Why I like Episode 7 MORE than Rogue One

[Crabbok 9,869]

Lets not lose sight of the fact that both TFA and R1 are both great films.  Yes I said great, because lets not forget the prequels.... Disney could have turned the new Star Wars into a Jar Jar Binks festival, but they've taken it in a GOOD direction, done things that we MOSTLY enjoy - and there are even brighter days ahead.   I love that we are criticizing the finer points of these movies rather than just saying that they completely suck.  

 

Never forget how bad things COULD have been.   They are doing good things with the franchise.   My cup runneth over. 

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Lets not lose sight of the fact that both TFA and R1 are both great films.  Yes I said great, because lets not forget the prequels.... Disney could have turned the new Star Wars into a Jar Jar Binks festival, but they've taken it in a GOOD direction, done things that we MOSTLY enjoy - and there are even brighter days ahead.   I love that we are criticizing the finer points of these movies rather than just saying that they completely suck.  

 

Never forget how bad things COULD have been.   They are doing good things with the franchise.   My cup runneth over. 

They are above average at best certainly not great people just let hype blind them same happened with episode 1, they are much better than the prequels but if they weren't star wars films they'd already be forgotten.

[ScummyRebel 5,346]

I thought Rogue One was better than TFA.  I saw TFA once in theaters, and then waited for the DVD before watching a second time.  I am seriously considering taking advantage of the holiday weekend to go see R1 again.

 

TFA is good, but it's more of a nostalgia film with how Disney and JJ played it so safe as to basically copy the ANH formula.

 

R1 was largely original, and even if we knew that the Rebels had to succeed in getting the plans to Tantive IV, we had no idea what was going to happen for sure along that route.  They took what we saw long ago as a couple of paragraphs and turned it into a full movie, and did it well.  I didn't think CGI Tarkin was too bad.  There were weaknesses to the movie, sure, but that's true of any and all modern filmmaking in the era of commercialism and effects before storyline.  I still found the story of R1 to be stronger than that of a copied formula from ANH.

 

They're both good movies, both better than the prequels.  But I really like R1 compared to TFA.  Hoping Ep8 improves on the TFA characters and ventures into more original territory instead of a rehashed ESB.  The TFA characters need and deserve the work.

[Sithborg 11,644]

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red letter media too.

 

This may shock you, but not everyone considers Red Letter Media to be the masters of what is "good" Star Wars. 

 

The Marvel films do nothing for me. But, that doesn't mean I am calling them bad films. 

[Hobojebus 11,341]

 

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red letter media too.

 

This may shock you, but not everyone considers Red Letter Media to be the masters of what is "good" Star Wars. 

 

The Marvel films do nothing for me. But, that doesn't mean I am calling them bad films. 

 

I called them average not bad please don't put words in my mouth.

[Dagonet 7,246]

R1 was largely original, still found the story of R1 to be stronger than that of a copied formula from ANH.

 

Just going to be a bit tongue in cheek here.

Protagonist is orphaned.

Raised by gruff parental substitute.

Gets an older mentor.

Mentor dies/gets separated from protagonist for duration of story.

Protagonist surmounts insurmountable odds to pull off a win by the skin of their teeth, with a little aid from a distractionary force.

There's loss in the form of friends gone.

ANH, TFA or R1?

Or LotR of course.

With some minor variations for each.

Dune'd fit.

So would Harry Potter.

It's in the variations that we find our appreciation.

[markcsoul 2,135]

I wouldn't mind seeing another live action movie or two in this era or a bit earlier while jimmy Smits and the mon mothma actress are still young enough.

Would be cool to see them in the "imperial" senate to see how things had changed.

Maybe showing other transitions in a film like venerators to star destroyers and v-wings to tie fighters and so on.

[Jo Jo 4,808]

 

 

They also claim that the TFA characters are more fleshed out and deep, but in my opinion they really aren't (and don't make a lot of sense). Rey's background is basically a complete mystery. All we know is she was dropped off on Jakku and now just salvages parts and eats dehydrated food. However, she magically becomes a formidable Jedi without any training whatsoever. She's good at everything! Great character! She really has no arc. Her arc is touching a lightsaber and all of a sudden becoming a Jedi. However, before that she can out fly trained Imperial pilots in a ship she has never set foot in. Hopefully Episode VIII will give us some explanation, either she was formally trained and had a mind wipe... Or that Luke has become powerful enough he can manipulate people that are force sensitive and guide them. At least Luke had to go through some turmoil before he was able to face Vader and win.  

