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Asokn

Consistently losing the first scenario, hmmmm

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Hi,

This is more of a cry for help than an actual discussion point but I've played the first scenario in the base set about a dozen times and lost all but one.

I play solo as Roland and each time get to

SPOILERS

the ghoul priest

END OF SPOILERS

and then I just get walloped. I've tried taking time to build up a good character and I've tried using skills etc but to no avail. I'm pretty confident I'm getting all of the rules right so there's no easy excuse for my failure there, does anyone have any particular hints and tips? I understand that the difficulty really ramps up in the second and third scenarios so I've no idea how I'll cope with them!

Thanks,

Asokn

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Try playing with two investigators? From what I've seen, it just seems like it would be harder to keep your bases covered with only one. From issues with having a weakness in an area that isn't balanced by another character to a run of bad luck having much worse consequences. A second investigator allows for more compensation of bad stuff. 

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Roland should be having a fairly easy time with monsters, even the Elite baddies. With a Weapon in hand, like the Machete or a handgun, he can be doing 2 damage per attack. With 3 attacks a turn, you're getting 6 damage, which is enough to kill him, provided you can commit enough cards to the test. Or with Lita, or committing Vicious Blow, you can do even more damage per attack.

Have you read the Learn to Play manual thoroughly about combat, evasion, and engagement? It's a very confusing part of this game and could be contributing to misunderstanding and difficulty with bosses.

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What exactly is going wrong? I assume, you prepare for the battle you know will come and start it by advancing the Act deck with clues?

In that case you should act before the enemy and have three actions to kill it, which is usually enough with Roland...

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Are you advancing the Act (spawning him) at the end of the round as indicated? I've seen a lot of people mess that up and spawn him just before the enemy phase instead.

Even if you did play it wrong, I don't see how Roland would have a 1\12 success rate. He can take one attack easily and then have 3 actions to kill him next round. Retaliate is tough but you should have Physical Training (note that you can use it as many times per attack as you can pay for) and/or plenty of combat icon cards to commit to the test. I make sure I'm at 8 combat for all attacks ensuring that only Tentacles will miss (assuming standard mode difficulty).

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I'm advancing the Act deck at the end of the round. I find the problem is more the retaliate keyword which often means that I don't in reality get three attacks to make the kill; I've usually got one or two damage or horror by the time I fight him and therefore a couple of missed attacks means I get killed before I can finish him off.

Edited by Asokn

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I'm advancing the Act deck at the end of the round. I find the problem is more the retaliate keyword which often means that I don't in reality get three attacks to make the kill; I've usually got one or two damage or horror by the time I fight him and therefore a couple of missed attacks means I get killed before I can finish him off.

What boosts are you using? Are you committing enough skill icons to get you reliably to +2, +4 before the chaos draw? At that point it's quite unusual to fail that many tests. And make sure the Chaos Bag is set up appropriately.

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Don't go all out on the attack with the Ghoul Priest unless you have the assets and resources to guarantee success on all attacks. A decent weapon is a must as 5 successful hits with no disruptions can be a bit tricky whereas 2-3 is manageable.

 

I've found the best tactic is to start off by trying to evade. A successful evade will exhaust it such that you are then free to attack without triggering the retaliate on a failure or head over for a chat with Lita (and hopefully convince her to assist).

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even if you can't get the +1 to strength, you can always bank on that +1 damage which, keep in mind, is accumulative with your weapons. so, any gun, or the Machete with only 1 mob engaged with you is going to be a +2 to damage, which is 2 bullets/2 hacks in a solo campaign.

 

*spoiler

I was lucky enough to get Lita and Roland's .38 on the 3rd scenario in my opening hand, which made things much easier. was able to put a bullet between Wolfman's eyes, but not able to finish off the masked hunter before we disrupted the ritual. If I was going to do an epic long campaign-quest with Roland, having Lita out would be a treat in any scenario, except at that point he would start at with least -3 sanity due to trauma, and that's if I didn't lose any with his signature weakness.

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It takes more than 2 machete/gun shots for GP. They give a +1 damage (so 2 total). The big card for Roland and Skids in those situations is Vicious Blow. +1 combat and +1 damage.

My copies seem to have a strange link with the tentacles token but maybe I just got one of those cursed sets... :)

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It takes more than 2 machete/gun shots for GP. They give a +1 damage (so 2 total). The big card for Roland and Skids in those situations is Vicious Blow. +1 combat and +1 damage.

My copies seem to have a strange link with the tentacles token but maybe I just got one of those cursed sets... :)

iGniGhted was including Lita and a weapon.

