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Lord Tareq

With Star Destroyers such as these... (rogue one spoilers)

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Read David Weber's "Honor Harrington" and get back with me! 

 

Capital ships would NEVER be that close to one another.  

 

Heck, our modern day war planes hardly see each other when they are "engaged" let alone what a battle in space would really be like.  (yes, I realize we are talking about a fictional universe.)

 

Read Honor Harrington! 

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Read David Weber's "Honor Harrington" and get back with me! 

 

Capital ships would NEVER be that close to one another.  

 

Heck, our modern day war planes hardly see each other when they are "engaged" let alone what a battle in space would really be like.  (yes, I realize we are talking about a fictional universe.)

 

Read Honor Harrington! 

While a great book (series), Weber tries to use real world science in his books.  Star Wars does not, and I believe it is also weapon ranges some.  Star Wars energy weapons do not have the ranges Honor'verse ships do.

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Science, pffft, that stuff's for nerds.  Who needs it.   

 

-smirks- One of the reason I do like Star Wars is the liberties is takes with all that science fiction and turns it into a good ol' fashion romp.  The closer things get to reality, the more I'll just stick with reality.  The further they are, the more magnetic it becomes in my spare time.  So, gimme all those space spitfires, and up vs. down for ships, audible explosions in a vacuum, and the force (you can keep the jedi business if you like, though).  It's also why my ex-favourite property includes giant citadels on space triremes going through hell to break the FTL barrier and firing imploding plasma slugs the size of skyscrapers. 

 

What were we talking about?  Oh yeah, would a hammerhead with a title that negates the damage it takes from ramming (but not being rammed) be too weird to see, or price? Or is anyone actually expecting future shunting rules? 

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You guys understand that physics in star wars doesn't work like the physics in text books, right? Like, you can tell by the way fighters behave just like airplanes.

That argument actually makes the scene make LESS sense. The physics used by fighters in Star Wars acts as though there is some force acting in a very similar fashion to gravity. By inserting the rules for Star Wars physics as written so far, this scene never should have been able to happen. It would have been more akin to a tugboat pushing a battleship into another battleship, which has to have happened at some point in history and I'm fairly certain if one had sliced the other in half, we would have heard about it.

For those interested, the physics of Star Wars Space is simple: Gravity exerts visible and tangible effects in space even outside of a celestial body of significant mass. Space is linear, see fleets all lining up facing one axis (though this may change during combat.) Oxygen is in abundant supply in space. Sounds travel well in a vacuum.

To furthur sum that up super simple: Physics in Star Wars space resembles whatever can best simulate a WWII naval engagement or WWII air to air battle.

Furthermore, the hammerhead, upon contact with the star destroyer (see damage to Star destroyer) would have incurred similar or greater damage (see car ramming a tank) because the edge of the star destroyer is particularly durable (see other Star destroyer sliced in half.)

I loved the movie and this was the only galling moment in my opinion, so I've just started lying to myself and said you just couldn't see/they forget to add in post production, the nebulon b frigate and corellian corvette that helped push it too (with the corvette pushing from the left rearmost corner to assist with the pendulum slam!)

Loved the rest of the space battle it made me want to play Armada. Also, I did basic point math, and rebels used significantly more points AND chose scenario! They were totally cheating!!!

Edit: OH YEA!!! Rebels ALSO went FIRST, DESPITE the imp low bid!!

Edited by Gadgetron

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A lot of you guys are forgetting/dismissing the importance of Star Wars shield technology. Most of these things can be explained when you realize that the introduction of a basically magical "force field" that deflects attacks turns real world tactics on its head. Weapon ranges? Gone, now you need to be in close to insure most of your shots hit to overwhelm the "deflectors"(that's what they call them some of the time), otherwise they "recycle" and nothing has happened except you just expended energy for nothing. Hyperdrives now mean things must take a medieval style of combat with strongholds projecting power over less protected areas and a doctrine of retaliation over prevention(makes the Tarkin doctrine seem more logical).

 

Also ships in star wars don't seem to orbit they use: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Repulsorlift, to hover over the planet.

Edited by Teh HOBO

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I also felt like the capital ships qere letting the squadrons do all the work.

As for the ISD being weak. The. Ook stated the commanding officer became laid back and consider the planet as a retirement spot.

Also it was two ISD and a space station (shield gate) vs a mc75, two neb b, some corvettes and hammerheads and multi transports.

So a even match till vader rolls in and catches them wounds and hurt.

But again yhey should of shown the big shipps shooting at each other

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I absolutely love that Hammerhead ramming scene.  What a spunky little ship. 

Hope it got away.

Unfortunately it didn't. I remembered to keep an eye out for what happened to it when I saw it the second time. It's still there when the ISD goes through the shield gate.

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Read David Weber's "Honor Harrington" and get back with me! 

 

Capital ships would NEVER be that close to one another.  

 

 

These were garrison ships parked over a tropical paradise planet in an out-of-the-way system in an empire that was not at war.

 

I refer you to a small incident called Perl Harbor.

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Okay, can't believe I am going to go here:

 

So, you are the CO of said base and or SDs.  How/where would you have them positioned?

 

I guess, if we are going with the, "They can hover in place over a planet" you keep them close to the shield opening to support each other. 

 

Taking into account fairly "real" physics, ala orbiting; I would have my SDs, on opposite sides of the planet covering each hemisphere respectively.  I would also have 1-2 Squadrons of TIEs (from each SD) on CAP and also covering the "gaps" in between each SD. 

 

 

So, my fellow Armchair Admirals, how you would have covered the base in Rouge One, with 2 SDs?

Edited by Jut

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We can't assume competency here. The empire tends to promote those who are politically astute over those with military skill.