Has she never set foot in the Falcon though? How would you know?

And she is far from a jedi. In desperation she can barely hold off a wounded and severely distraught Ren.

 

 

 

 

Literally: 

 

Finn - "You ever fly this thing before?" 

 

Rey - "No!" 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Literally: 

 

Finn - "You ever fly this thing before?" 

 

Rey - "No!" 

 

...and less than five minutes later she's flying it better than previous owner Lando did during Death Star II (Ma Rey Sue doesn't even lose the sensor dish).

[Dagonet 7,246]

 

 

 

They also claim that the TFA characters are more fleshed out and deep, but in my opinion they really aren't (and don't make a lot of sense). Rey's background is basically a complete mystery. All we know is she was dropped off on Jakku and now just salvages parts and eats dehydrated food. However, she magically becomes a formidable Jedi without any training whatsoever. She's good at everything! Great character! She really has no arc. Her arc is touching a lightsaber and all of a sudden becoming a Jedi. However, before that she can out fly trained Imperial pilots in a ship she has never set foot in. Hopefully Episode VIII will give us some explanation, either she was formally trained and had a mind wipe... Or that Luke has become powerful enough he can manipulate people that are force sensitive and guide them. At least Luke had to go through some turmoil before he was able to face Vader and win.  

Has she never set foot in the Falcon though? How would you know?

And she is far from a jedi. In desperation she can barely hold off a wounded and severely distraught Ren.

 

 

 

 

Literally: 

 

Finn - "You ever fly this thing before?" 

 

Rey - "No!" 

 

 

Flying is different from setting foot in it, I think she's been in it lots of times (knowing what Plutt had done with certain systems for instance is a dead giveaway). She may not have flown it, but she sure as hell knew her way around (of course, it's the ship she was brought in). And she ran towards the Quadjumper, so we know she can fly spaceships.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

 

 

 

 

They also claim that the TFA characters are more fleshed out and deep, but in my opinion they really aren't (and don't make a lot of sense). Rey's background is basically a complete mystery. All we know is she was dropped off on Jakku and now just salvages parts and eats dehydrated food. However, she magically becomes a formidable Jedi without any training whatsoever. She's good at everything! Great character! She really has no arc. Her arc is touching a lightsaber and all of a sudden becoming a Jedi. However, before that she can out fly trained Imperial pilots in a ship she has never set foot in. Hopefully Episode VIII will give us some explanation, either she was formally trained and had a mind wipe... Or that Luke has become powerful enough he can manipulate people that are force sensitive and guide them. At least Luke had to go through some turmoil before he was able to face Vader and win.  

Has she never set foot in the Falcon though? How would you know?

And she is far from a jedi. In desperation she can barely hold off a wounded and severely distraught Ren.

 

 

 

 

Literally: 

 

Finn - "You ever fly this thing before?" 

 

Rey - "No!" 

 

 

Flying is different from setting foot in it, I think she's been in it lots of times (knowing what Plutt had done with certain systems for instance is a dead giveaway). She may not have flown it, but she sure as hell knew her way around (of course, it's the ship she was brought in). And she ran towards the Quadjumper, so we know she can fly spaceships.

 

No we don't it neither shows nor tells us she can fly a spaceship, hope established he was a pilot long before he got in his x-wing.

[TheNewShmoo 71]

Once you started watching TFAs it was a pretty predictable movie. Of course they were going to blow up the Starkiller base. You could also see Han Solo's confrontation with his son and eventual death a mile away. It was a reboot, plan and simple. Nothing really interesting was added with Episode VII. You got a female Luke (that doesn't need training apparently), a Jar Jar type goofball Stormtrooper, and a pilot that did nothing but fly. The whole Resistance vs. First Order seemed silly. Why can't the good guys be the more powerful force while a guerilla type element of the old Empire is trying to over throw the Republic? To me that would have been a way more compelling story. TFAs was the same old thing we are used to with a different polish on it. It was the safest movie Disney could have possibly done. A movie wrapped in bubble wrap and reflector belts.

 

Totally agree. I think it would have been much more compelling if they did a multi-movie story about the First Order rising to power and becoming a serious threat like the old Empire. But I think they were too scared to do anything different and just wanted to immediately push the reset button and get back to the status quo of the original trilogy: underdog rebels fighting against the powerful empire and the obligatory jedi vs sith light saber battle in every movie. Thus we got another movie where the good guys destroy a planet killing space station <yawn>. I really hope the success of Rogue One makes Disney understand that good stories are what will make the Star Wars franchise a success, not endlessly rehashing the formula of the original trilogy.