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even if you can't get the +1 to strength, you can always bank on that +1 damage which, keep in mind, is accumulative with your weapons. so, any gun, or the Machete with only 1 mob engaged with you is going to be a +2 to damage, which is 2 bullets/2 hacks in a solo campaign.

 

*spoiler

I was lucky enough to get Lita and Roland's .38 on the 3rd scenario in my opening hand, which made things much easier. was able to put a bullet between Wolfman's eyes, but not able to finish off the masked hunter before we disrupted the ritual. If I was going to do an epic long campaign-quest with Roland, having Lita out would be a treat in any scenario, except at that point he would start at with least -3 sanity due to trauma, and that's if I didn't lose any with his signature weakness.

Just checking you weren't counting Lita's bonus against Wolfman? Lita's plus 1 damage only applies to Monsters, and though he's got some issues, he's still human!

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Roland would have trouble getting to Lita (low agility and average intelligence), so you need to rely on your own deck for The Gathering. So you need a weapon and your best friend the Beat Cop (he gives you +1 fight). With both, you have 6 fight against the Ghoul Priest's 4 (which means, assuming at most 1 other Ghoul with you, you fail only on -3, -4 and tentacle) and you only need to succeed twice (assuming you get the +1 damage), since you can discard the Cop to finish the Priest. If you don't have the Cop, you'll need to commit cards to cover that +1 (there are 2 -2's, the tablet and possibly the 2 skulls that can screw you if you don't, making your chances of success about even instead of more than 75%).

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Well I played yesterday with Roland and maybe I was lucky but I found 45 pistole, the cop and machete. So I beated the boss with two actions. I've never won with Daisy but Roland with some intellect skill cards is most easy to play.

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Well I played yesterday with Roland and maybe I was lucky but I found 45 pistole, the cop and machete. So I beated the boss with two actions. I've never won with Daisy but Roland with some intellect skill cards is most easy to play.

Did you have Lita or use the Vicious Blow skill card? Or did you use the cop's free trigger?

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Well I played yesterday with Roland and maybe I was lucky but I found 45 pistole, the cop and machete. So I beated the boss with two actions. I've never won with Daisy but Roland with some intellect skill cards is most easy to play.

Just to be clear, you can't use the machete and the 45 on the same attack since they both require an action to initiate a modified fight action.

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Well I played yesterday with Roland and maybe I was lucky but I found 45 pistole, the cop and machete. So I beated the boss with two actions. I've never won with Daisy but Roland with some intellect skill cards is most easy to play.

Just to be clear, you can't use the machete and the 45 on the same attack since they both require an action to initiate a modified fight action.

Yeah, but he wouldn't need to, two attack actions from either the .45, or the machete (assuming you're only engaged with him), plus one extra damage from discarding the Beat Cop. Dead Ghoul Priest!

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Well I played yesterday with Roland and maybe I was lucky but I found 45 pistole, the cop and machete. So I beated the boss with two actions. I've never won with Daisy but Roland with some intellect skill cards is most easy to play.

Just to be clear, you can't use the machete and the 45 on the same attack since they both require an action to initiate a modified fight action.

 

So this is not so clear. If I had used only the 45 it would cost one action (although the pistole has an action icon) and not two actions right? So why the modified fight action don't sum up in case of using machete in second hand? I was sure that the icons just take one action in total as used for fight. Sorry If this is confusing:)

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So this is not so clear. If I had used only the 45 it would cost one action (although the pistole has an action icon) and not two actions right? So why the modified fight action don't sum up in case of using machete in second hand? I was sure that the icons just take one action in total as used for fight. Sorry If this is confusing:)

You get to take only *one* action at a time. Actions are Move, Fight, Investigate etc., but using the Action Trigger (the black arrow) is also an action on its own.

When you want to use, say, the Machete in a Fight, you do *not* use a standard Fight Action, but the Action Trigger on the Machete card. This Trigger then initiates a modified Fight action.

You have to decide which Action Trigger (or regular Option) you want to spend an action on. Unless some day there would be a card that allows to "chain" multiple Action Trigger.

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So this is not so clear. If I had used only the 45 it would cost one action (although the pistole has an action icon) and not two actions right? So why the modified fight action don't sum up in case of using machete in second hand? I was sure that the icons just take one action in total as used for fight. Sorry If this is confusing:)

You get to take only *one* action at a time. Actions are Move, Fight, Investigate etc., but using the Action Trigger (the black arrow) is also an action on its own.

When you want to use, say, the Machete in a Fight, you do *not* use a standard Fight Action, but the Action Trigger on the Machete card. This Trigger then initiates a modified Fight action.

