I mislead. I wasn't trying to imply that you would get the extra dice from Lightweight Frame if at R3 and/or through an obstruction. I was simply letting him know that those conditions to my knowledge don't add agility they add green dice.

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Wait what...? 

Unless being total jerk just for being jerk, what is the difference if you roll 3 dice at once or 2 then 1 in this case? Did i miss any interaction? All mods happen after, this wording is strictly there for not abusing range 3...

 

If anyone would make me reroll "framed" roll just cause i didn't roll 2+1 i would tell him to fk himself, period.

I get that, it's just that the rules allow for some exploitation. The question is not about what is the right thing to do or who is a jerk (I think we agree that is fairly obvious, although I would use the term 'WAAC player' rather than 'jerk'), but how to prevent the situation in the first place.

And how to resolve it. 'Go [whatever] yourself' is not a solution.

 

Yea well this scenario thrown me off balance a little as we can see ;)

 

Well is there really any resolution that makes sense?

You both are right:

- demanding to reroll such a roll is correct by the rules

- demanding to let it stay is correct by sportsmanship and common sense.

 

In a casual - i would tell the opponent what part of male anatomy i would compare him to and pack the bags (ofc only if someone insisted - simply saying: "could you roll 2+1 not 3 next time, please" would be perfectly ok.)

In tournament - call the TO to judge. Most TOs i know would rule it to be ok as far as i know them if that was really only matter of 3vs2+1.

Edited by Vitalis

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