Edited January 9, 2017 by TheNewShmoo

[Dagonet 7,246]

 underdog rebels fighting against the powerful empire and the obligatory jedi vs sith light saber battle in every movie. Thus we got another movie where the good guys destroy a planet killing space station <yawn>.

 

 

Yeah, I was a bit underwhelmed by the lack of originality in RotJ myself.

 

There was no Jedi vs Sith fight in TFA though. .

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

 

Once you started watching TFAs it was a pretty predictable movie. Of course they were going to blow up the Starkiller base. You could also see Han Solo's confrontation with his son and eventual death a mile away. It was a reboot, plan and simple. Nothing really interesting was added with Episode VII. You got a female Luke (that doesn't need training apparently), a Jar Jar type goofball Stormtrooper, and a pilot that did nothing but fly. The whole Resistance vs. First Order seemed silly. Why can't the good guys be the more powerful force while a guerilla type element of the old Empire is trying to over throw the Republic? To me that would have been a way more compelling story. TFAs was the same old thing we are used to with a different polish on it. It was the safest movie Disney could have possibly done. A movie wrapped in bubble wrap and reflector belts.

 

Totally agree. I think it would have been much more compelling if they did a multi-movie story about the First Order rising to power and becoming a serious threat like the old Empire. But I think they were too scared to do anything different and just wanted to immediately push the reset button and get back to the status quo of the original trilogy: underdog rebels fighting against the powerful empire and the obligatory jedi vs sith light saber battle in every movie. Thus we got another movie where the good guys destroy a planet killing space station <yawn>. I really hope the success of Rogue One makes Disney understand that good stories are what will make the Star Wars franchise a success, not endlessly rehashing the formula of the original trilogy.

 

TFA does have lots of sequel setup, though. The trilogy looks to be on a more interesting path than just copying the OT.

 

Brings me to another thing I adore R1 for: In a world, where a movie is only worth as much as its sequel potential, it for once was a movie that doesn't set up a sequel. That was refreshing to see, especially after Fantastic Beasts indulged in that so disgustingly. It was beautiful to see a movie that knew it was over when it was over and just told a complete story.

[TheNewShmoo 71]

 

 underdog rebels fighting against the powerful empire and the obligatory jedi vs sith light saber battle in every movie. Thus we got another movie where the good guys destroy a planet killing space station <yawn>.

 

Yeah, I was a bit underwhelmed by the lack of originality in RotJ myself.

 

ROTJ was also a flawed movie in my opinion. Reusing the Death Star is one of my problems with it. I'm not one of the people who think everything in the original trilogy was awesome.

 

[Dagonet 7,246]

 

Brings me to another thing I adore R1 for: In a world, where a movie is only worth as much as its sequel potential, it for once was a movie that doesn't set up a sequel. That was refreshing to see, especially after Fantastic Beasts indulged in that so disgustingly. It was beautiful to see a movie that knew it was over when it was over and just told a complete story.

 

 

But Fantastic Beasts knew it wasn't over, it was always going to be a trilogy (which has been extended to five movies). So of course there's going to be world building and putting the pawns on the board.

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

 

 

Brings me to another thing I adore R1 for: In a world, where a movie is only worth as much as its sequel potential, it for once was a movie that doesn't set up a sequel. That was refreshing to see, especially after Fantastic Beasts indulged in that so disgustingly. It was beautiful to see a movie that knew it was over when it was over and just told a complete story.

 

 

But Fantastic Beasts knew it wasn't over, it was always going to be a trilogy (which has been extended to five movies). So of course there's going to be world building and putting the pawns on the board.

 

I know. Thats what didn't work. It could have been a great movie, but instead it has to set up the sequels which it does in a convoluted, disconnected way. 3 or 5 seperate "A Harry Potter story"-type movies would have worked a lot better. Maybe have a "Big end reaveal villain that didn't fit in at all" trilogy that takes the premise and sticks with it instead of tacking it on at the end because "Oh, we need to set up sequel".

 

Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the strong parts of the movie, but having a bad ending always hurts a movie more than other flaws in my opinion. My Harry potter-crazy girlfriend wasn't happy with media this year...