You have to decide which Action Trigger (or regular Option) you want to spend an action on. Unless some day there would be a card that allows to "chain" multiple Action Trigger.

 

Ok so this is "either... or..." regarding weapons. and it's not possible to spent two ctions to make a combo? (machete and the 45) I was thinking about AH board game when it's possible to use two weapons from two hands and I was wrong then:))

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There is no rule that suggests that this is possible. The Action Trigger is *not* a cost. It is a custom action and an addition to the general actions everyone normally gets.

I think of it this way:

"Hey, this nice action is burning a hole in my pocket! What could I spend it on? Investigation perhaps? No, I am engaged with an enemy, it would hurt me. Fighting then? No, how about this little arrow here? Yes, I think I will do that. Ok, action spent, now what does it do? Ok, I get to do a free Fight Action with bonus and more damage. Yay, it worked. But oh noes, the enemy is still alive! Good thing I have one more action left, so what will I do?"

I know this sounds a bit childish and dumb, but there is a reason - with complex rules that have complex interactions, it is best not to be clever. Be dumb and unimaginative. Follow instructions to the letter. Do not apply common sense. Do exactly what the rules or the cards say, no more, no less. Go step by step. Try not to interpret or see the big picture.

And then, once you really got it down and all the parts are in order and working, you start to get creative and think of clever things to do with the rules.

When I played the first couple of times, I never made it through the first scenario. Not because it was so hard, but I always stumbled across something I did wrong or has to look up and then always reset the game to do it right. And I after dozens of games still find stuff I never thought of or rules I have to look up...

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There is no rule that suggests that this is possible. The Action Trigger is *not* a cost. It is a custom action and an addition to the general actions everyone normally gets.

I think of it this way:

"Hey, this nice action is burning a hole in my pocket! What could I spend it on? Investigation perhaps? No, I am engaged with an enemy, it would hurt me. Fighting then? No, how about this little arrow here? Yes, I think I will do that. Ok, action spent, now what does it do? Ok, I get to do a free Fight Action with bonus and more damage. Yay, it worked. But oh noes, the enemy is still alive! Good thing I have one more action left, so what will I do?"

I know this sounds a bit childish and dumb, but there is a reason - with complex rules that have complex interactions, it is best not to be clever. Be dumb and unimaginative. Follow instructions to the letter. Do not apply common sense. Do exactly what the rules or the cards say, no more, no less. Go step by step. Try not to interpret or see the big picture.

And then, once you really got it down and all the parts are in order and working, you start to get creative and think of clever things to do with the rules.

When I played the first couple of times, I never made it through the first scenario. Not because it was so hard, but I always stumbled across something I did wrong or has to look up and then always reset the game to do it right. And I after dozens of games still find stuff I never thought of or rules I have to look up...

 

You are right in everything you say, except the Action Trigger is a cost.  You can find it under Abilities, specifically Triggered Abilities - Also under Costs.  Just want to make sure this is clear, as if there was ever an ability that was "When/If you pay a cost..." or something like that dealing with paying a cost, thees abilities would trigger it.

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Perhaps the way it was worded is what is making it unclear. "Just to be clear, you can't use the machete and the 45 on the same attack since they both require an action to initiate a modified fight action."

 

That use of 'action' at the end there is better described as a 'modified fight ability'. Don't think of it as an action.

 

Just to break it all down, you as a player have three actions. You can use one of those actions to, say, gain a resource, to move etc. These aren't abilities - an ability is something written on a card. One of the actions you can take is to activate an 'Action Trigger' on a card -- this is the arrow symbol thing. You use your action on the arrow, maybe pay some further costs, then there'll be a colon ( :  ) and you get to apply the rest of that ability. If the ability includes the bold fight, it is treated as a fight action only in terms of restrictions and benefits that the basic fight action has (no Attacks of Opportunity, for example).

 

Running through the .45 card then, 

 [ARROW] Spend 1 ammo: Fight. You get +1 [FIST] for this attack. This attack deals +1 damage.

The play uses their action to trigger the action ability (arrow symbol) and also must remove 1 ammo from the card. Once all that is achieved, we get to use the ability. It doesn't suffer Attacks of Opportunity and we can intitiate a skill test versus an enemy's combat difficulty (because this ability follows 'fight action' rules). During our test, we get to increase our combat by 1. If successful, we deal 1 extra damage.

 

Note that that there is no other window during all that during which we can do other actions -- this is why we couldn't, for example, also throw the benefits of a machete ability into the mix. Then note that there IS a window (two, in fact) in which we can use free trigger abilities (the lightning symbol). These show up during the skill test (see p26, RR) and allow us to get the benefits of cards like Physical Training.

Edited by Noaloha

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