 

Additionally ,we don't know if the chain of command ties the ships to the base. The navy may give orders to the ships and imperial intelligence have command over the base. The garrison may even fall in a 3rd command structure.

 

This was a cushy posting at an imperial data warehouse.

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I was mistaken about the shield/sensor domes. Now that they are actually confirmed as shield domes this confirms my original post, it makes the ISD design even more terrible! What lunatic designed these ships?

 

Some other guy who really misses his daughter and had his wife killed by the Empire? Man, the Empire has to stop killing their scientists' wives.

 

 

Overall, I liked the movie. I felt like the first half was a complete waste. It was cool that they had Saw Gerrerra and all, but his plot arc went NOWHERE. Seriously. Explain that whole thing with the pilot in five minutes, then develop the characters we actually care about and will never see again. . .'cause, y'know, they all die. That was my biggest gripe. I felt nothing because you don't have time to grow attached to the characters. Had the first part of the movie been tightened up, we could have gotten to know them more.

 

As was said earlier, this movie felt drastically different from the others. You saw a realistic depiction of what the Rebellion would look like. Desperate, willing to do anything (including spying, murder and sabotage). And I think a lot of the criticism leveled at the Imperials is readily explained by, as some have said, the fact that the galaxy was at peace. Why would soldiers at a secret base expect to be attacked by an enemy that doesn't exist yet? This is the first time the Rebels have led an open, military attack.

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You guys understand that physics in star wars doesn't work like the physics in text books, right? Like, you can tell by the way fighters behave just like airplanes.

 

Also... space-wizards may also be worth a mention.

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Okay, can't believe I am going to go here:

 

So, you are the CO of said base and or SDs.  How/where would you have them positioned?

 

I guess, if we are going with the, "They can hover in place over a planet" you keep them close to the shield opening to support each other. 

 

Taking into account fairly "real" physics, ala orbiting; I would have my SDs, on opposite sides of the planet covering each hemisphere respectively.  I would also have 1-2 Squadrons of TIEs (from each SD) on CAP and also covering the "gaps" in between each SD. 

 

 

So, my fellow Armchair Admirals, how you would have covered the base in Rouge One, with 2 SDs?

Next to the shield gate so that I can stop people from breaking in, which appears to be the tactics of the Empire. Splitting them up and putting one on the other side of the planet where there's nothing to defend seems silly.

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As others have noted by now, on second viewing I realized those ISDs are firing CONSTANTLY during the space battle.  I have to assume that most of the damage they do occurs off screen.

 

Second, and this is important, they make a point to clearly note that all engines are offline on the disabled Star Destroyer.  There is quite a bit of setup for the ISD collision to show the physics behind it, and it makes a lot of sense on second viewing if you missed all the cues the first time.

 

The only question I have, a question which ought to have been answered at least twice during the film, is why the bombers didn't make an effort to bomb the TIE hangar facilities on Eadu or on the orbital platform at Scarif.  In both cases they were relatively undefended at least duringn the initial surprise assault.

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were just missing a scene.

 

Its obvious the commanding imperial officers in space were so completely caught off guard by the attack that they did not know what the proper response should have been. They in standard imperial arrogance casually sought guidance from their Superior officers. This is why the imperials were so slow to act in space in pretty much every way. Initial engagement, fighter launch, destroyer engagement etc...

 

or it was a sub par movie 6/10 and the writing was alright (despite the near endless praise i see for it)

that Vader scene was tight though XD

They sorta have this scene. It's when Krenic is on-world in the control tower and all of the rebel bombs suddenly light up their view of the ground. Everyone just stands there looking dumb and useless when he shouts "what are you, blind? Deploy the garrison." But yes, I agree that a similar space scene would have helped. I disagree with you rating however. I find your lack of enthusiasm disturbing. Donnie Yen easily makes it at least an 8

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 I would also have 1-2 Squadrons of TIEs (from each SD) on CAP and also covering the "gaps" in between each SD.

 

Do you realize how many TIE's that would be (2=24, 4=48).  Each ISD has 6 squadrons, so you'd want to put 1/3 of their TIE's on CAP?  The maintenance for keeping that many TIE's flying non-stop would add a ton of wear&tear as well as cost in fuel and spare parts.  Add that to pilot fatigue. 

 

Remember that the true civil war had not started until this battle really.  They were at less of a war stance then we were at Pearl Harbor.  There was no need for that kind of deployment at a peaceful and secure location.  All they had to do was keep the gate safe from pirate and insurgent raids, and 2 ISD's would discourage that pretty much by simply being there.  The Rebel attack was (I believe) the bulk of their combat forces at the time, and they were ready for a fight.  Probably not something the garrison ships would have been prepared nor drilled for.

Edited by Salted Diamond

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Remember that the true civil war had not started until this battle really.  They were at less of a war stance then we were at Pearl Harbor.  There was no need for that kind of deployment at a peaceful and secure location.  All they had to do was keep the gate safe from pirate and insurgent raids, and 2 ISD's would discourage that pretty much by simply being there.  The Rebel attack was (I believe) the bulk of their combat forces at the time, and they were ready for a fight.  Probably not something the garrison ships would have been prepared nor drilled for.

 

 

This.

 

I'm flabbergasted how many people react to this battle with incredulity - 'how can such a small force have been so effective', in a movie coming out the very same month as we've so recently been inundated with Pearl Harbor remembrances.

 

Seriously, folks - fighters and warships are expensive to staff, supply, and maintain.  You cannot keep them at 'battle stations, ready for action' footing for very long - you try that 24/7 for a week and you're going to break something.  And we're talking a base here that isn't even a major fleet center or headquarters - it amounts to a library archive.  These aren't going to be the 'best and brightest' assigned there, in the first place.

 

Given the element of surprise, it's a wonder the battle didn't go worse for the Empire...

Edited by xanderf

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