[Dagonet 7,246]

Oh the reveal was just confirmation for me to what I had started figuring out thanks to clues and things in the movie, so I guess that's maybe why I don't feel it's tacked on. It could've been introduced a bit better, but it wasn't bad really. 

 

I do wonder how Rowling experienced directly writing for the screen, it is a different *ahem beast. .

 

Your girlfriend didn't like the Cursed Child?

[Forresto 2,200]

    As for Chirrut and Jyn knocking out stormtroopers, Jyn was holding some sort've vibro baton that is probably very effective against metal based armor. Chirrut was hitting each stormtrooper four to five times and the whole point of his character was that he was imbuing each hit with the force so he was hitting VERY VERY HARD multiple times in precise spots.

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

Oh the reveal was just confirmation for me to what I had started figuring out thanks to clues and things in the movie, so I guess that's maybe why I don't feel it's tacked on. It could've been introduced a bit better, but it wasn't bad really. 

 

I do wonder how Rowling experienced directly writing for the screen, it is a different *ahem beast. .

 

Your girlfriend didn't like the Cursed Child?

She absolutely hated it and was pretty angry at me for recommending I'll trust her judgement there, Harry Potter is something I never really got into. For me it was just a nice little nostalgia thing.

 

I saw the hints and all that, they were done well, but I would have loved them a lot more if they had never directly connected to the story and were just left there to create a more coherent universe with later movies.

[TheNewShmoo 71]

This is crazy.   So many people dissing Episode 7.   Like - After episode 7 first came out everyone was praising it and there were very few naysayers.  Now it feels like everyone's opinion has changed.  Almost like it's the prequels all over again.   This is crazy.  It's like next year people will be trash talking Rogue one.  

 

Nothing has changed for myself. I don't hate TFA and I enjoyed watching it, but it is not a great movie. It reminds me of ROTJ in that despite some great parts, it has some glaring flaws that prevent me from loving it. When I was discussing TFA with my co-workers the Monday after I saw it I briefly mentioned my problems with Rey, the hyper-competent Mary Sue, and the way it rehashed a lot of ANH but I didn't belabor the point. Let's face it, many of us were just happy to finally have a new Star Wars movie that does not completely suck like the prequels and I did not want to be overly critical of it. I saved all my bitching and nitpicking for forums like this where all the other nerds hang out.

[TheNewShmoo 71]

For me the acting in TFA had more impact than R1. But the BIG deficiency in R1 was lack of John Williams. Don't get me wrong, movie composers are geniuses. JW is next level. My favorite scene in all the movies is the final Luke VS Vader in ROTJ. Not because of the visuals but because of the soundtrack. When that plays, it makes me feel like tbe whole galaxy is holding its breath watching Luke turn to the dark side.

Even after seeing TFA for the second time, watching the trailer would choke me up due to the score. R1 did not have this layer of emotional amplification.

Won't stop me seeing it again though .

 

I was surprised by how much I noticed the score in Rogue One, but not in a good way. It didn't feel like a Star Wars score to me and stuck out like a sore thumb. I don't want to be too critical of the composer since I understand he took the job at the last minute and only had a month to work on it, but I think the score for the Rebels tv show does a better job of sounding like Star Wars music. John Williams was sorely missed.

[markcsoul 2,135]

The score has grown on me a lot.

That being said it's still a decent step behind the original 6 scores and a small step behind TFA.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

 

For me the acting in TFA had more impact than R1. But the BIG deficiency in R1 was lack of John Williams. Don't get me wrong, movie composers are geniuses. JW is next level. My favorite scene in all the movies is the final Luke VS Vader in ROTJ. Not because of the visuals but because of the soundtrack. When that plays, it makes me feel like tbe whole galaxy is holding its breath watching Luke turn to the dark side.

Even after seeing TFA for the second time, watching the trailer would choke me up due to the score. R1 did not have this layer of emotional amplification.

Won't stop me seeing it again though .

 

I was surprised by how much I noticed the score in Rogue One, but not in a good way. It didn't feel like a Star Wars score to me and stuck out like a sore thumb. I don't want to be too critical of the composer since I understand he took the job at the last minute and only had a month to work on it, but I think the score for the Rebels tv show does a better job of sounding like Star Wars music. John Williams was sorely missed.

 

Oh I hated the music I think that went a long way to souring me on the movie, it was like having razors pushed into my ears.

[Dagonet 7,246]

I love how you never resort to hyperbole, hobo.